Yes, you have to have had, and passed, a forklift training course to operate forklift. Same for a motorized pallet jack. Insurance is the main reason. They are dangerous pieces of heavy equipment. As a business, you sure as hell don't want someone who can barely point their 11 year old Kia down the road without hitting something driving one. The problem is not with the forklift regs, it is with the manager for not keeping someone in the store who can run one.
Very Upset With Harbor Freight....
- Thread starter freudianfloyd
- Start date
redsand187
Well-known member
To be fair, that $40 cheap Chinese grinder at harbor freight is a major POS compared to $80 Chinese grinder at Home Depot. Not everything made is China is a major piece of ****. (My main business is dealing with Chinese manufactures.) They are willing to build something to price point that really drops quality and/or usability to the point you have to wonder if it's the same item any more.
Grinders are actually a great example. I have a couple 4.5" DeWalt grinders. Not wanting to spend $80-$100ea to get a couple more to run quick strip discs I bought the 2 "top of the line," 4.5" grinders with the paddle switch from HF, I might have paid $25-$30ea for them after discounts. They are only 6amp, and I think that is an optimistic rating at that. You can also feel vibration in the gearboxes like the machining is probably subpar.
Pretty much anything that requires machining during manufacturing is going to be garbage from harbor freight. In China, some factories use state of the art CNC machines with the operators just overseeing the programs, most factories use quality manual machines with trained operators actually running them... then places that make tools for Harbor Freight and the like, use old clapped out hand-me-down machines with untrained operators.
Harbor Freight runs bids for almost everything and goes with the cheapest manufacture. They have very little quality control or process oversight. Factories that build, what a lot of people assume are cheap tools like Ryobi, are actually owned and ran by Techtronic Industries, who own dozens of factories dedicated to building tools, they engineer everything from the ground up, and implement all the proper processes and quality control, because ultimately, they are putting a brand name they own on the tool. They are able to build actual assembly lines suited to building specific tools.
Factories that build stuff for Harbor Freight and other similar outlets can't do that, because one day they might be building grinders, the next they are building steam cleaners, the next they are assembling box fans, then maybe some other random power tool.
Not to say that TTI is the end all be all when it comes to manufacturing, but when you compare their products to harbor freight's. It's like comparing a cadillac to a original vw beetle.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
Yes, customer service is very rare today.
You should have pulled the sexism/ethic/color card.
On a serious note, when I got my forklift, I learned that nowadays you have to be trained and certified to operate a forklift. I'm sure insurance, unions and our favorite OSHA had something to do with that.
It's been that way for over 3 decades. You need licenses for forklifts or any other motorized ride on material handlers/stock pickers and many powered walk behind material handlers.
You may need a license for any Aerial Work Platform like a vertical man lift or articulated boom lift, depending on the type. You need proof of training for all man lifts. OSHA does not require anything for scissor lifts as they do not fall under the category that the other lifts do. They are considered to be a type of scaffold and as such fall under a different requirement.
Tommy
nh_yota
Well-known member
Harbor Freight should import their employees from China like the rest of their stuff.
Last I checked, HF hires American workers, which in the end, is an American job.
A crappy job for sure, but most jobs today, are crappy, even for places selling expensive products.
The truly sad thing, is, with the Chinese worker, the service might be better.
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nh_yota
Well-known member
Yeah that was my point, although it was said with tongue in cheek.
west_perf
Well-known member
I'm not convinced any of the brands that come from China, related to tool manufacturers, have a lot (or any) quality oversight.
BIL is a PhD in quality control specifically testing the MTBF on many of these product lines, and like any manufacturing process, they build to a median MTBF design goal OR cost basis. (Mean-time-between-failure aka service life). This is speculation on my part, but I suspect HF doesn't care about MTBF so much because the unit costs are so low for their items, they can just replace the ones that fail within warranty for cheaper than designing a quality product. I doubt it's any different for the major brands.
