vinyl composition tile VCT Failure in garage

[Paul V]

I installed my VCT approximately 9 days before the failure. The concrete underneath was grinded down, sealed with a water based sealer, and topped off with a self leveling cement. I used the recommended trowel with Armstrong S750 glue to complete the install.

On Saturday I lifted my car and found that the jack made impressions in the tile, so I used a scrap tile between the jack and the floor. It worked great.

When I lowered the car back down, and the suspension compressed, the tires pushed outward.....everything looked fine. The next morning this is what I found.

WTF? Did I do something wrong?

 

[jskco]

Paul,

Let me start by saying that I don’t sell VCT tile because I do not believe it is the best solution for a garage. A LOT of people in this forum disagree with me and have had a lot of success with it.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way ;-)

I could see a where maybe a couple of things happened. Perhaps your top coat or sealant was still curing. I do not know where you are or what part of the country you are in temperature wise but that is a possibility. It is also possible that one of the two lacked adhesion and that if you lifted the tile up you would say where the tile stayed put and everything underneath it moved.

That may sound crazy but we had an epoxy job where a guy sent in a sheet (of epoxy) he pulled off the floor that had a layer of sealant and a layer of concrete dust like you would not believe.


It may also be that you did not give the glue enough time. How much time elapsed between installation and use?

Again, I do not sell VCT tile and to some extent I am taking a stab in the dark based on experience with other products.

 

[menz300]

I will admit to not knowing a lot about the VCT tile. I think you might have adhesion problems as if it was me doing the work I think I would have put down my self leveling cementious topping. The topping would have bonded better to the original concrete and then seal that surface. If we do an acid stain job where we put a top coat down we rough up original concrete to get a strong bond then put topping down. Next day come back and stain project and seal it lastly. Just a thought.

 

[Paul V]

The sealant and self leveling should have cured. I installed the VCT 30 days after the Cement install.

I'm in Long Island New York, and the Temps have been in the 50s at night 70s by day. My Garage is insulated with the home furnace located inside the garage. So It gets warmer than the outside temps.

The self leveling product was not completely smooth. It had some ruffness to it...

I used a water base sealer. Should I have used a Latex based sealer instead?

I guess I'll give it more time to set and cure before I start jacking the car up.

 

[chad pickens]

I had vct professionally installed in an enclosed trailer years ago. everytime I parked the race car the vct moved.Everytime I jacked the car up it moved I could not keep it in place with sticky tires!

 

[Paul V]

I had vct professionally installed in an enclosed trailer years ago. everytime I parked the race car the vct moved.Everytime I jacked the car up it moved I could not keep it in place with sticky tires!

Yeah I guess I'm gonna have this continuing problem. I was going from street tires to my AutoX sticky set of tires.

 

[Mac Attack]

I installed my VCT approximately 9 days before the failure. The concrete underneath was grinded down, sealed with a water based sealer, and topped off with a self leveling cement. I used the recommended trowel with Armstrong S750 glue to complete the install.

On Saturday I lifted my car and found that the jack made impressions in the tile, so I used a scrap tile between the jack and the floor. It worked great.

When I lowered the car back down, and the suspension compressed, the tires pushed outward.....everything looked fine. The next morning this is what I found.

WTF? Did I do something wrong?

It doesn't look like the tiles have bonded. Once bonded, tiles are almost impossible to get off the floor. You pretty much have to use a heat gun and spend a lot of time scraping. I have about two tiles after more than a years service that need to be replaced, but I'm waiting till I get a few more and then do them at once since it's such a PITA.

I've raised/lowered my daily-driver up many times in the summer and have never had problems. Kumho Ecsta MX's, 225 width. Even a 4000lb "minivan" with 225 width sticky tires (I never would have thought Goodyear Comfortread tires were this sticky) hasn't given me any problems. I've turned a lot on them too.

Maybe you could try to replace one of the tiles that dented to give you an idea how easily they come out. You shouldn't be able to get it out without a heat gun.... That should tell you if it was the sealer/leveling compound interfering.

BTW: I recommend you use a block of wood instead of an extra tile under jack stands, etc. I used extra tiles but had problems with them sticking together occasionally if left up for more than half a day.

