Vessel "Phillips" screwdrivers

[lardy1]

The Japanese screwdriver discussions opened up new horizons for me. My background is carpentry/woodworking then Merchant Marine up until retirement so Garage Journal has often showed me new things.

Anyway, I'm looking at Vessel and I'm not sure I understand the "Jaws Fit" style with the teeth. I thought it was just a series of edges to bite the pocket edges better to reduce cam out opportunities. This morning I saw something about tapping the screwdriver to get it to rotate. I don't understand what these teeth are all about after seeing that. Can someone give a Vessel Jaws Fit For Dummies clinic or at least give a simple explanation of the difference between jaws and no jaws? I also see the Megadora line is available with and without.

On my retirement budget, fifteen to twenty bucks apiece for screwdrivers is substantial. I don't want to buy into something I either don't need (home gamer) or won't use wasting both money and drawer space.

I'm not looking to start a brand vs. brand thread here but if you think I might be better off looking another direction, please speak up. Vessel and PB Swiss seem to rise to the top in most discussions. That doesn't mean I need or can afford them though.

Thanks for helping this old dinosaur along.

 

[old_smokey]

You are correct, the jawsfit design is meant to bite into a fastener and prevent cam out.

What you described next is a different line of Vessel drivers, the Impacta line. These have a built in manual impact driver, which works by smacking the top of the driver with a mallet, inducing a downward rotational force into the fastener. This is useful for removing seized fasteners, such as engine case screws.

I have a set of the regular jawsfit screwdrivers and they are excellent for all general purpose work. These are the green (cyan?) and black soft handled drivers. Highly recommended. I also have the Impacta line and they are much more specialized so to speak. Don’t bother buying those unless you know you need one.

Vessel also makes a red handled version, which features a through-tang with striking cap. If you often have to hammer your screwdrivers to get them to bite it might be useful. Otherwise don’t bother with this. Get the regular green/black version.

Check out Amazon Japan. They’re a lot cheaper from there. I paid maybe $7 a screwdriver or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bigblockyeti]

This is what I bought to test the Vessel waters so to speak. I'm impressed, it's very well made and the driver tips are some of the best I've seen. As a bonus, the bits can be locked into an impact driver for power driving.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E55DL4I/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[M6erfan]

Old_smokey nailed it. You are mixing up two different Vessel screwdrivers. Impacta 980 series turn the fastener 12° with every hammer hit. These do not have the "Jawsfit" tips. Their Megadora 900 series are just like 'normal' screwdrivers and available with or without the Jawsfit tips. For general everyday work the 'normal' 900 Megadoras are better balanced. The Impacta's are handle heavy due to the built in impact mechanism and feel unbalanced compared to regular screwdrivers. But they're great if you need them.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Yeah the regular don’t have the teeth or jaws on them or whatever they are just a regular JIS impacting screwdriver. The other ones do have that they are to prevent you from wallowing out or messing up the screw.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[lardy1]

You guys are a big help. Thank you. Some of these online sellers mix up their descriptions or place them with a product that it doesn't apply. I see that is where I was misled on the rotation thing. I'm now seeing more about the Megadora that I hadn't noticed before. There is a decimal point in the product number on some and not on others. I'm gathering by the listings and descriptions that those without the decimal point are Jaws Fit and with the decimal point are just plain. I should be stating that as a question though because it's only my untrained observation and I already know not to trust Amazon and some others descriptions.

I bought a #2 with the teeth but haven't used it yet. For general use I'm thinking I might not want Jaws Fit though. Do they mark fasteners?

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

 

[dnschmidt]

Everybody makes their version of the Jaws Fit as this was originally introduced by APEX tool with what they called ACR. Nothing wrong with it since if it does any marking of the screw whatsoever, which is questionable, you can't see the internal surfaces of the X drive anyway which is where the marking would occur. Why worry about what essentially is invisible marking which I really don't think happens anyway? The point of the JIS type driver, none of which actually exist anymore as it's been included in the newer DIN specification, is to prevent slippage which it does. If it doesn't slip it can't mark.

