Vise Grip Philosophy

[Flivver250]

I started seriously twisting a wrench 41 years ago. Every mechanic I knew had multiple sizes and types of vise grips in their box. They were as common as shop rags. All were made in the US. They were cheap and guaranteed, but you rarely warranted them because the torch or welder punished them first and they were darn hard to break. When you nuked a set, you immediately got more without thinking. So, why did they move to China? Question: Who wouldn't have paid a buck or two more as prices went up? Who would have stopped using them? I think every mechanic would still buy American made vise grips. I still have most of mine and they are 40 years old. I don't want the Chinese versions. I won't insult the good people of Dewitt, Nebraska by buying them. Half a town put out of work in favor of Asia. See below.

http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/machines_12.html

 

[Jeremy77]

Yep, it's a shame about Dewitt. I wrote a post here back around the 4th of July when Lowes was selling the 10" VG'S for $5. Tried telling everyone what a ****** thing Newell RubberMaid/Irwin did. Look up Knipix locking pliers on the HD website. They are a bit pricey ($30-$40 range) but made in Germany. Grip-On locking pliers are also well made. COO is Spain. That's who Proto has manufacture theirs.

 

[Negen]

Corporate taxes and the EPA have more to do with industries leaving than cost of manufacturing. High US wages will amount to a product being a few dollars more. Insurance , corporate taxes and EPA regulations will turn a 5$ msrp into a 60$ msrp.

 

[gungatim]

it took 330 people to make vice grips? wow...with that kind of labor overhead, no wonder they moved production. Wonder what kind of regulations were in place involving the plating process in Neb. vs. Asia? I would pay a buck or 2 more for US made. I doubt that the price difference is only a buck or 2 though...

 

[Spn1025]

Off topic slightly, but what's a little baffling to me is I've been using vise grips for 30 years and I never noticed the "cutter" part of them. Not all models have the cutter obviously, but I'll have to check my tool box when I get home.

Either way, vise grips would probably be the last tool i'd grab out of the tool box if I needed to cut something... that's what dykes are for (diagonal pliers).

 

[Zartan]

Yea, I've been bummed since hearing that. I need a few more, but not yet. I remember early in my MFG career having dozens upon dozens of those in the weld shop. We would cut the deep jaw ones up and make them 2 feet long in some places. Great tools.

 

[fatfillup]

Not only did the production go overseas,,,,,,,,,,,but quality flew the coup too.

I sell all the Petersen era vise grips I find. They don't hang around long. I know another reseller that has great success with them on ebay. I also know they can go for big money at auctions. They will often fetch what you can buy new for but no mechanic that has had the old wants the new.

And because of the quality difference between old and new, most folks in the know and use them often would gladly pay double.

As far as the off shoring of jobs, lots of reasons,,,,,,,some regulatory, some profit motivated and probably others. We need to wake up as a country and get manufacturing jobs back or we will continue a downward spiral.

 

[valentine]

I always felt that the cutters on Vise Grips were more Crusher than Cutter but I will admit to having used them to cut on very rare occasions. Also, I would rather see the tools I buy coming from the USA but the average tool consumer is more concerned with the bottom line than a tools Country of Origin. American workers don't want to work for minimum wage and they need benefits too. How is an American manufacturer supposed to offset the additional expense of paying higher wages and benefits to its workers? They raise the price of their products, that's how. Then, average consumer sees those prices going up and won't buy the USA product when he can get imported for cheaper. Soon the USA manufacturer is in trouble and either has to close their doors or cut costs by manufacturing offshore where it's cheaper. Then everyone starts bitchin' about how they don't make 'em like they used to and why can't stuff be made in the USA anymore. I don't think I'll see it change in my lifetime but I'm getting old and jaded and giving up hope that my opinion counts for much anymore. I, for one, would gladly sacrifice some of what I have to strengthen USA manufacturing and bring industry back to our own shores.

-Valentine

 

[Fordman7795]

Here are a few photos of the Vise Grip factory over the years (beginning with a shot of William Petersen's blacksmith shop where where the first tools were assembled in the 1920s).

Amazing pictures.

