Bolster
Well-known member
Excellent save, dude! You done good. I got a tear in my eye.
Vintage Tool Folks ONLY
- Thread starter Bull
- Start date
SMKS
Well-known member
Good work, but I have to say that Evapo-rust is far superior to vinegar.
I had been using vinegar, but I had to be careful not to leave tools in too long, or it would start taking off chrome.
I finally decided to shell out the $18 at Harbor Freight (with a 20% off coupon, of course) for a gallon of Evapo-rust. I have been really happy with it.
Here are pics of a Wright double open end that had pretty significant rust problems, but lost quite a bit of chrome off non-rusty areas because of a vinegar bath.
This Proto Los Angeles also lost quite a bit of chrome in a vinegar bath.
I had been using vinegar, but I had to be careful not to leave tools in too long, or it would start taking off chrome.
I finally decided to shell out the $18 at Harbor Freight (with a 20% off coupon, of course) for a gallon of Evapo-rust. I have been really happy with it.
Here are pics of a Wright double open end that had pretty significant rust problems, but lost quite a bit of chrome off non-rusty areas because of a vinegar bath.
This Proto Los Angeles also lost quite a bit of chrome in a vinegar bath.
I really do not think that vinegar eats chrome. What happens is that rust creeps. So, on the surface you see rusty areas neighboring chrome areas, and you think "oh hey, those orange/brown spots are all the rust I have." In reality, the rust has infiltrated the metal under the chrome next to the visibly rusty spots. The chrome seems intact, but really its bond to the tool has been compromised. The vinegar eats the rust under the chrome and the chrome loses its already compromised grip and floats away.
Vinegar is super-cheap, easy to find locally, and does a bang-up job. It also can be used for myriad other household purposes, whereas ER is a one-trick pony.
But hey, we can agree to disagree. I don't want to add ER/vinegar to the list of heavily divisive issues already on here, like SO/HF and USA/Foreign tools. We have enough strife!
Vinegar is super-cheap, easy to find locally, and does a bang-up job. It also can be used for myriad other household purposes, whereas ER is a one-trick pony.
But hey, we can agree to disagree. I don't want to add ER/vinegar to the list of heavily divisive issues already on here, like SO/HF and USA/Foreign tools. We have enough strife!
SMKS
Well-known member
I acknowledge that this "rust creep" really does happen. I can understand chrome around rust coming off, but the chrome loss on these two tools seems more than that.
To be fair, it could also be my technique. If you are careful and don't leave the tools in vinegar too long, you could have very good results. However, sometimes a really long bath is needed to get the deep-down rust.
I should also clarify that the chrome came off with a scrubbing. After a vinegar bath I would give tools a good scrub. This is when all the loosened chrome came off
How dare you contradict me!
Kidding. I'm here to learn/share as much about bringing old tools back to life as I can.
Bolster
Well-known member
Wish I could find that thread about chelation where the poster said that vinegar actually did eat the metal, and chelation (such as EOR) does not...which stands to reason, if people are using acids (like vinegar) to "sharpen" files via eating (etching) the steel. You can't sharpen a file with EOR, as there is no steel destruction.
I have also read statements from various sources regarding the problems of flash-rust after using acid.
AHA, found it:
The guy who posted that sounds like a chemist, if you read his postings...but he didn't stick around long so I never got to learn more from him. Anyway, in his thread, he posted how to "make your own EOR," very inexpensively.
This post is intended in the most friendly, filial manner possible.
Bull gets great results, but you would never catch me using vinegar for rust removal. Right tool for the job, and all that...
I have also read statements from various sources regarding the problems of flash-rust after using acid.
AHA, found it:
The guy who posted that sounds like a chemist, if you read his postings...but he didn't stick around long so I never got to learn more from him. Anyway, in his thread, he posted how to "make your own EOR," very inexpensively.
This post is intended in the most friendly, filial manner possible.
Bull gets great results, but you would never catch me using vinegar for rust removal. Right tool for the job, and all that...
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Check out the pits on the underside of this Herbrand ratchet, a few inches south of the head. Those are the deepest pits (really some areas are more like chasms) that I have dealt with on an old tool to date. As you can see, the vinegar got the rust out of those areas, and I only had the ratchet in the vinegar for a couple hours max. I think the key is to remove it frequently and work the tool with a wire brush. It really attacks the rust. I brushed the whole tool, and didn't see any chrome coming off because of it.
I dunno, maybe my experience isn't broad enough yet and I am missing something. Future rehabilitations will tell the tale!
I dunno, maybe my experience isn't broad enough yet and I am missing something. Future rehabilitations will tell the tale!
I acknowledge that this "rust creep" really does happen. I can understand chrome around rust coming off, but the chrome loss on these two tools seems more than that.
To be fair, it could also be my technique. If you are careful and don't leave the tools in vinegar too long, you could have very good results. However, sometimes a really long bath is needed to get the deep-down rust.
I should also clarify that the chrome came off with a scrubbing. After a vinegar bath I would give tools a good scrub. This is when all the loosened chrome came off
How dare you contradict me!
Kidding. I'm here to learn/share as much about bringing old tools back to life as I can.
arkangel06
Banned
Thank you, my good man.
