Vintage vise ID?

[spongerich]

I picked up this 5" swivel jaw vise today at an estate sale.

After stripping off the first 50 coats of paint, I still haven't found any manufacturer's markings. I'm 100% sure it's not a Chinese knockoff, but it's fairly odd to find one unmarked like this.

It's in pretty good shape.. the jaws are a little worn (and appear to be pinned in) and there's a 2" hairline crack at the very rear of the slide. Naturally, the jaw retaining pin is stuck pretty good, but it doesn't appear rusted in so I'll get it out eventually.

Jaws are 5" and she weighs in at 98lbs.

Anyone recognize the shape?

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[WWIIjeep]

Prentiss.

 

[sharkytm]

Yup. Definitely a Prentiss swivel jaw. Nice vise!

 

[SweetD]

Check for markings just behind the stuck pin towards the back, on the swivel jaw, or on the main body of the vise on the top, just behind where the jaw swivels. Sometimes it's lightly imprinted there.

I say Prentiss too.

Dave

 

[Outlawmws]

Agreed, Prentiss, and probably in the Bulldog family at that weight.

 

[Big-Foot]

Where's the beef?

Right on that bench?

Wow...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Agreed, Prentiss, and probably in the Bulldog family at that weight.

Bulldog's were fixed jaws. The Iron Workers' had the swivel jaw.

The body looks like a Prentiss, but the handle and knob which the handle goes through looks like a Reed? Also it looks like fixed jaws, which is also another Reed thing that I don't think Prentiss did?

I've seen some Prentiss' plain like yours, with only the word "Prentiss" on the TOP side on the main body. I.E. Look at the vice from the front, behind the pin that you pull out and the swivel part, that small area that is visible that is part of the static body. It *kind* of looks like yours is worn smooth though.

Baaahhh... Box it up and ship it to me, I'll take that POS off your hands!

 

[spongerich]

Thanks everyone... Prentiss was my first thought as well.

I've been beating on, heating, oiling that #$%*&@! swivel pin for an hour now. I think I'm about to admit defeat and drill a small hole through the base and stick a piece of drill rod down so I can pound it straight out. Pulling it is a huge PITA since they made the lip on the pin rather small. I'd prefer not to destroy it if at all possible... I can make a new one but my lathe skills aren't that great, so it'll take me all friggen day!

$50 of my hard earned money and all I get for it is grief!

Well.. grief and a huge vise

 

[JASTECH]

Tell me about this "Bulldog" vice please. Is it stamped with the name? I ask because I raise American PitBull Terriers and have produced 3 International Champions and 7 Champions so far. Just thought a Bulldog vice won't eat much, lol

 

[EOC_Jason]

I've been beating on, heating, oiling that #$%*&@! swivel pin for an hour now. I think I'm about to admit defeat and drill a small hole through the base and stick a piece of drill rod down so I can pound it straight out. Pulling it is a huge PITA since they made the lip on the pin rather small. I'd prefer not to destroy it if at all possible... I can make a new one but my lathe skills aren't that great, so it'll take me all friggen day!

Just put some penetrating oil on there and let it soak for a day or two. Patience....

Tell me about this "Bulldog" vice please.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Prentiss+Bulldog

 

[gilbo]

Thanks everyone... Prentiss was my first thought as well.

I've been beating on, heating, oiling that #$%*&@! swivel pin for an hour now. I think I'm about to admit defeat and drill a small hole through the base and stick a piece of drill rod down so I can pound it straight out. Pulling it is a huge PITA since they made the lip on the pin rather small. I'd prefer not to destroy it if at all possible... I can make a new one but my lathe skills aren't that great, so it'll take me all friggen day!

$50 of my hard earned money and all I get for it is grief!

Well.. grief and a huge vise

spongerich, life is about making things easier when u can

start with ELECTROLYSIS, b4 u start drilling this , beating that

it will clean it right up for starters, rust, paint

 

[spongerich]

spongerich, life is about making things easier when u can start with ELECTROLYSIS, b4 u start drilling this , beating that
it will clean it right up for starters, rust, paint

This one's not a good candidate for electrolysis since there's almost no rust anywhere except for on the handle...

Just put some penetrating oil on there and let it soak for a day or two. Patience....

BUT I NEED IT FREE NOW!!!

Actually, I did flip it and fill the underside with some PB Blaster, but the problem is that it's really tough to get a good grip on the pin. I suppose could machine a little puller (like a miniature pickle fork) but popping a 1/4 hole through the bottom will take like 2 minutes and it should be a simple matter to drive the pin out from the bottom.

 

[EOC_Jason]

You could drill and thread a hole in the top of the pin. Then use (or make) like a hammer puller that would thread in there.

Patience... It would be a shame to ruin a 100yr old pin because you want instant gratification.

 

[WWIIjeep]

Bulldog's were fixed jaws. The Iron Workers' had the swivel jaw.

True, but the "Ironworker" name came later. Early Prentiss swivel jaw vises were in their machinists' vise line (a level above Bulldog). The Ironworker name seems to have appeared after Prentiss discontinued the fixed-jaw models of their first tier machinists' vises (Bulldog and Monarch being their second and third tier, respectively).

