Vintage SouthBend 12x36 Identification

[cthulu]

Hey all, I've been looking for a lathe for quite sometime and finally ran across one that looks like a good deal.

Only problem is the seller knows it's a southbend 12x36 gap bed with all the tooling and that's about all they know. Anyone have one these or know what model it is? Trying to figure out how big the gap bed is and I haven't had much luck looking around on google.

I've already bombarded the seller with questions and don't want to harass them anymore than I already have!

 

[Whitworth]

It's a project. It looks really old, has babbitt bearings, and it's running off a line shaft with flat belts. If that's what you're looking for/aware of, then well and good. You'll be otherwise factoring in the cost of a motor at a minimum. Or, much more likely, a huge project reconditioning it to use as a proper metal lathe.

 

[cvairwerks]

Looks like a Heavy 10 that's been converted to overhead drive. Looks to be missing the cover over the headstock.

A good primer here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page4.html

 

[cthulu]

Would you guys steer clear based on the age and part availability? Not really looking for a project, allegedly the lathe was used fairly recently.

 

[Robert Haas]

depends on what you want it to do. Owner here of an even older SB that holds its own with my needs.

The one n your picture appears to have a Quick Change tool posts and a smaller 6" 3 jaw chuck mounted, I see what looks like a 12" sitting on the floor. These old SB's are strong, easy to run and easy to get most parts for.


It looks like it has a motor mounted in the overhead so that will probably come with it.


Make sure the transmission is sound and take it home.

One thing about a southy like that, if you get it for 1500.00 or less, you will always be able to recover that when or if you ever upgrade.

 

[Whitworth]

Would you guys steer clear based on the age and part availability? Not really looking for a project, allegedly the lathe was used fairly recently.

Used for what, begs the question.

I'd be concerned a lathe that age ( it looks older than the Heavy 10 model) with decades of use, it most likely doesn't have hardened ways, which means re-scraping the bed. You have babbit bearings that may need adjustment or re-pouring. can't see the lead screw, or the cross feed screw, those and the compound screw may need replacing.

It could be a boatload of work and money to get it right.

But I'd buy it just for the legs, could make a nice work bench.

 

[fallous]

Used for what, begs the question.

I'd be concerned a lathe that age ( it looks older than the Heavy 10 model) with decades of use, it most likely doesn't have hardened ways, which means re-scraping the bed. You have babbit bearings that may need adjustment or re-pouring. can't see the lead screw, or the cross feed screw, those and the compound screw may need replacing.

It could be a boatload of work and money to get it right.

But I'd buy it just for the legs, could make a nice work bench.

I don't know about that particular size but my 1914 series "O" 16" SB lathe has bronze bearings, not babbit. Most early SB lathes of decent size have at least "flame-hardened" ways. The fact that the lathe in question still has its oiler cups suggests it has seen a better life than many from that era, and I'd imagine the half-nuts are more likely to need replacing than the lead screw.

Barring something fatally flawed in the spindle or ways, there's not much that will cost a boatload of money to correct as long as you're willing to spend your time and work.

 

[tombell572]

Some of the best info on S/B lathes can be found here: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/. The gap bed model is a somewhat rare and quite useful machine. Don't let the age alone scare you off. Can you inspect the machine? If so, try running the carriage over the entire bed length (by hand using hand wheel). If it begins to bind up as you move it toward the tailstock, it's an indicator of bed wear. Also look for a ridge worn into the front carriage way--another wear indicator. Check the back gears for broken teeth. Check castings for cracks or repairs. Its been asked above what do you want to use it for? Some level of wear is not necessarily a deal breaker. It would have bronze bearings, not babbit, there never would have been a cover over the spindle cone pulleys. The overhead drive is either stock South Bend or an aftermarket unit such as Drive All or Cullman installed after the lathe was taken off of a line shaft. Thousands of S/B lathes were built and parts are generally not hard to find, easier than many other makes. You would be in the same boat with virtually any other USA made lathe since there are virtually no more lathe builders left here.