Sorry to hear about that. I recall a VCT installer on here (I think he replied to gb70's VCT threads) that said it wasn't so much the warm temps that were required to activate the adhesive - it was circulating the air.

 

[Mac Attack]

Sorry - just read your original post again.

You lowered your car onto the tile with sticky autox tires and left it overnight???!!!!

Did you notice your car sitting up 2" higher than normal ride height after lowering? That's because the suspension hasn't settled yet and you are effectively placing all of the vehicle weight onto sideloads in the tires. If all four tires have equal loading, your ~3500lb vehicle was exerting a good 500lbs onto each of the tiles your tires were contacting. Because your tires are sticky, the tiles slipped instead. No wonder one shifted over.

At least push your car back and forth in the garage a few times to let the suspension settle instead of leaving it sitting up in the air with a high side load like that. As you push it back and forth, you'll hear the tires slipping on the tiles. If not, move it outside and let your sticky tires slip out there.

Your tile is most likely fine!

This is a pic of my daily-driver and the spot it has been parked over for more than a year. If you place the tires over a black tile, you won't notice any yellowing. The car has been raised and lowered in this position countless times with no problems.

 

[Paul V]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

Hey Mac, my wife told me the same thing when she saw it in the morning. "What were you thinking?!" I should not have left the car over night without the suspension settling. BTW Why is your daily driver so dam clean?

Anyway, I replaced the tiles now I need to seal and finish the new ones. I'm not happy

 

[Mac Attack]

Yeah, there are a few nuances with the VCT, but it's a lot cheaper than Racedeck or similar products. Also, good epoxy is expensive, and I wanted the diamond checkerboard look.

We just have to deal with:
Rubber stains
Slipperyness when wet (like epoxy)
The occasional stripping/polishing

Just don't let your wife find you mopping the garage floor to often... I catch a lot of **** for that.


BTW: I was trying to remove 18 year old underbody coating that was chipping off. Took me 3 hours to partially finish one wheel well! I'm waiting on new coilovers to complete the cleaning process.

 

[TonyF]

Ive had the same kinda issue. My car had the front end jacked up. It was fine for about two days in that position. Come the third day the back tires basically peeled the tiles right up. Had to replace 'em.

Didnt think it was gonna be an issue since it held up so well the first day.

Really, I dont think I'll ever do VCT again. Looks wise it is definitely a 10 but durability is very questionable.

 

[Paul V]

Ive had the same kinda issue. My car had the front end jacked up. It was fine for about two days in that position. Come the third day the back tires basically peeled the tiles right up. Had to replace 'em.

Didnt think it was gonna be an issue since it held up so well the first day.

Really, I dont think I'll ever do VCT again. Looks wise it is definitely a 10 but durability is very questionable.

Yeah seems like you really have to be carefull with it.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

You guys do know about epoxy adhesive... right?

PS... we don't make it...

 

[Paul V]

You guys do know about epoxy adhesive... right?

PS... we don't make it...

I didnt know this

 

[TonyF]

I also dropped a huge wheel bearing on the VCT. It hit right on the edge cracking it.

It was no small wheel bearing but still...its all form not much function

 

[comp]

I also dropped a huge wheel bearing on the VCT. It hit right on the edge cracking it.

It was no small wheel bearing but still...its all form not much function

did it hurt the bearing ??

 

[PoorOwner]

Sorry to hear about the trouble.. is it just me or it sounds like a huge pain in the rear work on your car with VCT tiles? I mean you guys seem to have to exercise big caution to just jack up the car.

For someone like the OP who needs to tweak the car often for events.. it just sound unsuitable.
If you don't like the tiles, how can you change into something else (epoxy.. race deck etc) since they were glued down..

 

[Mac Attack]

You could always Racedeck over the VCT.

One user on here (gb70 ?) did epoxy over his VCT over a year ago. I wonder how that held up?

 

[Paul V]

VCT looks great but I needs attention and maintenance.

Here is a pic of the final product.

 

[moogoob]

looks fantastic.... I noticed the wheels before I saw the logo on the wall.

What kind of maint is required?

