vinyl siding problem

[mackrmnn]

I agree with the "death ray" theory!!! Have you pissed off any Techno Nerds lately?

It's a chemical laser but in solid, not gaseous, form. Put simply, in deference to you, Kent, it's like lasing a stick of dynamite. As soon as we apply a field, we couple to a state that is radiatively coupled to the ground state. I figure we can extract at least ten to the twenty-first photons per cubic centimeter which will give one kilojoule per cubic centimeter at 600 nanometers, or, one megajoule per liter.

 

[east_tn_emc]

Has there been any ice or very cold spells over the last few months? I have seen solid sheets if ICE reflect the sunlight to a near blinding level of intensity. I wonder if there was a layer of ICE on your neighbors house or on the ground (doesnt have to be extremely thick either) and then the sunlight came out and hit it causing an intense glare to reflect on the side of your hours.

I agree with others that this HAS to be a reflective-glare heating situation. If there were local heating (like a grill, or a fire near the side of the house, or a hot engine running with the exhaust pointing to the siding) then the line of affected pieces of siding would not be so nearly a straight line as it crosses pieces of siding.

 

[mjeff87]

Very interesting article I just found:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/window-reflections-can-melt-vinyl-siding

I also called the original siding contractor and am awaiting a call back from their residential department.

One of the comments in the section below the article mentions the "zap distance" to be around 35 feet, and a few comments mention the problem being more prevalent in the winter months with low sun angle and cold vinyl surface temps.......my neighbor's house is right around 35 feet from mine

Jeff

Mack.....LOLZ at teh death ray!

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Very interesting article I just found:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/window-reflections-can-melt-vinyl-siding

Good find!
That covered the bases pretty well- and as I stated in my previous post, it's a well documented problem by the question that was asked.
I like that they included excerpts from some manufacturers warranties about their exclusions (window reflections).

 

[z28dad]

I learn something new every day. Good thread. I wish you the best in getting the problem solved. I believe I would replace the siding and maybe plant a shrub.

 

[Kevin54]

Very interesting article I just found:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/window-reflections-can-melt-vinyl-siding

I also called the original siding contractor and am awaiting a call back from their residential department.

One of the comments in the section below the article mentions the "zap distance" to be around 35 feet, and a few comments mention the problem being more prevalent in the winter months with low sun angle and cold vinyl surface temps.......my neighbor's house is right around 35 feet from mine

Jeff

Mack.....LOLZ at teh death ray!

After reading through the complete article it looks like you found the problem, now is just coming up with a solution. A small section of Privacy Fence maybe? The bad thing is, you will have to find what time of year it does it. Whether it be Fall, Winter or whenever.

I never heard of such a thing before. I wonder how many people have this problem and just don't realize it?

 

[mjeff87]

gonna work with my neighbor on a solution.....he's a good guy and it certainly isn't his fault that his window is nuking my house. It's possible that our windows have the low-e coating on the outside glass (since we're in the "south" and would want to repel radiant energy). I would be willing to pay to have that one window switched to an inside-coated version if it would solve the problem.

Still waiting on a return call from the siding contractor, but after reading up on the internets about this phenomenon this morning I'm pretty sure they aren't in a rush to contact me. Seems the siding guys blame the window guys, and visa-versa.

 

[chevy.stroker]

I recommend a few weekends of drinking beer with the neighbor. Stack the empties in an appropriate design to cover said blemish. Problem solved.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

gonna work with my neighbor on a solution.....he's a good guy and it certainly isn't his fault that his window is nuking my house. It's possible that our windows have the low-e coating on the outside glass (since we're in the "south" and would want to repel radiant energy). I would be willing to pay to have that one window switched to an inside-coated version if it would solve the problem.

Still waiting on a return call from the siding contractor, but after reading up on the internets about this phenomenon this morning I'm pretty sure they aren't in a rush to contact me. Seems the siding guys blame the window guys, and visa-versa.

Maybe look into something like this:
http://www.qualitywindowscreen.com/solar-screen.html

It's performs the same way as low-E but, it probably has enough 'texture' to break-up the lineal rays of light.
Of course with a vinyl sided house y'all probably have either aluminum or vinyl single hung window(?) Which usually means the window only has a half screen (and the problem pane is the upper fixed), but that could still be worked around. Worst case- it's a fixed window.

 

[SixStringMadness]

Just heard Rush Limbaugh say that there are reports of energy efficient windows causing other stories like this. (not to siding, but automobiles)

The reflection of the window creates this heat as this appears to be.