Again, your best info will come from the S/B Forum at Practical Machinist.

Tom B.

 

[paulsomlo]

Not a Heavy 10 and not babbit bearings. Tombell is correct - it appears that the bearings are bronze. With the single tumbler gearbox and the top oilers, I would put the age somewhere around mid '20s to mid '30s. Parts availability for South Bend prior to 1940 may not be that great - there are lots of cottage industries out there making parts for SB lathes, but mostly '40s and on. There are always used parts on ebay, but you may have to be patient. The presence of the grinder sitting near the tailstock gives me pause; grit and machine tools don't go together well. It all depends on the price.

 

[Asport]

Apron parts for the gap beds might be difficult to find. They moved the hand wheel to the right side to accommodate a larger swing. I don't know if the half nuts from a non-gap lathe would fit. None of my parts catalogs have gap lathes listed.

I would probably stay away from the overhead converted countershaft/line shaft models . At some point you'll need to fabricate something to make it work.

Did you get a serial number from the seller? That will determine the year.

 

[Packard V8]

I would probably stay away from the overhead converted countershaft/line shaft models . At some point you'll need to fabricate something to make it work.

Fabricating something is sort of the point of having a lathe, isn't it.? In a home shop, lathes, mills, drill presses, grinders, et al, are all fabrication tools.



jack vines

 

[larry_g]

A bit of a different idea here since you didn't give an asking price, your skill level, or the type of work you intend to do.

Assuming that you are a novice and the lathe is in the $5-$800 range then go for it. Consider it the cost of buy in to an education. What you learn from having any lathe in the shop is of great value. It will teach you what can and can't be done on a lathe, and give you skills to assess your next purchase. Any cutters, measuring tools, and other non specific machine tools will pass on to your next lathe. At the price above you can always recoup your investment.

Now for the class of work you want to do? Do you know what your going to build or is this a want with no specific need? For some that lathe is totally useless, as said above, because they are working in a realm of +/- .001" and have to be fast doing it. Others like to tinker and may have to make a bushing driver or such to no tight tolerance. Each persons needs are different. What are yours?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Robert Haas]

just because a tool is old does not mean it can not attain high levels of precision.

My 100 year old Southy will still turn to a thou. and allow me to achieve the accuracy as long as I respect the limitations and work with the machines attributes.

 

[Asport]

Fabricating something is sort of the point of having a lathe, isn't it.? In a home shop, lathes, mills, drill presses, grinders, et al, are all fabrication tools.



jack vines

That is true, and if you don't have the proper equipment, it's an excuse to buy it

 

[tombell572]

I should have noted this in my earlier post--I see the section to fill the gap is not present, unless that's it on the floor turned upside down to the left of the large chuck. Asport mentions a good point on carriage parts since the hand wheel and feed lever are reversed on the gap beds--it may affect interchangablity with conventional S/B carriage parts. The photo seems to present a machine that is in operating condition and fairly clean. The overhead drive appears all there although no mention is made of the motor and the drive belt seems to be fairly new leather. Twelve inch swing is a nice size--I'd give it serious consideration, noting all of the good advise written above.

Tom B.

 

[JHuston]

For what it's worth, that isn't a South Bend overhead drive, but a shop made retrofit, probably done when the machine was removed from the original line shaft. That being said, make sure that the pulley sizes are matching ( you should be able to set the belt on any of the steps and wind up with about the same belt tension). You have a quick change gearbox, which is very handy because you'll more be likely to use the correct feed speed if you don't have to take fifteen minutes to change out gears manually. Take a good look at the headstock; fresh paint on an old machine may indicate a recent rebuild, or it could be a red flag for someone's hack job. Because of the style of headstock bushing, it's easier to replace them if they are worn, but a damaged spindle or back gear is another matter.
If the ways don't look like the bottom of a shoe, the gears still have all their teeth and the half nuts in the apron aren't worn out, that could prove to be a capable lathe for making small parts.
-James Huston

Also, it's probably a 13", not a 12". I could be wrong, but I don't believe they made a 12", at least that early on.