 

[trackwelder]

I always felt that the cutters on Vise Grips were more Crusher than Cutter but I will admit to having used them to cut on very rare occasions. Also, I would rather see the tools I buy coming from the USA but the average tool consumer is more concerned with the bottom line than a tools Country of Origin. American workers don't want to work for minimum wage and they need benefits too. How is an American manufacturer supposed to offset the additional expense of paying higher wages and benefits to its workers? They raise the price of their products, that's how. Then, average consumer sees those prices going up and won't buy the USA product when he can get imported for cheaper. Soon the USA manufacturer is in trouble and either has to close their doors or cut costs by manufacturing offshore where it's cheaper. Then everyone starts bitchin' about how they don't make 'em like they used to and why can't stuff be made in the USA anymore. I don't think I'll see it change in my lifetime but I'm getting old and jaded and giving up hope that my opinion counts for much anymore. I, for one, would gladly sacrifice some of what I have to strengthen USA manufacturing and bring industry back to our own shores.

-Valentine

I believe most of the reasoning to move production overseas is to gain more profit. The bean counters figure they can cut costs by a huge percentage and sell the product at the same price as the U.S. Made item.

 

[dnschmidt]

The problem isn't the EPA, overpaid American workers or any of that other BS. It's pure corporate greed.

I took an interview at Honeywell here in Phoenix, The woman that interviewed me was the former Quality Director at Peterson Manufacturing a position she currently holds at Honeywell's Deer Valley location here in Phoenix. When Rubbermaid took over they immediately changed the quality specification for the steel that was used to make the Vise-Grips to a lower grade. You wonder why Irwin made in the USA Vise Grips **** just as badly as the made in China Irwin Vise Grips ****, it's because they changed the steel from higher quality (Peterson) to lower quality (Irwin). It didn't matter where it was made the reason the teeth strip off is because the quality of the steel isn't as good as it was under Peterson a company that actually gave a ****.

I sell TOPTUL's vise grips. They are made with the CrMo and CrV steel Peterson's use to be made from. They still work like Peterson's did and still do. The Taiwanese are smart enough to realize what it takes to make a good Vise Grip. Irwin obviously does too they simply don't chose to. Don't blame the EPA, the government, or Obama when pure corporate greed is the answer. Peterson Manufacturing made boatloads of money making things in Nebraska which was obviously why Rubbermaid bought them, but, that wasn't enough for the Wall Street types. Stop blaming American workers for the sins of holding companies that care only about their profits.

 

[u118224]

I always felt that the cutters on Vise Grips were more Crusher than Cutter but I will admit to having used them to cut on very rare occasions. Also, I would rather see the tools I buy coming from the USA but the average tool consumer is more concerned with the bottom line than a tools Country of Origin. American workers don't want to work for minimum wage and they need benefits too. How is an American manufacturer supposed to offset the additional expense of paying higher wages and benefits to its workers? They raise the price of their products, that's how. Then, average consumer sees those prices going up and won't buy the USA product when he can get imported for cheaper. Soon the USA manufacturer is in trouble and either has to close their doors or cut costs by manufacturing offshore where it's cheaper. Then everyone starts bitchin' about how they don't make 'em like they used to and why can't stuff be made in the USA anymore. I don't think I'll see it change in my lifetime but I'm getting old and jaded and giving up hope that my opinion counts for much anymore. I, for one, would gladly sacrifice some of what I have to strengthen USA manufacturing and bring industry back to our own shores.

-Valentine

Channelock is doing it among many others. I always buy US made hand tools because I want to support US manufacturing.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Thanks for posting those pictures. Like others, I always buy old US made Vise-Grips when I find them. A few stores here have some NOS items but primarily I find them at garage sales.

 

[Zartan]

Hope the shareholders go their 100 bucks

 

[hangfirew8]

Channelock is doing it among many others. I always buy US made hand tools because I want to support US manufacturing.

I hope Channelock comes out with a US made vise-grip competitor and eats their lunch.

In the mean time, since imports are the only choice, I've been buying Blackhawk locking pliers from Taiwan. The quality is great and I prefer the reversed unlocking lever.

 

[3baygarage]

Amazing pictures.

Agreed. Excellent posts Flivver & Copilot.

The new deal Vise Grips may look nice and do the same work but how can they be taken the same. Outsourcing something with a history like that is sad.

 

[gungatim]

Hope the shareholders go their 100 bucks

me too! without corporations watching out for our investments, we wouldn't have any retirement!

 

[rsanter]

Well you asked.....who wouldn't pay a few dollars more?
The average condiment in the US...that's who.
We are not the average consumer, we are the nutcases and enthusiasts. The average consumer is the guy that buys a pair that gets used twice a year or less. The average consumer is more about the lower price than the quality. Why do you think that HF is doing so well.