Still doesn't change the fact that cheap Chinese garbage is destroying the US economy. I'm looking forward to the day (and it will come, if it's not already close at hand) that US quality manufacturing is at or near cost parity, with respect to total supply chain costs, including inventory, shipping, storage, and lead times. The bad side effect of cheap oil is that the ocean freight is much cheaper than it used to be, making increased wages in China offset by lower shipping costs.
Another example - I needed a car jack, both the Arcan and HF aluminum ones are made in China. Arcan is supposedly a little better quality, but why pay more if I'm simply sending more money there? On my wishlist is a Milwaukee jack, made in the good ol USA that I can pass down to my son one day, instead of a cheap Chinese made jack that will wind up in a landfill in 10 years because the seals blew out and the cylinder walls are too scored out.
BIL is a PhD in quality control specifically testing the MTBF on many of these product lines, and like any manufacturing process, they build to a median MTBF design goal OR cost basis. (Mean-time-between-failure aka service life). This is speculation on my part, but I suspect HF doesn't care about MTBF so much because the unit costs are so low for their items, they can just replace the ones that fail within warranty for cheaper than designing a quality product. I doubt it's any different for the major brands.
Still doesn't change the fact that cheap Chinese garbage is destroying the US economy. I'm looking forward to the day (and it will come, if it's not already close at hand) that US quality manufacturing is at or near cost parity, with respect to total supply chain costs, including inventory, shipping, storage, and lead times. The bad side effect of cheap oil is that the ocean freight is much cheaper than it used to be, making increased wages in China offset by lower shipping costs.
Another example - I needed a car jack, both the Arcan and HF aluminum ones are made in China. Arcan is supposedly a little better quality, but why pay more if I'm simply sending more money there? On my wishlist is a Milwaukee jack, made in the good ol USA that I can pass down to my son one day, instead of a cheap Chinese made jack that will wind up in a landfill in 10 years because the seals blew out and the cylinder walls are too scored out.
redsand187
Well-known member
Search YouTube for tool tear downs. You realize 95% of consumer items and tools are made in China.
Like I said, I own a business where I deal with Chinese factories, there is a wide variety of the level of quality of manufacturing. I also have experience in USA manufacturing including building parts for some of the largest aerospace companies. I have a former colleague who owns an injection molding factory in the USA, he also has partnered with half a dozen Chinese factories where he has helped implement processes to help his customers lower costs for larger less time sensitive projects.
I came from a automotive background and am a tool guy. I work 10-15 hours at harbor freight for fun. It's nice to get out and help people with tools. It helps keep me sane by driving me crazy in a completely different way than the stress of my business.
Look at Apple products for example. A premium products noted for its quality and reliability, made in China. Percision aluminum machining, liquid metal, some of the most advanced glass technologies. Tolerances in the hundredths of a millimeter. They actual computer analyze components and fit them based on tolerance requirements. The cases of a phone can have extremely small variances, so can the front panel assemblies, they don't just slap random pieces together, they find the ones that will fit the best.
This is in multiple contractors facilities none actually owned by Apple. Those same companies have other factories and assembly lines where they build competing products with varying degrees of quality.
Most people have no idea how manufacturing works. There are many things made overseas not because of cost, but because of quality and availability. Some stuff is just not possible to be built in the USA.
Wanna Ride
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2010
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- 2,790
Fruedianfloyd; without the crate, the 44" box is 42" wide (without the handles), 33' tall (without casters) 39.5" tall (with casters) and 17.5" deep (front to back). Well, at least that's the dimensions of my HF 44 (wrinkle finish), which is about 6-8 years old. I can only guess the new ones are the same.
As for what happened at the store, I don't think it's necessarily an HF issue, it's more of a crappy employee issue. They work everywhere.
As for what happened at the store, I don't think it's necessarily an HF issue, it's more of a crappy employee issue. They work everywhere.
btdobie
Well-known member
Last time I picked up something big from HF (trailer) I called ahead to make sure I could get it. My nearest is 1.5 hours away.
Motorman55
Well-known member
Life's not perfect and neither are people. Go back with your trailer or call ahead and make sure its ready for p/u. Understand that you were dealing with women that likely do not have a license to drive a forklift and/or were following store policy as they understand it.