 

[M6erfan]

I have 1 Jawsfit in #2, all the rest of my Vessel 900's are older without Jawsfit. The Jawsfit are not that aggressive but I'll disagree with dnschmidt to some extent. If you have a PH screw head that is plated, the ridges might scratch off the plating leading to premature corrosion in the future. Is this a big deal to the end user? Maybe. Maybe not. In real everyday use I don't see Jawsfit tearing up fasteners.

 

[dcummer]

Vessel also makes a red handled version, which features a through-tang with striking cap. If you often have to hammer your screwdrivers to get them to bite it might be useful. Otherwise don’t bother with this. Get the regular green/black version.

Those red handled ones are the 930 series, I really like them. They have a nice heft, the feel is total quality.

 

[richfinn]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vessel-9...-dfea-410b-bd9a-5f3f2b5fcbce&epid=18005954805

I just got this set of "Jaws Fit" Vessels, they don't have the teeth though it's a coating on the tips (maybe an earlier incarnation)

Nice hammer through screwdrivers!!

 

[measuredtwice]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vessel-9...-dfea-410b-bd9a-5f3f2b5fcbce&epid=18005954805

I just got this set of "Jaws Fit" Vessels, they don't have the teeth though it's a coating on the tips (maybe an earlier incarnation)

Nice hammer through screwdrivers drivers!!

Notice the "Try" in "Try Jawsfit" on the box. I think it is intended to be an advertisement for another product. Like buy these as well. It could also be an older model. One of the photos shows an older catalog.

There's a lot of confusion about Jaws Fit. It's just a marketing term and Vessel has used it to describe several different types of anti-slip. The inconsistency is probably the reason for confusion.

Here they use "Jaws fit" to talk about the "teeth". They also warn it could damage soft or plated fasteners and that it should not be used for restoration work.

Here's a Google translation of the Japanese on this product sheet. Likewise, here they are using "Jaws fit" when talking about the "protrusions".

"
NEWジョーズフィット。
油滑りを抑える
ノンスリップ加工。
特殊加工により羽根部分に微細な
突起を追加しました。この突起が
ネジの十字穴にしっかりと食い込
み、カムアウトを抑えます。
"
in English

"NEW Jaws fit.
Suppress oil slip
Non-slip processing.
Fine processing on the blades
Added a protrusion. This protrusion
Firmly bite into the cross hole of the screw
Only, it suppresses come-out."

Here Jaws fit describes the protrusions on the tips of these bits. Notice the red dots highlighting the protrusions. The protrusions are on the surface instead of the edge. It looks comparable to ACR.

Here Jaws fit is used differently to describe a coating that is anti-slip. This does not have the "teeth" but it serves a similar purpose. This is an old advertisement from before the use of anti-slip "teeth".

 

[Ralf11]

then there are ones with black nubbies on the handles which seem designed for oily, greasy automotive envs.

 

[richfinn]

Notice the "Try" in "Try Jawsfit" on the box. I think it is intended to be an advertisement for another product. Like buy these as well. It could also be an older model. One of the photos shows an older catalog.

There's a lot of confusion about Jaws Fit. It's just a marketing term and Vessel has used it to describe several different types of anti-slip. The inconsistency is probably the reason for confusion.

Here they use "Jaws fit" to talk about the "teeth". They also warn it could damage soft or plated fasteners and that it should not be used for restoration work.

Here's a Google translation of the Japanese on this product sheet. Likewise, here they are using "Jaws fit" when talking about the "protrusions".

"
NEWジョーズフィット。
油滑りを抑える
ノンスリップ加工。
特殊加工により羽根部分に微細な
突起を追加しました。この突起が
ネジの十字穴にしっかりと食い込
み、カムアウトを抑えます。
"
in English

"NEW Jaws fit.
Suppress oil slip
Non-slip processing.
Fine processing on the blades
Added a protrusion. This protrusion
Firmly bite into the cross hole of the screw
Only, it suppresses come-out."

Here Jaws fit describes the protrusions on the tips of these bits. Notice the red dots highlighting the protrusions. The protrusions are on the surface instead of the edge. It looks comparable to ACR.

Here Jaws fit is used differently to describe a coating that is anti-slip. This does not have the "teeth" but it serves a similar purpose. This is an old advertisement from before the use of anti-slip "teeth".

