Vice Grips... again!

[Last_Indian]

Yes...I know this old chestnut

Having recently purchased some Facom 501 pliers, I can’t begin to tell you how disappointed I was with the quality of this product. Tried 2 sets then gave up as both had issues. Really (and I mean really) bad casting on the jaws with slop and bad jaw alignment.

I think this may be a generic factory punting out for whoever wants to put their name on it. Proto, Expert and Stanley (no surprises there) among others I’ve seen. Some say their made by Facom directly but I’m not so sure. Even if they are made in France! Some on here will probably know better on that.

So back to the question in hand. Grip On (as rebadged Facom 513, Snap On, beta and others). Thought this would be the way to go. In fact some of the rebranded ones now seem cheaper than Grip On’s.

Problem is I have seen some complaints in reviews about the teeth deforming quite easily? That may have been batch related (not sure what production year though). Some rate them more highly then their own mothers, while some say over rated...

So... those who have them let me know your thoughts. I’m thinking the Facom 513 route as it’s cheaper than SNAP ON and Beta and I’m not a fan of the current orange and black of the Grips Ons.

 

[redvalkyrie]

Gripon/Proto all the way for me. They simply work better.

 

[Mr_B]

^
yeh I prefer older visegrips.
picked up loads new and used but like new at part swaps, yard sales and online.

only newer ones I had decent was toptul .

Got be careful with facom, it either gold or garbage and pliers stuff tends be garbage .

 

[Onefastgsx]

I agree with older vise-grips. I pick them up at garage sales quite often. You can never have too many pairs

 

[mitusa]

I have a couple of dozen pairs of the older vise grips.....bought at farm sales and auctions.

But I do have a newer pair that I think were made in china.....they don't have a second lever...that seem very nice to me...

 

[dutchgray]

I prefer vintage Petersen ViseGrips to Grip-on.

There are millions of them in lightly used condition at yard sales and estate sales for almost nothing...

I finally stopped buying them because I have too many... is that a thing? I paid around $1 for my average pair.

The OP is in the UK, very unusual to find a used pair of Peterson vice grips here and USA Irwin ones are not all that common.

 

[Last_Indian]

^
yeh I prefer older visegrips.
picked up loads new and used but like new at part swaps, yard sales and online.

only newer ones I had decent was toptul .

Got be careful with facom, it either gold or garbage and pliers stuff tends be garbage .

Wouldn't go as far as garbage, just not up to expectations at the price (£40ish).

Grip On (Facom 513) I can get for half that, but I would like something fairly decent.

I have a lot of Facom and generally you get what you pay for in fit and finish. Sometimes factory inconsistency can interfere with that I guess. Some people on here bought the Proto version and they looked the ******** in the pictures... go figure?

 

[Alaniho]

i like the Grip-ons, i have a pair of the Channel-lock branded ones. The painted surface looks bad after a while but bahco branded grip-on have the more usual crv type finish.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CWKEP66/?tag=atomicindustr-21

Milwaukees have good reviews too and are now in screwfix if thats handy for you.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/pliers-cutters/cat831008?brand=milwaukee

 

[mr.lemons]

If teeth hardness is priority then used 'Mole Grips' can be found on UK ebay. They have much more durable teeth than Grip on and Milwaukee. It's night and day difference. Only issue is straight jaws only. I haven't tried any modern German locking pliers to compare.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mole-Gri...795620?hash=item4b661e18a4:g:-w0AAOSwjT5dBimd

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mole-grips-pliers/143296287236?hash=item215d1fd204:g:ILwAAOSwjvxc-CNo

 

[Mr_B]

Wouldn't go as far as garbage, just not up to expectations at the price (£40ish).

Grip On (Facom 513) I can get for half that, but I would like something fairly decent.