I've never had any problems with HF. Their people have always been nice to me. I've purchased from 4 different stores in New Jersey, (Clifton/Passaic, Saddle Brook, Toms River/Brick and their newest store near me in Parsippany.) and have no complaints.
I've never had any problems with HF. Their people have always been nice to me. I've purchased from 4 different stores in New Jersey, (Clifton/Passaic, Saddle Brook, Toms River/Brick and their newest store near me in Parsippany.) and have no complaints.
fitz11
Well-known member
I worked at harbor freight for a while and this exact issue happened a few times. The issue is that they offered the forklift training class once a year. If a new manager was hired they had to wait for the normal training before they were allowed to runt the forklift. The toolboxes are good sellers and take up a lot of space so they were usually stacked 4 high. We tried our best to accommodate large item purchases every hour the store was open but sometimes it didn't happen. 99% of customers were ok and understood the situation because we told them the exact reason and offered to hold the item for them until the next day and offer some sort of discount.
I never bought a trailer from HF. They offer those already put together, so you can just tow it home?
Though I imagine they'd use a HF adjustable wrench to put it together so I'd probably want to do it myself.
Cato
Well-known member
Wow, the outrage! You pay extra to shop at Nordstrom and expect some basic service.
oh, you were at Harbor Freight...never mind.
oh, you were at Harbor Freight...never mind.
Parkershop
Active member
I'm kind of liking that lime-green rule someone mentioned early in the thread. Best thing I've gotten from HF is the sanding station (green!) - the only downside is you have to remove a dozen screws to change the paper, so you end up leaving that metal off.
FullRaceMerc
Well-known member
Wait a minute. Men & women are identical. What could those men possibly do that the women can't?
The average wage in China is now $4700 per year.
Sounds like America has a great future ahead of it.
Why is our economy "destroyed"? The unemployment rate is 5%, the DOW is 17,000 and Corporations report record profits.
If people don't have money to spend, is because they don't want pay workers, including those working in factories, you are certain are coming back.
They are not coming back ever.
Very good point, that the Chinese have the capability to build extremely high quality products, but just like everywhere else, it comes at a price.
No one would want to pay $600 for an iphone, that fell apart after a year.
On the other hand, if someone pays $19 for an electric angle grinder, it might be unreasonable to expect that it will last 30 years.
As others have said, the most likely issue to the OP's problem was that there was no store staff there that had a license to operate the fork truck. This isn't an issue specific to HF, as many large big box stores just hire the least qualified workers at the lowest wage they can. I don't blame China for making low quality products, as they can certainly make very high quality products at an appropriately higher price. It's not fully the big box stores fault either for only selling the cheapest quality lowest cost products. The problem is that the American population keeps BUYING those inferior products instead of the costlier products made in the USA. If nobody bought that cheap tool, the store would only stock the expensive tool that people are buying. The root cause IMHO is that the general population places no value on quality, only the lowest price.
rant :=off
Brian
rant :=off
Brian
encantofred
Well-known member
i recently bought another 56" and 44" box from HF. i called ahead of time to make sure they were in stock. i also asked if they would uncrate them and let me inspect them.
when i got there, they uncrated them, let me inspect them, then they gently loaded them into my 20' enclosed car hauler with a smile. that way all i had to do was roll them off after putting the handles on and put them in my shop. and they kept the crating so i didnt have to dispose of it.
easy as pie
YMMV
tom
when i got there, they uncrated them, let me inspect them, then they gently loaded them into my 20' enclosed car hauler with a smile. that way all i had to do was roll them off after putting the handles on and put them in my shop. and they kept the crating so i didnt have to dispose of it.
easy as pie
YMMV
tom
encantofred
Well-known member
btw, i went to china for 20 years and spent time in many factories. the quality is what you specify and monitor (and pay for). it was as good or better than the factories i used in other countries including the usa.
tom
tom
Cato
Well-known member
I've heard that a lot. And, that explains why you might come across a good, solid Chinese tool. I have some Husky wrenches which are just as good as Snap On, but at 1/10th of the price. It's all profit driven in China. That's why they get so much hate from Americans, but love from our wallets. In America, there is some element of "craftsmanship" but that is not the rule and we do have plenty of crappy tools (eg RP Craftsman ratchets).