 

[gsport]

seems to me there is are lot more positive posts about VCT, than not...... i think i'm still going to do VCT in my shop... jim

 

[Mlynch]

All of you VCT guys would be well on your way to a much better floor(getting rid of your problems) if you would do a high build coating over the vct... it works just fine. GREAT actually. The look of VCT the durability of a professionally donr floor. Obviously the vct should be properly installed first. Then after it has cured for a while... Either a UV resistant water clear epoxy or a polyaspartic (make sure 100 percent solids). Also the vct needs to be meticulously striped out... even if it is new but especially if it is old. Just thought you guys should know.

 

[intrepidtek]

Can you provide any manufacturers or recommended products for doing this? How is it applied? Something I can do?

 

[Mlynch]

You COULD do it yourself... thats up to you.

Lots of manufacter's I am sure wolverine has a uv stable water clear 100 percent solids epoxy... personally i like the polyurea's better myself. Strip out the floor... if you dont know how to do this then head to your nearest janitorial supplier to get the chemicals rent the machine and get some how to info. or have a company come in and do it... ussually very inexpensive. Make sure they do not apply any finish/wax afterwards.

After you have the material and the floor prepped it is simply a matter of rolling/squeegeeing the product out on the floor. (follow manufacter's install direction).

Let cure... and viola checkerboard look with the strength and durability of an industrial floor. MUCH much lees maintenance and staining. Gloss lasts years not months... I would also imagine it would cure the pop up issues... and so on.

We dont do this on a regular basis but we have done it...
Good luck

 

[PoorOwner]

I have seen this kind of tiles in working electrical labs and it looks bad after a couple of years, that's from techs that simply walk around, nothing heavy duty, not even a hammer is in there.

In a working garage the grit and metal shaving is going to sink right in the tiles..
Maybe you improve it by putting epoxy clear over it, but then you are putting on epoxy why not use epoxy from the start?

Also reminds me too much of the fast food restaurant have this kind of floor.. but not in the kitchen where they work.

 

[JB740i]

I do like the look of them and was certantly thinking about them. Seems like they'd do better in the attached garage with just cars parking on them then in the soon to come detached in the back yard.

Or maybe could do part of the detached that wouldn't have the truck parked on it. Dunno

Want a lift sometime in the future (probably 10 years...bummer) and that would at least eliminate the problems with the jack stands.

 

[Mlynch]

I have seen this kind of tiles in working electrical labs and it looks bad after a couple of years, that's from techs that simply walk around, nothing heavy duty, not even a hammer is in there.

In a working garage the grit and metal shaving is going to sink right in the tiles..
Maybe you improve it by putting epoxy clear over it, but then you are putting on epoxy why not use epoxy from the start?

Also reminds me too much of the fast food restaurant have this kind of floor.. but not in the kitchen where they work.

Why not use epoxy from the start? Have you ever "painted" a black and white checkerboard floor by hand before? If that is the look someone wants black and white vct installs much faster and easier and is always perfect no mess ups or seam issues. If this wasn't enough your knees, back, and patience will thank you in the long run after trying.

The vct acts more like a decorative element than a wearable surface...

 

[jxxxoxxxe]

has anyone ever done the epoxy over the vct? I wonder how well that would work?

 

[PoorOwner]

My concern is not about the looks and neat checker and borders you can achieve easily with these tiles.

Chances are that if you lower your car onto the jackstand and a little lateral motion will pop the tile out.. as the original poster had this happened, and I have also heard of the exact same failure from other members.

It sounds like you have actual experience with this, are you saying 100% solid epoxy apply over VCT will fix this issue.. but I am skeptical the epoxy on top will do enough to stop tiles from shifting.

 

[comp]

i have done take-up that i have to use a hammer and chisel to pop /break them up that mastic was tough

 

[Mlynch]

has anyone ever done the epoxy over the vct? I wonder how well that would work?

My concern is not about the looks and neat checker and borders you can achieve easily with these tiles.

Chances are that if you lower your car onto the jackstand and a little lateral motion will pop the tile out.. as the original poster had this happened, and I have also heard of the exact same failure from other members.