I have a lot of Facom and generally you get what you pay for in fit and finish. Sometimes factory inconsistency can interfere with that I guess. Some people on here bought the Proto version and they looked the ******** in the pictures... go figure?

if you in uk try toptul the about half the cost and close to older visegrip quality and design .
Facom rebranded and lower end taiwan stuff can be expensive garbage, not a fan of gripon .

 

[Last_Indian]

Thanks for the input guys...

I'll take a look at those makes mentioned. Would be so much easier if you could actually see most of these in the flesh, but good tool shops are few are far between near me.

 

[Strouty]

I finally stopped buying them because I have too many... is that a thing? I paid around $1 for my average pair.

I am pretty sure admitting that is instant revocation of your man card.


I have some of this style Facom and I like them, they are not cheap in the US, but my guess is they are less money over in the UK.

https://www.misterworker.com/en-us/...MI38frsKL24gIVmY2zCh11ogtfEAQYASABEgKRQPD_BwE

 

[jimmyin3D]

I am pretty sure admitting that is instant revocation of your man card.





I have some of this style Facom and I like them, they are not cheap in the US, but my guess is they are less money over in the UK.



https://www.misterworker.com/en-us/...MI38frsKL24gIVmY2zCh11ogtfEAQYASABEgKRQPD_BwE

Yeah for what you use vise grip style locking pliers I love my Facom. For grabbing onto something and not letting go.




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[Brownsfan]

Are the Milwaukee locking pliers available in the UK? I've found those to be the best available for the price quality ratio. And as easy availability.

 

[Jim Pelosi]

Yes the Milwaukees are good grips.
I have a pair of Craftsman locking pliers I bought in the early 90's and I can find no equal to them. They lock like a pit bull, never twist, and the jaw teeth are still perfect after 30 years of use. It's one tool that was worth every penny.

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[Last_Indian]

Are the Milwaukee locking pliers available in the UK? I've found those to be the best available for the price quality ratio. And as easy availability.

Yes they are here in the UK. I already have one of the utility flip knifes which is nice. I will check them out for sure.

 

[BarryWells]

My main deal with this style is ease of release. Grip on style wins every time,

 

[Last_Indian]

Yeah for what you use vise grip style locking pliers I love my Facom. For grabbing onto something and not letting go.




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Yea... those look lovely and better than the ones I got! Maybe its a bad batch, but supplier does not seem to agree with me, so I will have to purchase Facom elsewhere from now on.

In my view he should bring the issue up with Facom directly and see what they have to say about it. Only takes one idiot in QC to ruin a companies reputation after all.

How much play do they have, as the jaws had quite a lot of lateral play on the ones I received.

 

[Alaniho]

My main deal with this style is ease of release. Grip on style wins every time,

100% agreed

I also quite like the Stanley vicegrips as a cheap option, they have the same nice soft release.

Also what happened with the Eagle grips that were to be made at the old Petersen factory ??

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

The first pair of Vise-grips I got was in the "60s, every pair since has not been as good as the one before. That same model 7".

 

[speed bump]

I recently bought some Strong hand tools locking pliers and I am impressed. They are at least as nice as my old Peterson vise grips and they cost about what new Irwin junk costs. They also have a nicer finish than the Milwaukee pliers I bought at the same time.

 

[anetode]

Grip On (as rebadged Facom 513

According to the inventory listing over at Ultimate Garage, the 513s are made in China. They do look like Grip-Ons, but they're not.

 

[jimmyin3D]

Yea... those look lovely and better than the ones I got! Maybe its a bad batch, but supplier does not seem to agree with me, so I will have to purchase Facom elsewhere from now on.



In my view he should bring the issue up with Facom directly and see what they have to say about it. Only takes one idiot in QC to ruin a companies reputation after all.



How much play do they have, as the jaws had quite a lot of lateral play on the ones I received.

Yeah you should see if they can replace them for you. I got mine from ultimategarage and I’m sure if I had a problem they would help me out.

The jaws on mine are straight and teeth line up. Even on the lower settings the jaws do not move, super tight.