The body looks like a Prentiss, but the handle and knob which the handle goes through looks like a Reed? Also it looks like fixed jaws, which is also another Reed thing that I don't think Prentiss did?l

The body is the tell. Reed swivel-jaw bodies have a rounded shoulder that turned down right behind the swivel. Prentiss swivel-jaw bodies have a square shoulder that extends further back behind the swivel.

Another tell was the OP's mention of a crack at the back of the slide-bar. I've seen more Prentiss vises with minor to major cracks back there than on all other brands put together. I don't know whether that's because Prentiss slide-bar castings may be slightly thinner on top than other brands are, or because the average age of Prentise vises is generally higher (therefore more years of potential abuse), or because original owners of Prentiss vises were just naturally fond of using the slide-bar as an anvil.

The knob shape on the handle end of the screw is a shared feature of Prentiss and Reed.

 

[Catalyze]

Is it a Prentiss? Yes and no......but mostly yes.....except for the sort of no. That crazy bunch at Prentiss years ago did some funny marketing. They made the Prentiss line complete with markings and some extra bracing in their molds. This is the Prentiss line of Iron Workers and Bulldogs etc...that we mostly know. They charged $**.00 for these vises.

They also cast up an unmarked line of vises with not one maker mark on it...save the main nut (sometimes). If you look at these swivel model vises, they have the exact same "bench" numbers that a marked Prentiss has. These numbers were like serial numbers (sort of) and were stamped on the swivel jaw, and the main body. That way, once fitted, the jaw and body stayed together. If you look at these unmarked Prentiss vises, they will not usually have exactly the same casting webs near the slide support where it meets the main body.

Don't forget that Prentiss also made up Monarch brand vises and even cast in the PV Co into them. I have a catalog somewhere that has a display rack that Prentiss offered dealers and could be had with the Prentiss logo on it for the marked Prentiss brand and a "generic" vise rack for unmarked vises. The idea was that a store like Coast to Coast or Ace or whoever back then, could sell a cheaper vise for the cost conscious folks and it wouldn't have the Prentiss warranty, name, etc. You could place it next to a Prentiss rack if you wanted to show the stronger body and why you should pay more for a Prentiss.

Both are made by Prentiss, the parts are interchangeable, the designs are the same with the exception of some casting webbing. They were asssembled by the same folks using the same serial "parts mating" numbers. They were just made to be maybe 10% cheaper or so to still make money from customers who wanted a less expensive vise.

I will toss in some photos to show you what I mean.
Craig

This is a pair of numbers...the main body will also have a matching number. The number for this vise is "80". The slide, swivel jaw, and main body will all match from the factory on both marked and unmarked logo vises.
View media item 23588
These main nuts are interchangeable. One is from an unmarked Prentiss and one is from a marked logo Prentiss.
View media item 18469
Look at this unmarked Prentiss. Notice where the slide goes into the main body at the junction with the slide support. There is no "web" like a gusset there.
View media item 23589
Look at the same location on this marked logo Prentiss. See the "web" cast in? It is just in front of the "K" in York or the "2" in Model 22. It is a gusset to tie the slide support to the main body. All my logo Prentiss vises have that gusset. None of the unmarked ones that I have seen have that support cast in.
View media item 13445
All this is to say that Yes it is a Prentiss vise. It just wasn't a "logo" line Prentiss vise. It was an "in house" line of Prentiss vise. All the parts will interchange. Grats on a nice 5 inch Model 21 Prentiss vise!!
Craig

 

[spongerich]

You could drill and thread a hole in the top of the pin. Then use (or make) like a hammer puller that would thread in there.

Patience... It would be a shame to ruin a 100yr old pin because you want instant gratification.

Which is exactly why I'm inclined to drive it out from the bottom. There's already a 1/4" hole in the body for the pin that retains the nut... I don't think another one 1" further from the front is going to hurt anything.

 

[spongerich]

Is it a Prentiss? Yes and no.....

That picture of the nut confirms the ID for sure. There's a 5 stamped on the side of mine in the same font.

 

[SweetD]

Craig, you are one sick *******. I mean with your vise vice, of course.



Dave

 

[EOC_Jason]

Maybe it's just all the coats of paint on the handle and knob that make it look fatter than it really is. Those other pics posted by Catalyze show the usual slimmer knob that I'm used to seeing on a labeled Prentiss. Very good information posted, I will most definitely remember what you have said. That also explains that light blue 4" Prentiss Vise on eBay that has no markings. It looks just as you say without the webbing. I just realized too it has a little knobbier front than the usual Prentiss'... Maybe they had someone else make the handles and screws? Or at least made on a different machine?