Hope you got this figured out, and worked something out with your neighbor....

 

[StevePgh]

Just heard Rush Limbaugh say that there are reports of energy efficient windows causing other stories like this. (not to siding, but automobiles)

I just pulled this article linked off of Drudge, remembered this thread, and looks like SixString did the same thing. This woman's neighbor's energy efficient windows are allegedly causing the mirrors on her Prius to melt. Interesting that she used a thermometer to measure the amount of heat. You can do something similar with some $10ish aquarium thermometers with a probe that records high and low temps. Good luck!

 

[mjeff87]

here's a couple pics of the setup I'm dealing with....first one is the neighbor's window on his second floor (thank gawd it's the only window on that side of his house or I think I'd have bigger problems). It faces southwest and catches the afternoon/early evening sun. Second shot is our two houses and the distance between them. My house (R) is in full shade on that back corner where the damage is occurring.

 

[pattenp]

Solution to your problem is ;

 

[SixStringMadness]

here's a couple pics of the setup I'm dealing with....first one is the neighbor's window on his second floor (thank gawd it's the only window on that side of his house or I think I'd have bigger problems). It faces southwest and catches the afternoon/early evening sun. Second shot is our two houses and the distance between them. My house (R) is in full shade on that back corner where the damage is occurring.

So have you ever seen the sunlight beaming of the neighbors window to the damage vinyl spot on your house. If so, a good IR thermometer could get you an accurate temp reading of the affected vinyl during the reflective conditions.

 

[SixStringMadness]

Isn't it great to build a big nice house, and have a lazy *** cable guy run cable 30' down the outside wall, and punch a hole in your insulated wall. What a jack ***!!!

 

[mjeff87]

LOL, I knew someone was gonna pick up on that...my neighbor had that done to him when he got his satellite dish installed .



The problem is occurring during the day while I am at work (and the last couple weekends I've been home have been overcast/rainy) so I actually haven't seen the offending death ray hitting my house. I'm hoping the weather this coming Sunday will be cooperative and I can shoot temps with my IR gun. Supposed to start raining here late tomorrow night thru Saturday.

 

[mjeff87]

Solution to your problem is ;

View media item 15945

????

 

[pattenp]

oops... picture was marked as private.

 

[jhelrey]

I've seen vinyl melt but that was due to a bunch of college guys and a fire way too big and close to the house. Bummer it is a rental. Everything was melted. They decided the best way to get rid of a hot tub was to burn it.

 

[Pete D.]

Someone I know used a gas power washer to clean there deck and they warped there siding from the heat from the exhaust.

 

[Crzydmnd72]

If the reflected heat is enough to melt siding, what chance does a tree or plant have there?

 

[D.J.]

NUTTSGT "The only time I have seen siding melted like that is an exposure to radiant heat from a house fire."
I have seen it with radiant heat from Houses across the street and from idiots putting the gas grills right up against the siding on houses and forgetting to turn off said grills. Cousin almost lost had his hunting lodge go up because of a client forgetting to turn off grill after supper this past season. I personally never seen it due to reflection , not saying it couldn't happen, but I am skeptical. Also in my area we have a thing called overhang on our gable ends of our structures that keep rain and snow sleet freezing rain, etc from running down the outside walls behind the siding.

 

[WVBrady]

A characteristic of sealed or thermal pane windows is that they are under a vacuum. This draws the center of the glass inwards. This indeed does create a concave or parabolic reflector capable of substantially magnifying the reflected light. At a certain distance it can be extreme.

I am in the lawn maintenance business. I have been mowing between houses and experienced this heat first hand. I have seen a lot of damage to lawns from this as well.

This sounds like a good topic for a Mythbusters program! They have already tried and failed to set a ship on fire with a lighthouse setup.

 

[6768rogues]

I was in the siding business for 21 years in a former life. The damage does not look like it was caused by tight nailing or binding. It looks like heat damage. 158-degrees F will make vinyl siding look like that. I have seen it happen from parking a hot barbecue grill too close to the house and it can also happen if an adjacent window reflects concentrated sunlight on a spot. The way the damage starts out wide and narrows as it goes up leads me to believe the barbecue might have caused it. I saw it happen on a house when the owner put a can of hot ashes from his fireplace outside near the house.

