Vinyl Fencing

[rwil23]

Would like to tackle a short run of fencing myself..found a ton of stuff on it - however, seems to be a mess of conflicting/ambiguous info online..anyway, wanted to see what you guys here thought:

1. Pre-routed posts or posts that you have to screw brackets for the rails into? Does it matter?

2. Info online says stuff like 'pour quick-dry cement in dry and water after right into post hole' and others say to wet mix as usual prior to pouring in..either way better than the other?

2a. Info online says to pour in a bag of concrete - yet, info on the bag itself says as much as 6 bags for a 5" post in a 36" deep hole? Anyone have experience with how much is necessary per post?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but that's all I've got to get this going. Any help you guys could provide would be great, thanks!

 

[lynnbilodeau]

1. I hate vinyl fencing. Looks cheap. Attracts dust and seems to mildew. But, your fence; your choice.

2. As for cement, quickcrete makes a bag that is designed to pour into the hole dry, then add water. Instructions are on the bag. Way easier than mixing. I have even used regular bagged cement this way, and never had a problem. Perhaps I was just lucky. As they say, "your results may differ". If you want to be certain, buy the correct bag.

3. If the run is perfectly level, go with pre-routed posts. If it isn't perfectly level it will look pretty crappy. In that case, screw rails on posts. IMHO (which doesn't necessarily mean it is correct) fences with out of level rails just don't look right.

 

[PaulyC]

I have done the dry mix method and it works. I have also done fence posts with no concrete. The directions that say to use 6 bags are usually talking about having the concrete footing level with the soil surface. As far as the posts, i feel that the screw on brackets are easier to work with but it all depends on your skill level.

 

[Joe Reed]

6 bags? For a single fence post? Really? I didn't use that much years ago for the boys basketball goal....and it was still solid as a rock when I cut it off just below ground level years later...

I've always just mixed the concrete in the hole...add some water, then some concrete, then some more water, then some more concrete until full - tamping it with a shovel as I go. Never had a loose post....

 

[manwithtools]

Depending on soil conditions and where you live (would be nice if it was in your user info) there is no need to add water to the dry mix. The surrounding soil will contribute all the moisture to set the concrete harder than a rock in two days.

Put 1/4 bag in the bottom of the hole and then pour the remainder - up to two bags total - in the hole using a 1x or 2x to tamp it in firm while holding the post level - move on to the next post. Much easier than trying to brace each post that is set in wet concrete while it sets.

36" deep hole with a 5" post and 6 bags, hole must be 16" - 18" in diameter. That's just silly for a vinyl fence. I'd use a 8" - 10" hole and whatever pre-mix fills the hole and call it a day. you can do the math to determine how much is required per hole based on hole diameter, depth and post size.

 

[crf731]

I've never done a vinyl fence before, but have built plenty of wood and chainlink fences. I always just dump the concrete in dry.

Fill the hole about half full of concrete, put some water in and tamp it down. Fill the hole up the rest of the way, add a bit more water and tamp it down.

I usually leave the concrete down about 3-4" from the top of the hole too and top it off with dirt once the concrete has set up so grass will grow there again.

 

[burnedonice]

I run a large fence company, and we install vinyl fences weekly. There's a thousand different ways to get to the same end result, but its also easy to mess up a vinyl fence.

1) If your ground is level, go with routed posts! they can easily accommodate up to a 15* slope, and up to 30 if you cut your pickets at an angle. Snap together fences are literally a snap to install.

If its a solid fence (as in, no air gaps, privacy) i would stay away from dumping dry concrete mix in the hole. There is too much wind resistance with a privacy fence for it to slowly set up. Mix your concrete in a wheelbarrow and do it right.

For a 5" sq post, you will need a 10" hole, 27" deep (depending on where your frost line is). That will be approx 160 lbs of concrete a hole, 2 80 lb bags. You should fill the hole 2-3" shallow, to allow for dirt and allow grass to grow around the post which is a much cleaner install.

