Vintage SO in 9/32 drive

[alton1911]

I bought what I thought was a 1/4 square drive SnapOn T-Handle today. Only to find that it measure more like 9/32. Won’t fit anything else I have.
What can I do to avoid this in the future?
Or should I just be looking for 9/32 accessories from now on?
Are 9/32 drive commonly found in vintage toolboxes.
Does anyone have anything cool in 9/32?
I’m new to old tools so please be kind, and feel free to move this to a better location.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Musicinabottle]

I have one by snap on too. Worthless. Make it a wall hanger.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Snap-On 9/32-inch drive and 1/4-inch drive pieces had different model numbers. The 9/32-inch drive pieces will all be marked M-***. The 1/4-inch drive pieces will all be marked TM-***, except for the ratchet, which is GM-. The Snap-On 1/4-inch drive sets, introduced during WWII, did not come with a tee-handle (with a continuous looping T). I'm not sure any mfgr's 1/4-inch drive sets did. That style handle was pretty much phased out by the late 1930's, also when most mfgrs phased out 9/32-inch drive in favor for the 1/4-inch drive size quickly emerging as the industry standard. Snap-On, Plomb, Armstrong and Williams continued making 9/32-inch tools throughout the war - in support of USAAF use, but by the late 40's, it was obsolete.

If you intend to actually use your tee-handle, rather than treat it as a collectible, you could carefully grind or file it down 1/64" on all sides of the drive stud, effectively reducing it by 1/32" in diameter to 8/32" or 1/4". Wouldn't be the first time. It was quite commonly (and usually quite crudely) done on 9/32-inch drive tools in the late 1940's. And more often than not when you find an orphan tool marked with a 9/32-inch drive model number, it's just as likely to be grinded down to 1/4-inch. Not to be judgmental, but I would recommend finding a nice vintage 1/4-inch hinge handle instead, with a hole for a tommy bar, and leave the Snap-On 9/32-inch tee handle alone. Someone could probably use it to complete a set.

EDIT: You may run into other 9/32-inch drive tools, including Plomb, Williams, and Armstrong, maybe others. But no, it's not nearly as common as finding 1/4-inch drive.

 

[d42jeep]

This is what my fairly complete Snap-on 9/32 set looks like.
-Don

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I have a a couple 9/32- 3/8 adapters from Stevens Walden, that may be another approach

 

[Oldtuleguy]

If you carefully file the 3 sides without the friction ball, it will become a 1/4 inch drive. This was done quite often back in the day.I do have one oddball 1/4 inch set with a t handle that appears to be 1/4 drive

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you carefully file the 3 sides without the friction ball, it will become a 1/4 inch drive. This was done quite often back in the day.

Is there an echo in here? (Now I know who's not reading my posts!)

I do have one oddball 1/4 inch set with a t handle that appears to be 1/4 drive

Interesting. Well, there was quite a gap between Catalog P (1942) - when the midget sets were 9/32-drive (plus a 1/4-drive ratchet mod, no other pieces) and Catalog Q (December 1944) - when the midget sets were 1/4-drive. I don't recall seeing one before, but that was obviously just anecdotal and wrong! What's the model number?

 

[Musicinabottle]

You'd think that an adaptor would be available. I like the **** out of mine, as it just looks cool as heck, but........ useless.

 

[davethorik]

You'd think that an adaptor would be available. I like the **** out of mine, as it just looks cool as heck, but........ useless.

There are adapters, they're just not common. I've seen Snap-on and Proto examples here on this forum.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

They had adapters. I have come across quite a few filed down 9/32 ratchets as well I have 3 m70n ratchets that were clearly filed. The t in the set shown above shows no signs of filing, is in an odd box and has an m3 part number and a 51 date code. A bit of a mystery. The adapter was available as early as 37. Here are pics of 2 of them, one from 47 the other 38

 

[Musicinabottle]

There are adapters, they're just not common. I've seen Snap-on and Proto examples here on this forum.

I now recall. They were expensive!

 

[Cruzan80]

I have a knurled adapter, probably NB made.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I believe they were common. Many technicians had large collections of 9/32 drive sockets for carburetor and electrical service, even refrigeration. As soon as snap on released 1/4 drive, the adapter was available. From 37 to 40 the midget master set exploded from a single tray to the k65 carry all. The adapters smoothed the transition, so technicians did not have to abandon their 9/32 drive tools.

 

[CNGsaves]

Buy some short 1/4" drive extensions from Harbor Freight and . . . .
. . . . MAKE YOUR OWN . . . adapter to 9/32" drive

Could be 1/4" to 9/32" if you want to use current ratchets and old sockets . . .
. . . . could be 9/32" to 1/4" if you want to use old ratchet and new sockets.

I sure would NOT be grinding down vintage SnapOn if it were mine.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Sorry lugz, just read your post about the "crudely ground" 9/32 tools. I find them interesting, evidence of a significant transition in tools and drive sizes.

 

[alton1911]

Someone asked for the Model, it has an underlined with a dash “M-5” the reverse side of the bar has what may be a G stamp.
Thank you all for so much input.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Sorry lugz, just read your post about the "crudely ground" 9/32 tools.

No prob. I was just bustin' chops.

Someone asked for the Model, it has an underlined with a dash “M-5” the reverse side of the bar has what may be a G stamp.

