Vise assistance needed (AKA I hate liars/equivocators)

[Blacknwhitepit]

Answered a CL ad for a Garage full of tools.

It was an unusual situation.

There were many tools I wanted to see, the seller showed me them, but would not give a price. He said "We are selling in sets, we need to get them together" I asked what a ballpark price would be... All he would say is that I would get a good deal, but he needed until Friday to "get the sets together". "That way if you buy a toolbox that has something in it that someone else needs from another set, then they won't be upset"... JEEEZZEEE ANSWER THE @#$##@ question. And WHY DID YOU LIST THIS #$@ if you don't want to sell it.

Mind you, this was in a garage/building that was the size of a football field.


Don't get me wrong, he had some quality stuff, but he was being evasive about every question. When I asked to buy all the tools, he went back to "well, we need to get them back in their sets, come back Friday"

Anyway, this guy goes back to laying on his lawn lounger in the garage (No kidding!).. I see he is hard at work getting the sets together.

The whole situation was weird, there were people just milling about (his friends) like they had no purpose in life.... Weird.

I did hear him say he inherited this garage (no one was working in it and it had been closed 2 years)

Anyway, he never would give me an answer about a price on anything. F@#* him.

Thanks for wasting an hour and a half of my life due to the drive time.

I was about to tell him what I thought of him, his deceptive answers and where he could stick all his SO tools.....



But, As I was leaving I saw this vise.

It was bolted up to a Steel I beam. I asked how much.. He said $50.00

I noticed it didn't work (The handle would turn about one whole turn, but the vice jaws would not turn at all.)

I said... Tell me about it.

He said they put it in there in that condition (Bolted it to an I beam) and it never has worked since it was bolted in.

Anyway, I figured it was seized up and offered $20.00 and he accepted. I decided to part ways without the words.

Why is honesty so hard for some people?


Here are the pics. It is still frozen... I used my Oxy/Acetylene torches. Quenched with PB... Beat the damm thing and it still is stuck.

Every thing that could turn on this Vise is frozen solid. Musta been left out for some time.

I am now soaking it in a 25% solution of Muriatic acid for 24 hours.... Lets see what happens.

Any advise would be helpful

Your PAL

-BWP

 

[Bustawrench]

Try soaking it in this for a day or two.................


http://www.kanolabs.com/

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

+1 on KROIL!.......I like PB but that KROIL can do some amazing things!

 

[ephotrod]

Cheap easy solution! Make a mixture of 50/50 ****** fluid and acetone and let it soak in there for about a day. Then with a couple bottle jacks and some i-beam make a press to that you can apply a constant force and slowly break it free.
Josh

 

[35mastr]

From the pics. The vise has alot of soot on it. You are using too much gas and not enough Oxygen. You cant heat properly that way. You need and oxidizing flame to heat it right. From the looks of it. You did not get it set up properly to get the heat too transfer.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

From the pics. The vise has alot of soot on it. You are using too much gas and not enough Oxygen. You cant heat properly that way. You need and oxidizing flame to heat it right. From the looks of it. You did not get it set up properly to get the heat too transfer.

HAHAA...

I knew someone would say that when I took the picture. I got the flame correct later....

Thanks.

-BWP

 

[ephotrod]

If you go on shop floor talk there was a gentlemen who was about in the same predicament as yourself and with time was able to free the frozen parts. If i remember correctly his username was oldguy from tx and he use preasure, solvents and time.
Josh

 

[caper]

If you go on shop floor talk there was a gentlemen who was about in the same predicament as yourself and with time was able to free the frozen parts. If i remember correctly his username was oldguy from tx and he use preasure, solvents and time.
Josh

I think you may be thinking of Cutter and his internet famous thread about freeing up a seized Wilton he found.It's an epic thread,definitely not dial up friendly.

 

[Rory Bellows]

Cutter's vise is an epic thread! He soaked that sucker in everything.

 

[volpster31]

just a spritz of wd-40 should do it

just kidding.........cool find & good luck

 

[theWORLDSaNAIL]

If you have access to an ultra sonic cleaner put the vise in with evapo-rust the action in the machine will force out the oxides and crud. Let it set in the machine about 2 days and then try and free it. If it doesn't free put back in and try 2 days later.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

I viewed the cutter thread but never found a solid answer.

Things I thought about (some I did)

Putting it on my 5t jack and putting it under my truck and pump up the jack (too heavy and awkward to stay)

A spreader (between the jaws). Only about 3 inches there, so I don't know how a bottle jack can help.

Beating it mercilessly... Someone already tried that and it was starting to crack.. I added about a 1/4 inch crack trying to knock the Bejeesus out of it.

Picking it up and dropping it.... Tried this several times from ranges of 3-5 feet. Just knocked chunks out of my concrete.

My HF 20T press (too wide to fit).

-BWP

 

[bondman35a]

Could use a low pro cylinder for a porta-power to try and spread the jaws.