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[Last_Indian]

According to the inventory listing over at Ultimate Garage, the 513s are made in China. They do look like Grip-Ons, but they're not.

That's interesting... I know the 580 are basically CH Hanson (China), though the ones I've seen seem fairly well made.

Is that inventory absolutely correct, cause they do look identical to Grip On right down to the rivets?

I cant access his site anymore from the UK. Stupid internet (EURO) regs have put pay to that.

If its true then thanks for the heads up. Probably saved me from another bad purchase.

 

[Last_Indian]

Yeah you should see if they can replace them for you. I got mine from ultimategarage and I’m sure if I had a problem they would help me out.

The jaws on mine are straight and teeth line up. Even on the lower settings the jaws do not move, super tight.




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Tried two sets and both had issues. Supplier doesn't seem to agree saying he inspected them and they are fine. I cant be bothered to argue, so will take my custom elsewhere in future.

 

[jimmyin3D]

Tried two sets and both had issues. Supplier doesn't seem to agree saying he inspected them and they are fine. I cant be bothered to argue, so will take my custom elsewhere in future.

That’s lame, I have had good luck with my tools but I try to buy from Amazon or reputable dealers because I would hate for something like that to happen.

 

[tanukiboy]

Yeah for what you use vise grip style locking pliers I love my Facom. For grabbing onto something and not letting go.




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I have some similar ones, only Facom branded and stamped "MADE IN FRANCE". They're great! They have some play in them, but I think that's unavoidable given the multistep hinge design.

View media item 93431
I notice that the Proto versions don't seem to have a stamp on them. Any idea of the COO? I wonder if that might have something to do with the variations in quality that some folks have reported here.

I also have a Facom 513, but it doesn't have any country stamp on it. But no matter where it may be made, I think it feels really solid. Very little play and precisely aligned jaws. Here's a picture snagged from the Web:

View media item 93432

 

[mrspeed]

So back to the question in hand. Grip On (as rebadged Facom 513, Snap On, beta and others). Thought this would be the way to go. In fact some of the rebranded ones now seem cheaper than Grip On’s.

Do you have any pictures of your 513? I looked up pictures, but there appear to be a few different versions, and most of them don't look like Grip On to me. I have a lot of Grip On pliers, including relabeled as Beta, Elora, Piher, and a few others. I also have a few Facom, but they seem clearly made in China and not Grip On to me.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Last_Indian]

Do you have any pictures of your 513? I looked up pictures, but there appear to be a few different versions, and most of them don't look like Grip On to me. I have a lot of Grip On pliers, including relabeled as Beta, Elora, Piher, and a few others. I also have a few Facom, but they seem clearly made in China and not Grip On to me.

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I don't actually own the 513's, I was looking to buy on the basis they where rebadged Grip On. That's where the thread started regards opinions on Grip On's, but I don't know for sure??

The newer 513.10's look very similar to Grip On and Beta etc, but if you own those makes, would be good to hear where they differ. Any pics you can post up?

I know Beta do a rebadged version of the Facom 500 series and I think the Beta 1057 is a rebranded Hanson (Facom 580).

If the 513's are just chinese I'll give them a miss too.

I'm beginning to think the Hanson's would do me as they seem well made and I can get them for £14... Nearly half that of the Facom 580's

 

[Last_Indian]

I have some similar ones, only Facom branded and stamped "MADE IN FRANCE". They're great! They have some play in them, but I think that's unavoidable given the multistep hinge design.

View media item 93431
I notice that the Proto versions don't seem to have a stamp on them. Any idea of the COO? I wonder if that might have something to do with the variations in quality that some folks have reported here.

I also have a Facom 513, but it doesn't have any country stamp on it. But no matter where it may be made, I think it feels really solid. Very little play and precisely aligned jaws. Here's a picture snagged from the Web:

View media item 93432

I believe they're all coming out of France, but not sure if that is a Facom plant or just a generic operation rebadging as required. It would explain the quality variations if it was.