 

[Catalyze]

Another thing that I have noticed about the "non logo" Prentiss vises (and I hear the Won't he ever shut up?). They tend to have cast in jaw faces where Prentiss would make a point of advertising their jaw faces were easy to replace. I think that the cast in faces were cheaper since they had no machining of ledges or screw holes. It was just another thing that a merchant could point out to try and "upsell" to a logo Prentiss.
Craig (shutting up now.....briefly)

 

[EOC_Jason]

Nonono... Share the knowledge man.... Anything an expert has to share I read intently. It is so fascinating to learn about these and sadly most of the people around from those days are long gone as is much of the paperwork.

I agree with you on that point too... I noticed it too but didn't say anything in my last post. However in my first post I said that was one reason I thought it might be a reed because of the fixed inserts, but I also saw your pics above and some on eBay with the same thing with the jaws so figured it had to be just a difference in design, but the cost savings does make sense.

 

[bigcaddy]

The one thing that is throwing me off of a positive ID is the front nut. Prentiss vises do not have that little dimple in the center of them like the OP's does. The profile does not match either. Its too short and stubby to be an original Prentiss unless its a replacement or the no name assembled vises used whatever parts they had laying around.

 

[EOC_Jason]

The one thing that is throwing me off of a positive ID is the front nut. Prentiss vises do not have that little dimple in the center of them like the OP's does. The profile does not match either. Its too short and stubby to be an original Prentiss unless its a replacement or the no name assembled vises used whatever parts they had laying around.

I know what you mean, it's something that is kind of nagging me too. But if you look at Catalyze's two vises on the first page, you can see the profile between his two is different. Albiet not as knobby as the OP's...

However, here are a couple pics from one that has been on eBay, it doesn't have any Prentiss markings on it either, but clearly it is a Prentiss. I has the same knobby handle as the OP's. My guess is either 1. They intentionally made the profile different just so it didn't have that 100% Prentiss look. 2. Just a side effect of a different machine making the knobs. 3. Maybe the metal was a cheaper quality and the thin profile like on the named Prentiss' caused breakage or bending. 4. The knobs and maybe main screw were outsourced to another company (to reduce costs?)...

Again, those are just theories.

 

[Outlawmws]

The one thing that is throwing me off of a positive ID is the front nut. Prentiss vises do not have that little dimple in the center of them like the OP's does. The profile does not match either. Its too short and stubby to be an original Prentiss unless its a replacement or the no name assembled vises used whatever parts they had laying around.

I'm not so sure that's true guys, My P. Bulldog, (5") HAS that dimple on the main nut, and I'm 99.99% positive it's 100% Prentiss. I think htat may be a feature that was either a) early in production. or b) short lived in production.

The reason I'm confident mine is all original, is my Bulldog is pretty much unmolested and I'm pretty sure that includes original paint, no serious rash from oppses on the jaws, minimal wear on the jaw faces, the handle isn't bent...

 

[Catalyze]

my Bulldog is pretty much unmolestedQUOTE]

Outlawmws - Keep up the good effort with your Bulldog....once molested they bark all the time.
Craig

 

[bigcaddy]

I'm not so sure that's true guys, My P. Bulldog, (5") HAS that dimple on the main nut, and I'm 99.99% positive it's 100% Prentiss. I think htat may be a feature that was either a) early in production. or b) short lived in production.

The reason I'm confident mine is all original, is my Bulldog is pretty much unmolested and I'm pretty sure that includes original paint, no serious rash from oppses on the jaws, minimal wear on the jaw faces, the handle isn't bent...

Its possible that it was a short term detail of production. I checked all of mine, (8) and not one had the dimple nor the stubby profile. Then again, all of mine are clearly marked as Prentiss

 

[Outlawmws]

Its possible that it was a short term detail of production. I checked all of mine, (8) and not one had the dimple nor the stubby profile. Then again, all of mine are clearly marked as Prentiss

My Bulldog is clearly marked for both company and model. My Monarch is also, but does not have the dimple in the screw head.

 

[vetactor]

Been reading through and learning from all the advise. However, have not been able to ID my recently acquired vise. I'll try again with more information. It's has a round nose like some Wiltons. The slide is a cylinder. Cast numerals and letters say 61/2" jaws made in USA. Stamped numerals on different body parts end in a different number. There is a larger number which is 1765. Deduction from your posts indicate the 65 is the jaw width. The vise is around 70 lbs and looks quite stout. It has some bluish paint still on it. The jaw handle appears a pitted bright chrome color. It has a swivel base with two handle locks. It has pipe jaws. The main jaws are simple bar with two set screws in each side.

It appears is pretty good shape: no cracks, no rounded jaws and just some minor thin rust. The dynamic jaws move in and out with one finger pressure with no wobble.
Just got it yesterday at Goodwill, a nice tool to have.

Any guesses?

thank you

 

[vetactor]

Ouch, I forgot. The vise of my post has an M 1 stamped on it above the longer parts numerals.

 

[drivesitfar]

Vet: does it look something like my Wilton in these pictures? can you use the paperclip above where you wrote in your information to attach a few pictures of your vise?

by the way welcome to Garage Journal and it sounds like you have a great vise. did you know Wilton made that style for Snap On and painted it red and Snap on put their sticker on it?

 

[Outlawmws]

Post pics, but I think its a Wilton