 

[LoneGunman]

I think you are rushing it, instead of risking breaking it or you why not let whatever you soak it in do it's job? I can't say I have had to break free a frozen vise but I have had to break free numerous old pieces of equipment, firearm actions from the late 1800s ETC. If they won't come apart easily I soak them in a kero and ****** fluid mixture and forget about them for awhile. Put that thing in a 5 gallon bucket with a mixture of kero and ****** fluid and let it sit at least a week, it will come loose eventually.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

I think you are rushing it, instead of risking breaking it or you why not let whatever you soak it in do it's job? I can't say I have had to break free a frozen vise but I have had to break free numerous old pieces of equipment, firearm actions from the late 1800s ETC. If they won't come apart easily I soak them in a kero and ****** fluid mixture and forget about them for awhile. Put that thing in a 5 gallon bucket with a mixture of kero and ****** fluid and let it sit at least a week, it will come loose eventually.

LOL

I was so pissed off... I went right to Muriatic..... You probably have something there....

Thanks,

-BWP

 

[chad s]

The guy sounds like a nut job. Some people are too stupid to be able to conduct business.

 

[bmwpower]

From the looks of it, it's rusted at the screw. Did you apply heat right to the screw area?

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

From the looks of it, it's rusted at the screw. Did you apply heat right to the screw area?

 

[bmwpower]

That's another vise. I don't believe you.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

That's another vise. I don't believe you.

-BWP

 

[senlow]

I think you are rushing it, instead of risking breaking it or you why not let whatever you soak it in do it's job? I can't say I have had to break free a frozen vise but I have had to break free numerous old pieces of equipment, firearm actions from the late 1800s ETC. If they won't come apart easily I soak them in a kero and ****** fluid mixture and forget about them for awhile. Put that thing in a 5 gallon bucket with a mixture of kero and ****** fluid and let it sit at least a week, it will come loose eventually.

I've used that technique on numerous projects. It even works on siezed valve guides in aluminim heads.

 

[bmwpower]

-BWP

haha...just pulling your chain there BWP.
subscribed to see what happens with the acid.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

haha...just pulling your chain there BWP.
subscribed to see what happens with the acid.

I was wondering for a second..... I am having a helluva day... I almost bit!!!!

 

[Uncle Buck]

I think you are rushing it, instead of risking breaking it or you why not let whatever you soak it in do it's job? I can't say I have had to break free a frozen vise but I have had to break free numerous old pieces of equipment, firearm actions from the late 1800s ETC. If they won't come apart easily I soak them in a kero and ****** fluid mixture and forget about them for awhile. Put that thing in a 5 gallon bucket with a mixture of kero and ****** fluid and let it sit at least a week, it will come loose eventually.

Best answer, you have already tried heat.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

Best answer, you have already tried heat.

Since this is all solid and forged, I figured I would not have to be so 'gentle'.... And I was pissed at the time......Hence the muriatic acid.... He is probably right.... but we'll see what the acid does to it. The worst that would happen is that I would pickle it.....

Thanks

-BWP

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

I have TWO of these Rock Island units; I like them very much and would not hesitate to pick up another. )

Adam

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

JEEEZZEEE ANSWER THE @#$##@ question. And WHY DID YOU LIST THIS #$@ if you don't want to sell it.

Mind you, this was in a garage/building that was the size of a football field.


Don't get me wrong, he had some quality stuff, but he was being evasive about every question. When I asked to buy all the tools, he went back to "well, we need to get them back in their sets, come back Friday"

Anyway, this guy goes back to laying on his lawn lounger in the garage (No kidding!).. I see he is hard at work getting the sets together.

The whole situation was weird, there were people just milling about (his friends) like they had no purpose in life.... Weird.

I did hear him say he inherited this garage (no one was working in it and it had been closed 2 years)

Anyway, he never would give me an answer about a price on anything. F@#* him.

I've dealt with some kooks...nobody quite like that, but I can easily imagine. I remember going to look at some tools and toolboxes years ago. It was an older guy, and he had placed an ad in the newspaper. I liked some of the stuff he had, but he said he hadn't priced it yet. I called him back about a week later, and he started bitching me out, telling me he hadn't priced it yet. I got off the phone thinking, f/k you, you crazy old *******!

I think you are rushing it, instead of risking breaking it or you why not let whatever you soak it in do it's job?

Makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes the best thing to do is just let the solvent do it's magic and wait.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

I've dealt with some kooks...nobody quite like that, but I can easily imagine. I remember going to look at some tools and toolboxes years ago. It was an older guy, and he had placed an ad in the newspaper. I liked some of the stuff he had, but he said he hadn't priced it yet. I called him back about a week later, and he started bitching me out, telling me he hadn't priced it yet. I got off the phone thinking, f/k you, you crazy old *******!




Makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes the best thing to do is just let the solvent do it's magic and wait.

There was something nutty about this old guy.... he was an old black guy about 65+.... What was really strange was that a plump, middle aged white guy was there showing me around... He didn't even know his way around the shop. When I asked him for a price, he would have to yell back for the old man to give him a price (which he would just talk in circles).

It was very surreal.

An older white couple were sitting on lawn chairs in the shop, next to the open garage door and where the old man was sprawled out on the lawn chair 'lounger'. A younger white man (24-28) was there and was just following us around...... very weird.... I still don't know what to make of it.