Snap On is a successful, profit driven company, just like the rest, but then they have a higher end, but smaller professional market, that can and will pay their expensive prices.
Nothing wrong with that.
Harbor Freight import tools, for a mass market, of people who need to get work done, but don't usually have the money for expensive tools.
Nothing wrong with that either.
OP
freudianfloyd
Well-known member
Last update....
First, the girl that said she didn't want to move all the stuff in the way was allowed to operate the fork truck, she mentioned using it to load it into my vehicle, she just didn't want to.
As for the update, we got home from our trip today, and on our way back we deive right through the area where that particular Harbor Freight was. The district manager told my wife he set my box aside as well as put a $50 gift card and $20 off coupon with it for me.
The funny part is I only had our Denali with 8 kids plus my wife in it. I bought that cargo carrier the first day for our luggage, and didnt know if it would hold the toolbox or not, but really didnt want to drive back down there. So i stuffed the luggage around the kids feet, and backed my suv basket up to the loading dock. The guy on the fork truck said "do you really want to put it on there"
I said "you guys sell this thing and say its rated for 500lbs, so I hope it can hold half that". He didnt say a word, just set the toolbox on it and deove back into the warehouse and closed the door. I put some ratchet straps on it and away I went. Then my wofe and I unloaded it out of the basket and rolled it into the garage. It easily wouldve fit in the vehicle I drove the first time I went to pick it up.
First, the girl that said she didn't want to move all the stuff in the way was allowed to operate the fork truck, she mentioned using it to load it into my vehicle, she just didn't want to.
As for the update, we got home from our trip today, and on our way back we deive right through the area where that particular Harbor Freight was. The district manager told my wife he set my box aside as well as put a $50 gift card and $20 off coupon with it for me.
The funny part is I only had our Denali with 8 kids plus my wife in it. I bought that cargo carrier the first day for our luggage, and didnt know if it would hold the toolbox or not, but really didnt want to drive back down there. So i stuffed the luggage around the kids feet, and backed my suv basket up to the loading dock. The guy on the fork truck said "do you really want to put it on there"
I said "you guys sell this thing and say its rated for 500lbs, so I hope it can hold half that". He didnt say a word, just set the toolbox on it and deove back into the warehouse and closed the door. I put some ratchet straps on it and away I went. Then my wofe and I unloaded it out of the basket and rolled it into the garage. It easily wouldve fit in the vehicle I drove the first time I went to pick it up.
Cato
Well-known member
What does bother me is that most "professionals" can't pay Snap On's prices. Much of Snap On's business model is based on credit. But those professionals are grown men and can make their own decisions in life.
What does bother me is that most "professionals" can't pay Snap On's prices. Much of Snap On's business model is based on credit. But those professionals are grown men and can make their own decisions in life.
Why are you bothered by what other do with their money? just curious.
It's likely, that if a doctor was starting his own practice, he would have to borrow the money for his equipment, as well.
Personally, I get why professional mechanics, buy more expensive professional quality tools, verses Sears, or HF.
Aren't tool purchases for them are tax deductible, as well?
Wanna Ride
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2010
- Messages
- 2,790
Some of you guys have a tendency to get (or troll) way off topic. This wasn't an HF vs Snap On thread. Not a global economy thread, not a Chinese factory worker thread, and not a DIY'er vs Professional Technician tool preference thread. There's plenty of threads based around those debates, maybe visit those. If you want to argue with each other, go ahead, knock yourself out, but do it in private messages. Geez...
I read the first page, then read the last page... and was like WTF, over?
We went from someone frustrated at HF to all these other issues that are discussed ad nauseum on this forum.
OP
freudianfloyd
Well-known member
Of all the "great" threads I've started somehow this one keeps going albeit far off topic, I just like seeing my thread pop up on the New Posts page.
btdobie
Well-known member
I never bought a trailer from HF. They offer those already put together, so you can just tow it home?