If you look at them really closely you can see where the granular coating begins

 

[pizza]

i'd like to see this test done on a jawsfit driver that isn't brand new

also, have you browsed their site and catalog?
https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/screwdriver/list/18
https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/download/pdf/general-catalogue_E.pdf

 

[Duker]

Those red handled ones are the 930 series, I really like them. They have a nice heft, the feel is total quality.

^^^ This....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[richfinn]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8E-YmbG39dU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

i'd like to see this test done on a jawsfit driver that isn't brand new

also, have you browsed their site and catalog?
https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/product/screwdriver/list/18
https://www.vessel.co.jp/english/download/pdf/general-catalogue_E.pdf

I would be interested to see how an "ordinary screwdriver" fared in that test using the old valve grinding paste trick!!

 

[firebirdparts]

Interesting. The first time I ever saw a surface like this was Vermont American 25 years ago, or maybe 30 years, but the ribs were on another part of the bit. They are calling this "Icebit(r)" now. I kinda thought it went out of style, as I've had 50 more bits after that and none of them were toothy.

 

[richfinn]

Interesting. The first time I ever saw a surface like this was Vermont American 25 years ago, or maybe 30 years, but the ribs were on another part of the bit. They are calling this "Icebit(r)" now. I kinda thought it went out of style, as I've had 50 more bits after that and none of them were toothy.

My Snap-On hardhandle ratchet screwdriver had ACR bits back in 1990!!!

 

[B_Bimmer]

I like and recommend most everything vessel except the impacta drivers. They don't hold up under regular use. I have broken several with just a small dead blow mallet and mild use on motorcycles.

 

[M6erfan]

I like and recommend most everything vessel except the impacta drivers. They don't hold up under regular use. I have broken several with just a small dead blow mallet and mild use on motorcycles.

What broke? The tip? The mechanism in the handle?

 

[measuredtwice]

If you look at them really closely you can see where the granular coating begins

It's difficult to get those close up photos sharp. Sounds like the seller might be liquidating old stock. It's a good price for UK buyers. Hopefully the prices will lower in the USA toward the Japan prices.

I like and recommend most everything vessel except the impacta drivers. They don't hold up under regular use. I have broken several with just a small dead blow mallet and mild use on motorcycles.

That's not good. I have the Impactas but just use them as regular screwdrivers. I got a good price on them.

I recommend the Megadora line but can't say that I feel the same about most everything from Vessel. They have a wide range of products. The ball grip with the exchangeable blades is lower quality but it's handy and readily available for cheap in the USA. I don't see the value in paying to have the made in China and Taiwan Vessel products shipped international from Japan to the USA but some do.

 

[richfinn]

It's difficult to get those close up photos sharp. Sounds like the seller might be liquidating old stock. It's a good price for UK buyers. Hopefully the prices will lower in the USA toward the Japan prices.



That's not good. I have the Impactas but just use them as regular screwdrivers. I got a good price on them.

I recommend the Megadora line but can't say that I feel the same about most everything from Vessel. They have a wide range of products. The ball grip with the exchangeable blades is lower quality but it's handy and readily available for cheap in the USA. I don't see the value in paying to have the made in China and Taiwan Vessel products shipped international from Japan to the USA but some do.

I got them from "only quality tools" ebay shop

I don't think UK buyers have caught on to Japanese tool quality just yet, so there are Ko-Ken and Vessel bargains to be had

Even tatty used Snap-On stuff is ridiculously overpriced over here, I got nearly RRP for a pair of Snap-On crimping
pliers!!!

 

[BTL-A4]

This is what I bought to test the Vessel waters so to speak. I'm impressed, it's very well made and the driver tips are some of the best I've seen. As a bonus, the bits can be locked into an impact driver for power driving.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E55DL4I/?tag=atomicindus08-20

+1 for this. I bought it to try it out and it is awesome. I tossed my Craftsman Phillips drivers in a box and haven't missed them.

BTW, I talked to an actual person at Vessel and he told me they sell on Amazon.

 

[m6z]

.....

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[CJM8515]

I have a few: the ball headed driver with interchangeable tips, a regular megadora set, several impact ones and my craftsman branded phillips and flathead impact. I LOVE them working on my japanese bikes and quads. I never broke the impact yet. also works well on the stubborn stupid rotor screws on hondas and other imports.