It sounds like you have actual experience with this, are you saying 100% solid epoxy apply over VCT will fix this issue.. but I am skeptical the epoxy on top will do enough to stop tiles from shifting.

jxxxoxxxe... Yes it works great

Poor Owner... Think of it this way. The 100 percent solids epoxy will actually strengthen and join together these tiles in a manner of speaking. (W/a decent 8-15 mil coating) The conpresive strength of these epoxys can go well over 10000 psi and the tensile strength well over 6000. So in effect it is stronger than the concrete or tile itself. Please note that the tiles should be installed properly initially as any coating is subject to whats under it. I have not personally used lifts on this floor however i have done installations like this and have heard of no problems. YMMV. If it was my garage and i had a vct floor down i would try this for a few hundred bucks before ripping up all the tile and starting over.

 

[Paul V]

WOAH! This thread blew up!

Mathew I dont know If I am understanding you. There is clear coat epoxy that I can install over the tile?

 

[Mlynch]

WOAH! This thread blew up!

Mathew I dont know If I am understanding you. There is clear coat epoxy that I can install over the tile?

That is kind of correct... Thats like saying can i use a garage floor paint on my wall if i wanted to. I happen to have a deep understanding and background with vct and decorative concrete. Odd combination i know but for many years i worked in the janitorial industry as my father owns a large janitorial supply company in swfl. Every once in a while someone will take a stab at a product to replace the traditional methods of the sacrificial layer of wax. Wax/finish is some pretty weak stuff scratches, scuffs, and stain easily; however it is very easy to refurbish by stripping the floor and redoeing it. This kills the value in labor but is sstill very populare for commercial flooring because just about no matter how bad it gets you can strip it and redoe it like new. Some years ago they tried urethanes over vct similar to wood however it would still scratch and scuff up and it was expensive... it couldnt be stripped off so it had to be sand screened with water and re-urethaned. This got expensive and it was a PITA because you still had to redoe on a fairly regular basis.

Enter newer technology. Epoxy and Polyureas... epoxy has come a long ways in recent years and polyureas are the new kid on the block. Personally i like the polyurea because of its elongation vs abrasion resistance as well as complete uv stability (something that epoxy just doesnt have)... It just seems to make a better top coat even though it is a little trickier to install and find a good source for a DIY project. (SOME manufacterer's are still working bugs out because it is new)

VCT when stripped out is very very pourous and ideal to coat over no matter what the coating. So in essence you are using the vct as a decorative element and a substrate and the coating as the wear surface. These coatings last much longer and are much harder to make look bad... the good part is in 5 to 10 years (up to 15 supposedly with the polyureas this depends on your usage) if you have really let the floor have it just sand screen it with water... wipe with acetone and recoat and it will look like new.

I still cant give you any active advice on the jacking other than i cant imagine the tile popping up through a good coating of this stuff...

 

[Jason B]

So, hows it holding up?

 

[Armorpoxy]

Hi we strongly discourage using a coating on VCT. We have seen terrible results from peeing and tile curling. While you may get lucky and have no issues we have seen entire floors come up after being coated.

At the minimum test first if attempting this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jason B]

Hi we strongly discourage using a coating on VCT. We have seen terrible results from peeing and tile curling. While you may get lucky and have no issues we have seen entire floors come up after being coated.

At the minimum test first if attempting this.

Really? I've seen quite a few products out that say they are specifically for this and was wondering if they really work???

https://allgaragefloors.com/epoxy-over-vinyl-composite-tile/

https://allgaragefloors.com/vinyl-composite-garage-floor-tile/

Or I guess a good wax could last a long time if you don't use your garage much. I've had my VCT in for about 9 years now I think and still haven't waxed it. I know it comes pre-waxed from Armstrong and it still looks great, but have always been a matte finish of course, since I haven't waxed.

 

[Jason B]

Hi we strongly discourage using a coating on VCT. We have seen terrible results from peeing and tile curling. While you may get lucky and have no issues we have seen entire floors come up after being coated.

At the minimum test first if attempting this.

Thanks, decided to just do the wax and it looks great. Had the VCT down for 12 years and never waxed it. Garage doesn't get used hard.

Before/after

 

[ford33]

That twelve year old floor looks beautiful. Nice work keeping it in such great shape.

 

[Jason B]

That twelve year old floor looks beautiful. Nice work keeping it in such great shape.

Thanks, Haven't been back here in a bit and just saw your comment.