I was asking Oldtuleguy for the model number on his 1/4-inch drive T-handle, because I've never seen one before in a catalog or in the wild. Given their marking scheme, it should be TM-3. As for the tool you picked up, you probably should've posted a picture from the outset. The M-5 is a Sliding T-handle. When you said it was a T-handle in your first post, I though you were referring to an actual T-handle (which was model number M-3). If you look at the photos of d42jeep's and Oldtuleguy's midget sets above, that's the tool with a T-handle formed by the round bar stock steel being looped around tightly into the shape of a T. The 1/4-inch Sliding T-handle was a TM-5.

EDIT: A "G" date stamp would be 1945. That was the end of the line for Snap-On's 9/32-inch drive line.

Also, if all your other midget tools are 1/4-inch drive, and you're looking for a 1/4-inch drive Sliding T-handle, they are very common. Filing the M-5 down or using an adaptor is definitely not necessary.

 

[d42jeep]

Snap-On 9/32-inch drive and 1/4-inch drive pieces had different model numbers. The 9/32-inch drive pieces will all be marked M-***. The 1/4-inch drive pieces will all be marked TM-***, except for the ratchet, which is GM-. The Snap-On 1/4-inch drive sets, introduced during WWII, did not come with a tee-handle (with a continuous looping T). I'm not sure any mfgr's 1/4-inch drive sets did. That style handle was pretty much phased out by the late 1930's, also when most mfgrs phased out 9/32-inch drive in favor for the 1/4-inch drive size quickly emerging as the industry standard. Snap-On, Plomb, Armstrong and Williams continued making 9/32-inch tools throughout the war - in support of USAAF use, but by the late 40's, it was obsolete.

If you intend to actually use your tee-handle, rather than treat it as a collectible, you could carefully grind or file it down 1/64" on all sides of the drive stud, effectively reducing it by 1/32" in diameter to 8/32" or 1/4". Wouldn't be the first time. It was quite commonly (and usually quite crudely) done on 9/32-inch drive tools in the late 1940's. And more often than not when you find an orphan tool marked with a 9/32-inch drive model number, it's just as likely to be grinded down to 1/4-inch. Not to be judgmental, but I would recommend finding a nice vintage 1/4-inch hinge handle instead, with a hole for a tommy bar, and leave the Snap-On 9/32-inch tee handle alone. Someone could probably use it to complete a set.

EDIT: You may run into other 9/32-inch drive tools, including Plomb, Williams, and Armstrong, maybe others. But no, it's not nearly as common as finding 1/4-inch drive.

Here is my Plomb 9/32 flex handle that has been modified to 1/4" followed my my work in progress Snap-on 1/4" drive set.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I would agree the sliding t m5 not worth filing. 1/4 sliding ts very easy to come by

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

STW 9/32 to 3/8 adapters(the u joint has been filed to 1/4)
Typical sloppy Walden stamping... no part numbers.

As well as my unidentified CA-211 diver

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Oldtuleguy: Still interested in knowing what the model number on your 1/4-inch Tee-handle is. Again, I've never heard or seen one. Unless you, like the OP, were also talking about a Sliding Tee handle, not a Tee handle. Then disregard.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

It is an m3, but has a 51 date code, came in an unusual box. The drive end is 1/4 inch, but does not look filed.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Oddness #1: M-3 is the model number for a 9/32-inch drive Tee handle.
Oddness #2: As I said, I have never heard of a 1/4-inch drive Tee handle. (I could be underinformed on this, but I'm pretty sure they dropped the Tee handle and added the driver/spinner handle when they went from 9/32- to 1/4-inch drive.)
Oddness #3: All sources indicate that Snap-On discontinued 9/32-inch drive production, which was already confined to military contracts by late 1944, when the war was over. 1951 would be really late for 9/32-inch drive.

I'm not doubting your abilities with a steel rule, caliper, or micrometer (perhaps it's a touch undersized or worn), but my money is on that being a 1941 9/32-inch drive Tee-handle. How are the rest of the tools in the set marked in terms of date codes and model numbers?

EDIT: Maybe snapmom could clear this one up.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

It is an odd one. Not sure what to make of it. Box is an odd one as well. Ratchet is a 52, sockets range from early 50s on up, as if there were some lost or broken and replaced. You are correct about part number, as 1/4 drive stuff is denoted tm, the 9/32 "m".

 

[snapmom]

Does it have a collar. Does the 41 have a collar

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here are some pics

 

[snapmom]

The date code could be either 41 51. hard to tell. If you look down the shaft, and see if the shelf on the collar is uniform on all four sides it would have to be a factory 1/4. post a pic.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Ah, so see if drive end is centered in collar. I see what you mean about date code. Looked like 51 to me but not the best stamp.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Have you ever seen a 1/4-inch drive Tee Handle before, snapmom? Hypothetically speaking, if it is factory made, and it really is 1/4-inch, it's most likely a one-off, right? If it was meant for retail, why would they give it the same model number as the 9/32-inch drive Tee Handle?

 

[snapmom]

Never seen one, but there is a probablity

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is a pic from the top. Looks pretty even

 

[d42jeep]

I gues the 1/4" Tee is pretty much one of a kind. I found three 1945 dated Snap-on 9/32" flex handles at an estate sale yesterday. I would have been surprised to find one but three was very surprising. I added two of them to my 9/32" sets.
-Don

 

[snapmom]

sometimes you just get lucky.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I considered maybe it was a custom deal, just very well done, but the date code threw me.