Bob

 

[Smokeshow69]

I love the old vise grips and have some of the newer crapsman garbage(irwin made). The difference is pretty obvious when you start working with them Any time I find us made peterson-dewitt vise grips I buy them. No matter how much rust or how worn they may be, I give them a bath in the evaporust and put them to work. It is amazing that 60 year old pliers work better than 5 year old pliers :0 I have also educated my brothers and dad on the evils of the new irwin pliers and they also keep an eye out for the old ones! Hope the bean counters notice when no none is buying their crappy pliers...

 

[Tucko]

I was just thinking this yesterday as I tried to force open my Irwin C Grips. The Peterson Grips release with one finger, smooth as butter. The Irwin grips are ****.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I raise a toast to all of those who have used bad words in front of women and children when they pinched their finger opening vise grips!

 

[fatfillup]

The problem isn't the EPA, overpaid American workers or any of that other BS. It's pure corporate greed.

Corporate greed, ie. pleasing the shareholders (note: if you have a 401K, you are a shareholder of stock most likely) is certainly a major factor. But please don't discount EPA and other onerous regulations. They certainly factor into corporate greed because their is a cost involved.

Now, I am not against clean water or air, but there is always a point of diminishing returns where costs far outweigh the benefits. And bureaucracies such as the EPA rarely take that into consideration. And if you really have a moral problem with environmental issues, you wouldn't buy much of what China produces.

We as a country are quite hypocritical when it comes to exploitation, whether it be environmental or human rights. We won't allow it here but gladly allow it outside our borders if it means we can buy cheap stuff.

I have no answers and am guilty also, just making observations.

 

[b7labelle]

Hope the shareholders go their 100 bucks

That's the problem, these are publicly traded corporations and companies must continue to show growth year over year or their investors bail.

 

[Farmall 1066]

I live about 15 miles from Dewitt NE, and knew a lot of the people that worked there. The collective pride they had in their company and the product would be the envy of any company on earth.
The Rubbermaid buy out put the writing on the wall. People saw it coming for 4-5 years. What was formerly a place where people put in 30-40 years, and generations of families worked, became a place full of temp help, corporate morons who had no clue, and didn't understand that it is damn near impossible to make people who pride themselves on quality, do poor work.
The assholes gave everyone who stayed till the end boxes of tools as a phoney-assed thank you, and shut the doors.
Got a shitload of "Petes" as they are known around here, and a few Chinese ones....no comparison. That "The Original" they stamp on the side today is a slap in the face to people around here.

 

[jrobb316]

I dumped the China grips a long time ago and have both Knipex and Snapon (Gripon) instead. I buy all the old Petersens I happen across which isn't too many. "The Original" is most definately a slap in the face to anyone that actually uses tools for a living. It would be awesome if channellock came out with a set!

 

[stihlntime]

I would certainly pay more for the quality USA product. But many won't. At the farm store I work at part time for something to do(retired),people bitched and bitched about not having enough USA tools so the owners responded and added a bunch of USA made tools and they just sit. People will not pay a couple bucks more for a Wilde set of pliers vs a set of china made slip joints. They will still tell us at the parts counter I can't get xxxx tool made in the USA but when you lead them over and show it to them they won't put their money where their mouth is.

 

[bczygan]

There is very little place in the world for precision made tools. Those of us who demand a quality tool and in a very, very small minority. The mass market requires a least cost item. This fits well with economic realities. A poorly designed and manufactured tool is more liable to break, or be unsatisfactory, creating demand for more tools. And as far as COO, we are in a world economy. The work goes to the most appropriate place.

We are in a place where the quality tools that used to be made here, are rapidly disappearing as scrap. And soon the remaining ones will be more valuable as collectors items than as users. Soon they will be unavailable at any reasonable cost. Enjoy them while you may.

Bill

 

[dnschmidt]

Then how does one explain the Germans? They make only the best stuff, totally refuse to make garbage, charge an arm and a leg for it and they thrive. They are the leading exporter in the world. If **** is all the public will buy explain Wera, Wiha, Stahlwille, Gedore, Hazet and Knipex to me. Knipex is growing by leaps and bounds in America because they make the best stuff. Channellock is doing well. I just saw their factory in Meadville, PA. The parking lot was full.

The Chinese made Milwaukee tools are still world class. Their Chinese made Vise-Grips are great. They charge a good amount for them yet they still sell. If **** is king why isn't Germany a third world country?

 

[bigdav160]

The psyche of the German people is still imprinted with the 20th century hell they lived through. (btw, at the expense of their politicians.)

 

[fatfillup]

Then how does one explain the Germans? They make only the best stuff, totally refuse to make garbage, charge an arm and a leg for it and they thrive. They are the leading exporter in the world. If **** is all the public will buy explain Wera, Wiha, Stahlwille, Gedore, Hazet and Knipex to me. Knipex is growing by leaps and bounds in America because they make the best stuff.