They all acted like they knew each other, but not well. They were not there to buy anything.


I know this may sound like a dream, but it was real.... I think

At least I have the vise to prove it!

-BWP

 

[bmwpower]

For kicks, you should bring it back to the guy if you can't get it working and see if he'll give you your money back.

 

[billymade]

"I want a refund!, its defective"; LOL!

 

[KenS]

I viewed the cutter thread but never found a solid answer

This made me chuckle, because in Cutter's case his Wilton vice did give a "solid answer"... it took over a year but he finally got it unfrozen. But I'll get back to that in just a moment.

Blacknwhitepit, unlike Cutter's Wilton the jaws of your vice are open. In one of the Cutter threads a poster had a vice just like yours. In his case he put the vice in a 20-ton hydraulic press and used the press to slowly squeeze the jaws closed. This broke them free.

Cutter had a different problem since his Wilton was rusted frozen with the jaws closed.

Part of the trouble with the Cutter Wilton Vice threads is that they're spread over several different forums. The original 2004 thread was subsequently removed, but later resurrected by Cutter on the Shop Floor Talk forum and on his own site.

I remember when I first read that "epic" [caper--excellent choice of word] thread quite some time ago and it was extremely frustrating when, after Cutter tried about everything you can imagine, the thread abruptly ended.

After Blacknwhitepit started this thread, I did a little more searching and finally learned "the rest of the story." First I found this interesting note from Cutter himself:

So we left the old vise soaking in its diesel bath, sitting in my back yard until the beginning of another thread, "New Shop Building". I finally had to move it to make way for the concrete crew in August of last year so I hoisted it out of the can & moved it to my back porch where it sat around in the way for 2 or 3 months. Sometime last November (maybe?) I lugged the Zep can into the shop and stuck the vise back in it and that's where it still is today, in the Frogpond.!

After more time passed, Cutter resumed his mission to open the vice. You can save some time by beginning here:

Cutter's Wilton Vice Resurrected...

HTH and let us know how it goes.

 

[ears]

Electrolysis will free it up if the atf doesn't work.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

Part II.


Here it is in the Trash bin after a 24 hour bath with a 25% solution of Muriatic Acid.

Now time for neutralizing it (used another Trash bin)

Fresh out of the neutralizer....

Beating on it doesn't help.... Lets see if I can use my press... Last night I didn't think it would work...... Awesome!!!.... it fits!!! (just barely!)

Getting everything ready. I lost my pins in the move.... These Prybars will have to work...

Putting it in place...

Here Goes!!!





It moved!!!

Great, now I have the jaws shut!!!

What now???? I can't turn it the other way in the Press..... lets put the screw/turning mechanism back on and try to loosen it.


Gotta replace the broken screw that holds the screw mechanism in place.... I have a bolt but it won't turn with the head on it..

I found a bolt with the same thread, put it in my other vise and cut the head off with a hacksaw... Then used the hacksaw to cut a slot for a screwdriver.

Putting it back together.

The jaws open up!, but it takes all my strength to move it.




Brushing off excess rust and soaking it with PB.

As stated earlier, The jaws open up, but I must use a combo wrench as a cheater....

I'm smoked... It is 90 degrees out and I am soaking wet. I got it working... I can take it apart and wire brush off the other stuff later.


Now my final issue is getting the handle to slide, getting the base locking mechanism unfrozen and replacing the locking bar (any Ideas?)

Then perhaps I will restore this thing and show photos like ELROY.


Thanks for the advice....


-BWP

 

[sk farmer]

bwp, good job. how did you ever complete a job with a harbor freight press, a black and decker drill, two old garbage cans and an old craftsman screwdriver? most gjers would not have even let you start a project without the proper truck tools. you must have special talents.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

bwp, good job. how did you ever complete a job with a harbor freight press, a black and decker drill, two old garbage cans and an old craftsman screwdriver? most gjers would not have even let you start a project without the proper truck tools. you must have special talents.

LOL

I did use One truck tool... Can you spot it?

-BWP

 

[old salvage]

Great idea, making the set screw from a bolt !

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

That Snap-on prybar, did the trick.

Great job on the vise, now take it apart and let that other part soak, instead of standing out there sweating, while wire wheeling off the rust.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Remove the screw and get another set of hands to hold the whole assembly while you use your press to push the handle back into usable shape. I did exactly that with an old vise handle on one of mine.

 

[swduncan]

Somewhere in a bar...

"Nah, I ain't sold the tools yet...I gotta get them arranged into sets before I can price 'em. But, you remember that vice that smitty welded shut to fool the new guy? I sold it for twenny bucks!"

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

Remove the screw and get another set of hands to hold the whole assembly while you use your press to push the handle back into usable shape. I did exactly that with an old vise handle on one of mine.

Yeah, I just came up with a plan to get that thing unfrozen.... It should work... I will post pics tomorrow in PART III (Stay tuned!!!)

I need some suggestions on the base swivel lock. I have bent some bars trying to get that thing to turn.


-BWP