Vise Info Thread

[RTM]

Ok, somewhere today I swore I saw the next step after this one, posted by @CRSINMICH above

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachments/1892-newkirk-and-bills-out-of-business-jpg.2255890/

So in that link, Bills is the sole proprietor, 1892

Then in 1899, still sole proprietor , from

The Metal Worker

books.google.com

And this one has them in Allentown, under the leadership of J.E. Durham. Published in 1914, puts the move in 1909

History of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania

books.google.com

Now to figure out the Bills to Durham transition.

 

[RTM]

This publication has Durham owning Bonney in 1908

Who's who in Pennsylvania

books.google.com

 

[akasrick]

^ you've lost me there, sorry.
so.... 453459 WAS manufactured by Bonney, correct?

what was the verdict on the "Ritchie's Champion" ?

Looks like a glass house was built.
Correct That patent was manufactured by Bonney that style vise was also manufactured by Bonney without the improvement prior to the patent. Others?
I see CRSINMICH's post this thread # 4,133
It looks to be a fair amount of work to nail these down.
I would say that the later Champions were made in house both Phila. and Allentown at Bonney.
Who did the prototypes?
I guess there isn't a mechanism to add who ent up making the patent after it's granted, and that would be why we see all the "not known to be produced or whatever" on the searchable sites.

Such a small vise some say cheaply made. What could they realize, 1/2 a cent each per unit?


akasrick

 

[akasrick]

Now to figure out the Bills to Durham transition.

I don't think it was overly friendly, have read where he (Bills) handed over the keys grudgingly.
I figure if he sold to them he was expecting to be unemployed.
Unfriendly takeover, stockholders revolt?
I imagine the "Phila gang" weren't happy.


akasrick
Just adding a catalog page


akasrick

adding portable document file

akasrick

 

[four.cycle]

It looks to be a fair amount of work to nail these down.

It is. Requires a lot of late-night reading of obscure documents, far too many of which are written in 19th-century Victorian English.

why we see all the "not known to be produced or whatever" on the searchable sites.

"Not known to have been produced" is the default entry for that little box on the datamp.org site.
If no steward enters that information - the manufacturer of the object in question - then the "Not known" entry stays.
There have been bazillions of patents issued by the U.S. Patent Office, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every one of those widgets was actually produced.
MY task (the LIST) is simply documenting and archiving the names of the manufacturers, but in order to maintain the list as a credible source, I try to sort out (as best I can) exactly WHO was making WHAT widget.
When sending information to one of the stewards at datamp.org, I have to have proof in some form that manufacturer X actually produced widget Y.
Anything less makes the LIST (and datamp.org) not 100% credible.

I don't get into all the little nuances of stuff like handle grip designs on pliers, or which model vise had a swivel base - that's beyond the scope of what I'm working on. I leave that stuff to you guys, who are obviously far more conversant on such details.

If I live long enough, I might be able to get all the vise manufacturers' names worked into the LIST.

 

[akasrick]

It is. Requires a lot of late-night reading of obscure documents, far too many of which are written in 19th-century Victorian English.


When sending information to one of the stewards at datamp.org, I have to have proof in some form that manufacturer X actually produced widget Y.
Anything less makes the LIST (and datamp.org) not 100% credible.



If I live long enough, I might be able to get all the vise manufacturers' names worked into the LIST.

Open mouth insert foot is what works for me.
I'm waiting for the little slip of paper to fall out of a book and it turns into the stone that brings down the glass house.
Good luck on your quest.

akasrick

 

[RTM]

Following up a bit more, 1st reference to Bonney Allentown in Google Books is 1909.



I also wandered down the Bonney Vise and Tool Works family tree. Started on Armstead O. Bills brought up a few new things that may not have been available in 2017 when the Spreading the Bonney Affliction. I posted information in that thread to follow up on @twertsy and @LesserSon ’s previous work, keep it together.

Quick summary, he was sole proprietor of BV&TW thru most of the 1890s.

Spreading the Bonney affliction!

Bumping this for @tpm2.

www.garagejournal.com

 

[CRSINMICH]

Eagle Anvil Works Combined Anvil and Vise (Fisher & Norris)
With a foot treadle​

 

[CRSINMICH]

DOES AND DON'T OF CHIPPING AND FILING​

This 1877 article also serves as a reminder that things were always better in the past. I expect that sometime long ago someone said something like... "Kids today only know how to make tools by banging rocks together. In my day a proper toolmaker used sharpened sticks!"

 

[neophyte]

DOES AND DON'T OF CHIPPING AND FILING​

This 1877 article also serves as a reminder that things were always better in the past. I expect that sometime long ago someone said something like... "Kids today only know how to make tools by banging rocks together. In my day a proper toolmaker used sharpened sticks!"

“Anvils” in ancient times used to be made from certain types of rock, which may have been way better than metal, till different metal alloys and techniques were perfected.
A giant piece of diorite, might still make a better anvil for shaping softer metals like aluminum or copper alloys, than the cast grey flake iron “anvils” that are and were sometimes sold by cheap retailers.
A diorite hammer would also make sense before steel was perfected, the user would just have to make sure they didn’t hit the diorite gammer, against the diorite anvil.

 

[akasrick]

I don't think it was overly friendly, have read where he (Bills) handed over the keys grudgingly.
I figure if he sold to them he was expecting to be unemployed.
Unfriendly takeover, stockholders revolt?
I imagine the "Phila gang" weren't happy.


akasrick

Since were on the subject, a 1914 catalog cut that says 2 vises in a set are not made in Bonney Vises.
Definitely doing business in Allentown.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachments/1914catalogcut-jpg.968150/

??