Any chance of a pic of your 513's?

 

[tanukiboy]

Any chance of a pic of your 513's?

Here are some pictures. No country stamp, but nice and tight. Seriously, only about 1 mm of lateral play when open.

View media item 93436
View media item 93437
View media item 93438

 

[jimmyin3D]

I believe they're all coming out of France, but not sure if that is a Facom plant or just a generic operation rebadging as required. It would explain the quality variations if it was.

Any chance of a pic of your 513's?

Yeah they are made in France according to online catalogues and ultimategarage. And not strange considering Proto and Facom are under one roof.

I did question why the Made in France stamping wasn’t on the Proto versions when I first got them but got over that once I felt the locking pliers in hand and how beastly they are haha.

You can see just the middle hinge jaw is Facom branded the others are Proto relabels.



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[dnschmidt]

As Mr. B mentioned TOPTUL makes really good vise-grips which is why before I stopped selling them I bought about 4 boxes of various sizes for myself. Since they aren't available any longer the best I've found are Milwaukee. Made in Taiwan but made right. Can't wait for Malco to get back into the vise-grip business with their Eagle-Grip vise-grips but who knows if we'll all still be alive by the time that happens.

 

[Parrothead]

...Also what happened with the Eagle grips that were to be made at the old Petersen factory ??

I was wondering the same thing. Seems like a long time since the announcement was made. Spring of 19 was the goal...it’s June.

 

[Last_Indian]

Here are some pictures. No country stamp, but nice and tight. Seriously, only about 1 mm of lateral play when open.

View media item 93436
View media item 93437
View media item 93438

Thanks for the pictures!

They do like nice and to my mind exactly like the Beta/Grip On variants in those pics. I think the newer types have a concave/button type rivet head as opposed to the round heads you have. The rounded ones are more old school... which is always cool

 

[Last_Indian]

Yeah they are made in France according to online catalogues and ultimategarage. And not strange considering Proto and Facom are under one roof.

I did question why the Made in France stamping wasn’t on the Proto versions when I first got them but got over that once I felt the locking pliers in hand and how beastly they are haha.

You can see just the middle hinge jaw is Facom branded the others are Proto relabels.



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Now that's just rubbing it in

 

[sweet victory]

I've really been enjoying my Gedore locking pliers. I'm sure OP can find these in the UK

 

[Last_Indian]

Good picture of some of the makes that have been mentioned...

 

[mrspeed]

Here are some pictures. No country stamp, but nice and tight. Seriously, only about 1 mm of lateral play when open.

Thanks for the pictures. These are exactly the ones that look nothing like the Grip On versions to me. It's very similar to the fav cam Grip pliers that I have. The shape of the adjustment screw is too square in the edges, the finish is all wrong with a sort of textured chrome that I've never seen on a single grip on, and the rivets are wrong. They also just feel different next to each other. I can post some comparison pictures in a while.

if I recall correctly, I think the spot weld under the adjustment screw may also be different.

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[Last_Indian]

Thanks for the pictures. These are exactly the ones that look nothing like the Grip On versions to me. It's very similar to the fav cam Grip pliers that I have. The shape of the adjustment screw is too square in the edges, the finish is all wrong with a sort of textured chrome that I've never seen on a single grip on, and the rivets are wrong. They also just feel different next to each other. I can post some comparison pictures in a while.

if I recall correctly, I think the spot weld under the adjustment screw may also be different.

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Regards the finish, I wouldn't take that into account as they will finish to suit the manufacturer/reseller. SNAP ON have a grey enamel for example and Grip Ons are now black and orange... Beta shiny silver from i've seen. Rivets have been either round heads (older style) or the newer concave ones I mentioned before. Not sure when this cosmetic change was made though

Not saying that Facom 513's are Grip Ons, just saying they look like them so I made that assumption.

Get those pics over so we can see the difference your taking about.