A few new panels and it would be a 10 minute repair. You could pull a piece off, stop at a commercial siding supplier and ask them. Most experienced people can tell what it is by looking at it.
When I was in the business, I would fix stuff like that for free. It would take a few minutes and cost very little. The good will would get me more jobs and then I would make more money than I could ever hope to get from a small repair. I always left a few panels of siding on each job, generally nailed to the inside wall above the overhead door if the owner would allow it. It stored perfectly if hung from the nailing hem. Then when I had to fix something later, the material was already there.

 

[Cobra6]

From this link -
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/window-reflections-can-melt-vinyl-siding

Tell-tale warping. When vinyl siding is melted by sunlight reflecting off a window, the warped siding usually traces a diagonal path. This pattern follows the way the reflected sunlight moves across the wall as the sun travels across the sky.

If you look at the pictures on the link, it matches what you see here

 

[Cougar67]

NUTTSGT "...in my area we have a thing called overhang on our gable ends of our structures that keep rain and snow sleet freezing rain, etc from running down the outside walls behind the siding.

I live in the Richmond area (as does OP) and most houses here have gable over hang. I'm not sure what that builder is thinking because we get our share of bad weather.

The GreenBuildingAdvisor link is priceless and makes sense. GarageJournal has possibly found the cause of global warming. I'm now thinking of residing with HardieBoard!

 

[Andamo]

You've lived there for 3 years, so why didn't this happen in the first 2 years ?

 

[mjeff87]

I have no clue.....but I do have a theory. The weather between Thanksgiving and Christmas time down here was weird (and this was when the damage happened). There was a string of unusually clear and warm weather during the days but the temps fell off considerably once the sun went down and overnight. I suspect that during that time, the siding surface temps were cold in the morning as the sun came up, and mid-morning the sun was at the perfect angle in relation to my neighbor's window and refracted sunlight back onto my house. The intense heat from that coupled with the cold surface temp on the vinyl caused the damage. Kind of like "the perfect storm" when all the elemets were exactly in position, and maybe will never happen again (hopefully).

I've been watching that side of the house for the last couple of weeks, and the sun angle has changed....it's hardly getting any reflected light now.

 

[mjeff87]

Necro-posting to my own thread.....

'Tis the death-ray, siding melting time of year again, lol. I still haven't gotten around to getting a window covering installed on my (now new) neighbor's house window, but it's on the list for this spring. Like I said, it's only a problem for me for a very short window of time, from roughly the beginning of December until early January, when the sun is at the perfect angle in the southern sky. I was outside cutting grass yesterday and was able to get some good pics to show exactly what the problem is. My "temporary" solution (after replacing siding twice now in the last few years ) is a 4x8 piece of foil faced foamboard. It works perfectly, too.

You can see the death ray in my lawn (although it's just starting to get going right now, it's not hitting my house yet but will be in a couple more weeks), and the reflection of the sun on the top (uncovered) pane of the window. Just thought some pics would be interesting for anyone who's never seen/experienced this phenomenon before.

 

[Skooterj]

I say it is a good time to extend your brick up another 4 feet or so.

 

[Higgins]

the first response I got from the builder was the contact info for the siding contractor that did the house (and every other house in my part of the subdivision, built roughly all at the same time). I have a 2-year warranty on the siding (we're almost at 3 years, so the builder is trying to get out of any responsibility). I can probably fix it myself for a small amount (already bought the siding tool LOL), but that's not what I'm going after. I just want to know what caused it so it doesn't happen again after it is repaired.

I'm betting on the builder claiming reflected sunlight from my neighbor's window being the cause and trying to walk away from it, but that don't jive with me. Like I said, we've been here almost 3 years, and this just happened within the last month. I'm fairly particular with my lawn/landscape and house exterior and walk the perimiter at least 1X per month, so I notice when something changes. Even more in the summer 'cause I cut the grass at least once a week, sometimes twice when it's really growing.

Jeff

Are there any other homes that are experiencing the same issue as you ???

 

[mjeff87]

Most likely yes, if they have south facing windows. I did a little drivethrough back when I first started this thread (like 10 years ago LOL), but didn't notice any houses. Of course, I was just casually glancing, lest someone thought I was casing their property and called the cops.

Like I said, it's just pure fate that this is happening to my house. If my neighbor's house were a couple feet further away, or closer to mine, the beam of death wouldn't be hitting my house. As it is, it only "nips" the very bottom corner of my siding. It could be worse, the entire north side of my house could be warped.

I do have an anti-reflective screen lined up to buy and install on my neighbor's house. He's really cool, and fine with it. I just have to get around to ordering it. It was <$100 the last time I checked. He has an extension ladder we can use to install it, too.

 

[mike93lx]

That's a hell of a thread bump and a creative solution