 

[lardy1]

I ordered a #2 Phillips from Vessel, a #2 from Felo and a #1 from Wera. The best I currently have is Klein so I'll be comparing them to that benchmark and to one another before I commit to a set or more individuals. I'll also note that I have imported Channellock which are not impressive and I bought a couple Tekton hard handled drivers awhile back and I like them but believe I can do better for similar money.

 

[measuredtwice]

I ordered a #2 Phillips from Vessel, a #2 from Felo and a #1 from Wera. The best I currently have is Klein so I'll be comparing them to that benchmark and to one another before I commit to a set or more individuals. I'll also note that I have imported Channellock which are not impressive and I bought a couple Tekton hard handled drivers awhile back and I like them but believe I can do better for similar money.

Which models did you get from those brands?

The Vessel Megadora with Jaw Fit teeth will fit tighter and be more resistant to cam out compared to your Klein.

If you use slotted for slotted screws (not pry bars), I wouldn't bother replacing your Klein slotted. The Klein slotted drivers will fit American fasteners better than German imports. So I would just pick up Phillips rather than a set of Phillips/Slotted. ...maybe use the money saved on some torx or others.

 

[lardy1]

Which models did you get from those brands?

The Vessel Megadora with Jaw Fit teeth will fit tighter and be more resistant to cam out compared to your Klein.

If you use slotted for slotted screws (not pry bars), I wouldn't bother replacing your Klein slotted. The Klein slotted drivers will fit American fasteners better than German imports. So I would just pick up Phillips rather than a set of Phillips/Slotted. ...maybe use the money saved on some torx or others.

I think that's excellent advice and is basically what I'm doing. I recently got this handful of Phillips. Two Megadora's and some European stuff to try out. Also some Wiha Phillips insert bits and Felo Torx bits. I think I'll augment my slotted with a couple Tektons and there's one more Klein that I want and I should be good to go.

Thanks for sharing your opinions and experience with these tools. You guys help me a lot.

 

[Blt2Lst]

Those red handled ones are the 930 series, I really like them. They have a nice heft, the feel is total quality.

Recently picked up one myself to work on japanese motorcycles, best dam phillips screwdriver I have ever used, I even like it better than my SO #2 phillips.

YMMV

 

[measuredtwice]

I think that's excellent advice and is basically what I'm doing. I recently got this handful of Phillips. Two Megadora's and some European stuff to try out. Also some Wiha Phillips insert bits and Felo Torx bits. I think I'll augment my slotted with a couple Tektons and there's one more Klein that I want and I should be good to go.

Thanks for sharing your opinions and experience with these tools. You guys help me a lot.

Nice selection of drivers. I have a few of those exact models. I don't have all of them although I do have other examples from those brands. Let us know how they work out for you in the long run.

 

[Ton ton]

Notice the "Try" in "Try Jawsfit" on the box. I think it is intended to be an advertisement for another product. Like buy these as well. It could also be an older model. One of the photos shows an older catalog.

There's a lot of confusion about Jaws Fit. It's just a marketing term and Vessel has used it to describe several different types of anti-slip. The inconsistency is probably the reason for confusion.

Here they use "Jaws fit" to talk about the "teeth". They also warn it could damage soft or plated fasteners and that it should not be used for restoration work.

Here's a Google translation of the Japanese on this product sheet. Likewise, here they are using "Jaws fit" when talking about the "protrusions".

"
NEWジョーズフィット。
油滑りを抑える
ノンスリップ加工。
特殊加工により羽根部分に微細な
突起を追加しました。この突起が
ネジの十字穴にしっかりと食い込
み、カムアウトを抑えます。
"
in English

"NEW Jaws fit.
Suppress oil slip
Non-slip processing.
Fine processing on the blades
Added a protrusion. This protrusion
Firmly bite into the cross hole of the screw
Only, it suppresses come-out."

Here Jaws fit describes the protrusions on the tips of these bits. Notice the red dots highlighting the protrusions. The protrusions are on the surface instead of the edge. It looks comparable to ACR.

Here Jaws fit is used differently to describe a coating that is anti-slip. This does not have the "teeth" but it serves a similar purpose. This is an old advertisement from before the use of anti-slip "teeth".

Thank you for the pictures. They really help my addiction.