PM me if you need any more questions answered, fences are my specialty.

 

[nadogail]

I have used the dry mix concrete for fence posts. It was so easy, I felt like I was cheating.

Vinyl fences have become popular in my neighborhood, except with the termites (I don't think they like them).

 

[fourjeepin]

My house came with some white vinyl fencing and a mailbox. I pressure washed the fence once, it looked like **** again a few months later. I can't wait to be rid of the last 3 sections of that fence

 

[bdamico]

mixing the cement is better than not mixing it; those unmixed clumps are not as strong. One 50lb bag a hole - edit - see you are looking at bigger posts so more concrete

 

[tmcahren]

I have had vinyl fencing at my previous house and if it never is exposed to hard rain (runs under a big tree) or is always in the shade it will get mildew. Always had to wash it off. Never had any luck with any mildew resistance sprays. I was going to research it more but we ended up moving.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[garrett1812]

I have also heard about putting the dry mix into the hole with the post. Very appealing to save the work of mixing the concrete. However, if you put the post into a hole filled with wet concrete, you get concrete inside and outside of the post. If you use the dry method, I do not think you could put the post into a hole filled with the dry, you would have to set the post first them pour around. So no concrete inside of the post, unless you pour it in from the top or the routed pocket, but it wont be near as compacted as the concrete around it.

 

[csp]

2a. Info online says to pour in a bag of concrete - yet, info on the bag itself says as much as 6 bags for a 5" post in a 36" deep hole? Anyone have experience with how much is necessary per post?

What's the diameter of the hole you're digging? The depth is only part of the equation.

Not sure what the source of "info online" is, but I'd have to guess that when it says to pour in a bag of concrete it was either just a generalization or an install that's a combination of a little bit of concrete followed by native soil or gravel or a combination. No way to tell without knowing exactly what you read.

 

[rwil23]

What's the diameter of the hole you're digging? The depth is only part of the equation.



Not sure what the source of "info online" is, but I'd have to guess that when it says to pour in a bag of concrete it was either just a generalization or an install that's a combination of a little bit of concrete followed by native soil or gravel or a combination. No way to tell without knowing exactly what you read.

Believe it or not, was trying to limit the length of my first post - didn't plan on writing an essay ha.

Still planning, so posts will either be 4" or 5".

Also, I hear you as I didn't do a good job conveying exactly what I had read - it was a mix of posts on other similar forums, blogs, articles, etc. it's just that I never read online to use 6 bags per post, yet that's what it reads on the concrete bag. Thought it might be been overkill, wasn't sure.

Thanks to everyone for the info - will sit down and read/post back when I have a bit more time. It's much appreciated!!

 

[csp]

The concrete bag info was just giving the facts of you how much concrete it takes to fill a hole that's ** deep, ** in diameter with ** diameter post in it so you know how many to buy. Note that up to six bags is going to be a fairly large diameter hole (or deep) that probably isn't going to be the same diameter as yours and probably larger than the holes you read about online. Bigger holes need more concrete than smaller holes.

Comparing apples with oranges is bound to give conflicting information.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I run a large fence company, ...

1) If your ground is level, go with routed posts!

Concur

If its a solid fence (as in, no air gaps, privacy) i would stay away from dumping dry concrete mix in the hole. ... Mix your concrete in a wheelbarrow and do it right.

Concur. Mix regular Quickrete a little stiff. As long as it is not a windy day, it should hold the post with no other support, assuming no one bumps into them for at least 4 hours !

Make sure you use aluminum reinforcing tubes for corners and BOTH SIDES of gate posts. Most companies only do the hinge side, but it is much more solid if you do both.

 

[48RON54]

I mixed the concrete prior to putting it in the hole. It was kind of a PITA to get it inside the post and made quite a mess. thankfully it was easy to clean off.