How exactly would you get this solar-shine? What's your method?
Buffing wheel on a Cincinnati #2 cutter grinder and some nu-vite s grade for good measure
I would also sand blast and black oxide the guts then lube them up real good.
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Buffing wheel on a Cincinnati #2 cutter grinder and some nu-vite s grade for good measure
I would also sand blast and black oxide the guts then lube them up real good.
There are some words in there that I don't understand, but it sounds wicked badass.
One day, I will have to set up and lean to use a polisher. One day...!
arkangel06
Banned
Im trying to take pictures of some of the stuff I have polished but I keep failing
Im trying to take pictures of some of the stuff I have polished but I keep failing
Make sure you get some BEFORE and after pics. I love those!
arkangel06
Banned
Before
After
Before
After
After
Before
After
arkangel06
Banned
The ball peen head was hard to polish because it was not smooth but the screwdriver I reground only took 5 minutes to polish.
beelsr
Well-known member
Bruce Lancaster
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 1,642
Here is a tree older than the forest itself;
the years of its life defy reckoning.
Its roots have seen the upheavals of hill and valley,
its leaves have known the changes of wind and frost.
The world laughs at its shoddy exterior
and cares nothing for the fine grain of the wood inside.
Stripped free of flesh and hide,
all that remains is the core of truth.
Han-shan, eighth century.
the years of its life defy reckoning.
Its roots have seen the upheavals of hill and valley,
its leaves have known the changes of wind and frost.
The world laughs at its shoddy exterior
and cares nothing for the fine grain of the wood inside.
Stripped free of flesh and hide,
all that remains is the core of truth.
Han-shan, eighth century.
Still here! Yes, I am a scientist. Not a chemist per se, but certainly understand the science here. I have been messing around quite a bit with rust removal. The best thing about chelation (vs. acid), is that you can leave it in the solution indefinitely, without any risk to the tool. For those of us who tend to space things off because the rest of life gets in the way, it is a great feature.
It is true that acetic acid (vinegar), or any other acid for that matter, eats both iron and steel, it is probably not a major problem if you are willing to pull things out and monitor progress regularly.
Electrolysis is probably the "gold standard", and is actually quite easy to do, but again requires at least a little bit of monitoring.
I did a bit more investigation of EOR and its kin, and found out that in addition to chelating agents (things that "**** up" oxidized iron), they also have a bit of micronized wax for coating purposes. It turns out you can purchase this (very cheap) from amazon. It is a high temperature wax. When melted, you can dip tools in the wax for a really rust proof, water proof seal. This is best for things that you will use quite infrequently, or things that may get salt water exposure, for example. It is also good for really old stuff that is made primarily from iron rather than modern alloys.
Because it is a high temperature wax, and you can warm your tool up (get your brains out of the gutter, guys) prior to dipping, the coating is very thin, unlike what you would get with a regular wax. It penetrates archival iron (i.e. real antiques!) extremely well.
Hope this is helpful!
Dan (marksd1)
It is true that acetic acid (vinegar), or any other acid for that matter, eats both iron and steel, it is probably not a major problem if you are willing to pull things out and monitor progress regularly.
Electrolysis is probably the "gold standard", and is actually quite easy to do, but again requires at least a little bit of monitoring.
I did a bit more investigation of EOR and its kin, and found out that in addition to chelating agents (things that "**** up" oxidized iron), they also have a bit of micronized wax for coating purposes. It turns out you can purchase this (very cheap) from amazon. It is a high temperature wax. When melted, you can dip tools in the wax for a really rust proof, water proof seal. This is best for things that you will use quite infrequently, or things that may get salt water exposure, for example. It is also good for really old stuff that is made primarily from iron rather than modern alloys.
Because it is a high temperature wax, and you can warm your tool up (get your brains out of the gutter, guys) prior to dipping, the coating is very thin, unlike what you would get with a regular wax. It penetrates archival iron (i.e. real antiques!) extremely well.
Hope this is helpful!
Dan (marksd1)
Bolster
Well-known member
I believe the correct terminology is, "I are a scientist." Adds to your credibility if you use appropriate grammar.
Anyhoo, glad you are back in town. I's afeard you had left us. Check an incoming PM.
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caper
Well-known member
One thing I've noticed in using both vinegar and EOR is that they both have a very similar smell once you have derusted tools in them.I've always been curious if the EOR is a mixture of vinegar and some other chemicals.
hguerrero
Well-known member
this made me chuckle...
Bolster
Well-known member
Wouldn't surprise me, as I've noticed my EOR acquires a smell after use, and gets stinkier as it gets older.
Lump
Well-known member
Lump
Well-known member
Damn......I don't think I would have told that........
Yeah, don't tell her I said that!
She might be "disappointed" in me. Uh-oh!
Is that her I hear coming down the hall....? YEP! I hear knuckles dragging the floor! Yikes! Gotta run, guys! Talk at ya later!!!!! 
thesilverone
Well-known member
Yeah, don't tell her I said that!
Uh-oh!
lol classic!
Bolster
Well-known member
I think he's a goner. You don't diss the wife and live to tell the tale...