Though I imagine they'd use a HF adjustable wrench to put it together so I'd probably want to do it myself.
No, they come disassemble in 2 cardboard boxes, but I have had a similar experience to OP there before. If you get a lazy worker who doesn't want to dig out a heavy box, they will try to give an excuse why you should come back later (when they're not working). The trailers themselves are fine if you take your time putting it together, make sure the frame is perfectly square, and the axel is straight.
There are extremists on here.
Comparing SO to HF is like comparing Scarlett Johanson to Roseanne Barr. There are lots of options between SO and HF.
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Crazyjake8493
Well-known member
I've had both good and bad experiences at HF. Bought my 4 drawer tool cart on a busy day and before I even finished paying for my stuff a guy had one on a hand cart waiting for me at the door. I've also been 3rd or 4th in line and waited so long I almost set my stuff down and left.
Sometimes it's the customer, sometimes it's the employee. I wouldn't blame a new person for trying their best to do their job, and I wouldn't blame a customer for trying to get what they came there for. But I do see a lot of lazy employees that don't want to have to lift an extra finger. And I've also seen customers come into the store on Sunday 10 minutes before they close to buy a big toolbox and a bunch of other stuff and demand excellent service when they're ready to close.
I used to work at both Home Depot and Lowes and witnessed plenty of similar situations there. If some guy comes in 5 minutes before closing because he was in the middle of fixing a plumbing leak and something broke or he needed a different tool, I'd be glad to help him. If someone comes in at the same time needing enough stuff to build an entire garage the next morning when they could've went there earlier in the day, I'd be glad to try and help, but don't get upset when there's only three people working and the only one with a fork truck license is busy with something else.
Sometimes it's the customer, sometimes it's the employee. I wouldn't blame a new person for trying their best to do their job, and I wouldn't blame a customer for trying to get what they came there for. But I do see a lot of lazy employees that don't want to have to lift an extra finger. And I've also seen customers come into the store on Sunday 10 minutes before they close to buy a big toolbox and a bunch of other stuff and demand excellent service when they're ready to close.
I used to work at both Home Depot and Lowes and witnessed plenty of similar situations there. If some guy comes in 5 minutes before closing because he was in the middle of fixing a plumbing leak and something broke or he needed a different tool, I'd be glad to help him. If someone comes in at the same time needing enough stuff to build an entire garage the next morning when they could've went there earlier in the day, I'd be glad to try and help, but don't get upset when there's only three people working and the only one with a fork truck license is busy with something else.
Had a good experience this weekend. HF had some 'fire sale' going, used the 20% off coupon to buy a lift cart I've been spying, I walked into the busy store, saw the unit, intercepted a clerk and was loading it into the truck 5 minutes later. Got a 'free' tape measure also. 
Useful Tool Sidebar - BTW this is my second lift cart (I still have the first I bought 15 years ago) they are extremely useful in bringing stuff up to pickup bed height and act as a useful service table and heavy item lifter, I wouldn't be without one now. And they are fairly robust. I love their Pittsburg wrenches because I can cut them in half for access or special purposes without flinching.
Your result may vary, some settling may occur in shipment, prosecutors will be violated.
Useful Tool Sidebar - BTW this is my second lift cart (I still have the first I bought 15 years ago) they are extremely useful in bringing stuff up to pickup bed height and act as a useful service table and heavy item lifter, I wouldn't be without one now. And they are fairly robust. I love their Pittsburg wrenches because I can cut them in half for access or special purposes without flinching.
Your result may vary, some settling may occur in shipment, prosecutors will be violated.
Cyberbear
Well-known member
Corporations only care about their bottom line, and generally will not change store policy unless it's costing them big money. The loss of a purchase means nothing to the nation's largest tool supplier, there are always many more customers waiting in line. While frustrating, these situations are not easily fixable. I wish you better service in the future.
countrysquire
Well-known member
The service at the Harbor Freight near me is always good. As others have mentioned, it all comes down to the manager and what his or her employee expectations are.