They charge a good amount for them yet they still sell. If **** is king why isn't Germany a third world country?

Now this makes one think.

I assume they target market the quality buyer and have not only quality products but innovative ones as well.

 

[1950mercury]

I probably have 30-40 Peterson vise grips and I hardly ever use them. It seems like 95% of the time there is a better tool for the job. That doesn't stop me from buying the originals if I find them. I just bought 2 at an estate sale last week for 3 bucks.
Only time I find myself using them is doing fab work.

 

[logical]

Unfortunately, it isn't just a buck or two and the average Joe homeowner is 90% of the customer base who probably buys them so he doesn't need a full set of what we'd call proper wrenches.

It's disheartening but I don't have any animosity for corporations in general and there seems to be an endless supply of NOS domestic made Vise Grips if you really are willing to pony up a little extra cash.

I won't buy Chinese hand tools generally, mainly because I think at least for now there are good alternatives at reasonable prices and there is just something about having something in your hands that has a little bit of this country's history inside. My main combo box was made in China (no, not HF) so I'm not in a position to get on too high a soap box.

 

[djb2]

I don't blame the consumer as much as I blame the distribution chain.

For a recent example, look at Lowes dropping the old-school tool brands in favor of the new Southwire brand. They didn't drop prices, or offer them alongside the other brands. They just looked at their cost difference between the name brands and what they could get custom-branded Chinese-made tools for, and decided that they could be getting more profit.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

A few years back; I stocked up on extra USA Vise Grips after hearing that production was being moved to China...

The thought of having any Rice Jips in my tool box pisses me off.. I can think of no good reason to let that happen.

 

[sonvolt]

I'm always looking for USA vise grips, all of em in my box are USA.

 

[ganymede]

A few years back; I stocked up on extra USA Vise Grips after hearing that production was being moved to China...

The thought of having any Rice Jips in my tool box pisses me off.. I can think of no good reason to let that happen.

I did the same thing to round out my collection. I needed the 7" nut buster type and a few others. Got one pair and they sucked. They were sloppier than normal (which is really sloppy ) and the jaws didn't line up when they closed. I passed them on and still havnt found an nos pair that doesn't ****.
The "rice jips" as you say are probably better.

 

[Badasssapper67]

The economy was great for years and people quit doing things themselves. Hell, they don't even make their own coffee. Most sports fans guys get their tools at Christmass from their wife and daughters and use their "vice grips" because they don't know what size to use or even if it's metric or standard.
Those are the people running corps today. No one can say for certain why somebody does something, but we would know why we would do it. The people at rubber maid don't know a sheet of steel from sheet of plywood. Try explaining to your wife why you have to get the expensive version of the tool you need. Now imagine a boardroom of people that can run a blackberry but not a skilsaw. Can you explain to them why HSS is important to use?
Im not saying it wasn't greed Im saying I don't know and no one knows except the people that were in that board room. I will say thing though, and this is important, we are going to end up like England unless we figure out where we went wrong. IF vice grips came back to the USA it wouldn't be a room of 330 employees it would be 100 robots and 20 software engineers.
What can we change to get Americans back to making the best products you can buy on Planet Earth? Hell if I know, but it has to work for everyone, the worker, the share holder, the purchaser, everyone.

 

[pumaman]

I took an interview at Honeywell here in Phoenix, .

Lol.

Hey thats too bad about your sock puppets getting banned.

 

[Farmall 1066]

The economy was great for years and people quit doing things themselves. Hell, they don't even make their own coffee. Most sports fans guys get their tools at Christmass from their wife and daughters and use their "vice grips" because they don't know what size to use or even if it's metric or standard.
Those are the people running corps today. No one can say for certain why somebody does something, but we would know why we would do it. The people at rubber maid don't know a sheet of steel from sheet of plywood. Try explaining to your wife why you have to get the expensive version of the tool you need. Now imagine a boardroom of people that can run a blackberry but not a skilsaw. Can you explain to them why HSS is important to use?
Im not saying it wasn't greed Im saying I don't know and no one knows except the people that were in that board room. I will say thing though, and this is important, we are going to end up like England unless we figure out where we went wrong. IF vice grips came back to the USA it wouldn't be a room of 330 employees it would be 100 robots and 20 software engineers.
What can we change to get Americans back to making the best products you can buy on Planet Earth? Hell if I know, but it has to work for everyone, the worker, the share holder, the purchaser, everyone.

Nailed it!