I used the pre-routed posts as I liked the look better. They can be a bear to snap in if you are off a bit on your measurements. I also had to trim a slat or 2 on each section because we were slightly off on our measurements. Thanfully they cut easily enough. I would suggest a circular saw w/metal cutting blade for that if you run into the same issue. We tried a regular wood blade with large teeth and it destroyed the first slat lol.

I think I was only able to get 24" to 30" down on each hole due to the ground we were working with. If memory serves me, we used 1 1/2 to 2 bags per hole. I don't know that you need the fast setting stuff. I got regular quicrete and even that stuff set up so fast that we were struggling with getting everything together before the posts became immovable. Even with the reduced depth on the holes, that fence is going nowhere. Its solid.

I would suggest getting your horizontal and vertical slats in place before the concrete fully sets up and the check for plum/level and adjust accordingly again. once that concrete fully sets up, those posts are going to have very little give to them.

 

[garrett1812]

Concur


Concur. Mix regular Quickrete a little stiff. As long as it is not a windy day, it should hold the post with no other support, assuming no one bumps into them for at least 4 hours !

Make sure you use aluminum reinforcing tubes for corners and BOTH SIDES of gate posts. Most companies only do the hinge side, but it is much more solid if you do both.

I live in a neighborhood, where my back yard sits along a road, across from which is an open field. It gets pretty windy there. Would it be a good idea to put aluminum reinforcement on the entire back wall? I have seen some are only about 48" tall, other the full post length (for a 6' fence). Is the short one enough?

 

[rwil23]

Concur





Concur. Mix regular Quickrete a little stiff. As long as it is not a windy day, it should hold the post with no other support, assuming no one bumps into them for at least 4 hours !



Make sure you use aluminum reinforcing tubes for corners and BOTH SIDES of gate posts. Most companies only do the hinge side, but it is much more solid if you do both.

Everyone - thanks for all input.

To clarify, definitely going with full slats for closed privacy fence. It's only a short, straight run of about 24' - from the side of my house to an already installed vinyl fence that runs the length of my property.

@theoldwizard, that was my next question - a lot of what I've read suggests 4x4's inside the vinyl posts for strength - it's my assumption that you cannot do this when using pre-routed posts (common sense says they'll be in the way?)? And that's where I'll need to sub in the aluminum tubes at the locations you've suggested?

I technically won't have to do any corner posts - it would be an [end post - gate post- gate post - line post - end post]. So, only aluminum in the two gate posts or do the end posts, also? The aluminum supports seem expensive - is what it is, though, if necessary.

 

[Steevo]

I have white vinyl fencing around the back yard. It was installed in 2008. The installers used a 10" drill on a bobcat to make the post holes. They followed that with 5" pre-routed posts set in dry concrete mix, trued and leveled and then watered to wet the mix.
They left them for a week to set up before returning to install the rails and uprights between posts. About day two after they set the posts, I re-watered them to make sure the mix didn't dry out/set too quickly, as it was warm (mid-May). The rail installation was quick and easy with the routed posts, as they simply cut the rails to a predetermined length (post gap plus x-inches), and slipped them in place.

Only the gate posts were reinforced with internal "C" channel that was set in the concrete along with the posts, and then hinges were screwed through the posts into the channels.

The fencing has been solid and stable, the gates have required only one re-adjustment to stay perfectly aligned and latch smoothly. The fencing still looks white and stays clean, other than any place where bare dirt gets splattered on them in rainstorms (only one small section now).
We get some pretty good winds here at times, with gusts to 40mph plus, and the panels/rails bow a little but the posts stay stable.

I am very satisfied with the vinyl fence compared to wood dog-ear fences I have had at previous homes. They were maintenance nightmares and required replacement every ten or 12 years.
It isn't damp enough here for us to have any experience with mildew/algae, etc. on fencing, so can't comment on that.
If I were going to do more, I'd do it myself with pre-routed posts.