Definitely made somewhere

akasrick

 

[CRSINMICH]

More Bonney Information
(If you can stand it)​

The 1914 History of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania says that Bonney Vise & Tool Works moved from Philadelphia to Allentown in 1909 and that a "drop forging establishment was added and many new lines were started..." All of the company's officers are named Durham. Late edit: (RTM already covered this in post #4161)

In 1921 the company name was changed to Bonney Forge & Tool Works.

A 1922 Bonney Forge and Tool Works catalog includes Bonney Lehigh Vises. (Allentown is in Lehigh County)

That's as far as I'm going to chase Bonney history.

 

[four.cycle]

American Scale & Vise Co
Columbian
Desmond Stephan
Emco
Fray Mershon
Luther
Prentiss Cheney
Rock Island

 

[CRSINMICH]

The HENRY CHENEY HAMMER COMPANY
Not related to Cheney Anvil and Vise Co.​

Their ads give 1836 as the date it was established. At some point, much later, they produced a 'Forged Steel Vise'.
In 1925 the company was sold to Prentiss and in 1948 both were sold to Parker.

1896 Ad in Industrial World
1904 Partial listing of hammers in a Cheney catalog. (They made a lot of different hammers.)
1948 Ad for Cheney Forged Steel vise.
Photo of Forged Steel vise.

 

[akasrick]

A little off topic but an early possible relationship.
Prentiss 1896 catalog cut.

davistown

PDF writeup
Which reminds us that cut nails were used. Good picture of the hammer head.

Edit
Durham Dunham 1888 catalog wire nails none in the Prentiss catalog.


Edit
akasrick

 

[four.cycle]

Athol "Simpson"
Parker
Rock Island

 

[ALLFAST]

P.S.Stubs clamp on vise. 2-1/2” jaws that weights 3-1/2 lbs.

Quote from the owner.
This is a mid-late 1800s P.S. Stubs bench vise used by watchmakers, clockmakers, and jewelers. To see the intricacy in person is breathtaking. It weighs in at roughly 3½ lbs. and is in overall excellent condition. After a thorough cleanup and oiling, you can even see the coloration difference between the main body of the vise and the darker, hardened steel of the jaws and the top of the anvil.

That is a mechanical work of art. Simply amazing IMHO.

 

[four.cycle]

Hollands
Parker

 

[four.cycle]

Armstrong
McLellan
North Bros
Parker
Starrett
Wilcox

"Wilcox" at some later point became "Richards Wilcox"

McClellan / James A. McClellan, Menomonie, MN / Vise Attachment / patent 1249148 Dec 4 1917 James A. McClellan / * manufacturer unknown * /

(* NOT sure if this is the same James A. McClellan of Prairie City, Iowa, who was issued patent 403480 May 14 1889 for "End Gate for Wagons" *)

 

[Josh Dekubber]

Charles Parker 826. 6" jaws that opens to 9-1/2" and weights 187lbs.

That's one of my favorites!
Very Nice!

 

[Josh Dekubber]

@KMScott
May I ask your opinion on this 825 1/2? I haven't seen one before. Your 826 is the closest I've seen.

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[KMScott]

KMScott
May I ask your opinion on this 825 1/2? I haven't seen one before. Your 826 is the closest I've seen.

I didn’t own the 826 posted in the Spreadsheet. I just add the pic’s and spec:s. I have restored many Parkers and a 5-1/2” is a pretty hefty vise and it looks to be in great shape. You will not be disappointed if you pick it up.

 

[akasrick]

I didn’t own the 826 posted in the Spreadsheet. I just add the pic’s and spec:s. I have restored many Parkers and a 5-1/2” is a pretty hefty vise and it looks to be in great shape. You will not be disappointed if you pick it up.

Modesty will get you nowhere!
Thanks for what you do.

akasrick

 

[CRSINMICH]

Here is a 1939 catalog cut showing Parker's Superior 825 1/2. While looking for it, I found this undated cut showing Parker's Eclipse vises in the 950 series that gives the "Old Nos" for them. Likely, the 825 1/2 was renumbered at some time also. These cuts (and old numbers) probably fill in some gaps in the Spreadsheet.

 

[Josh Dekubber]

Excellent information! Thank you very much.
Only thing I'm confused about is that this 825 1/2 for sale is shown in a picture opening to 10 1/2". So maybe the threads aren't engaged at 10 1/2 in or maybe this was a special order?

 

[KMScott]

Josh, the max opening should be when the square slider is flush with the backside of the Static. Yes the vise will still open wider but the square slider will not be supported and could chip the Static’s dovetail. The cast dovetail takes all the stress from the Dynamic when opened past the square support. Here is one I repaired.

 

[Outlawmws]

Only thing I'm confused about is that this 825 1/2 for sale is shown in a picture opening to 10 1/2".

I mentioned That it opens to 9" and I think I saw a catalog entry to that effect.

 

[Josh Dekubber]

Josh, the max opening should be when the square slider is flush with the backside of the Static. Yes the vise will still open wider but the square slider will not be supported and could chip the Static’s dovetail. The cast dovetail takes all the stress from the Dynamic when opened past the square support. Here is one I repaired.

Thank you! That makes perfect sense

 

[Josh Dekubber]

I mentioned That it opens to 9" and I think I saw a catalog entry to that effect.

Yes thank you! 9 inches is plenty

 

[Josh Dekubber]

My Reed 204 R finally showed up today. I actually got my money back two or three weeks ago because it was lost by USPS. But then I guess it was found and showed up today at my house more than a month late. Scheduled to be delivered on December 20th. It's in really good shape. The other one is my Chas Parker 974 1/2. I really want to get that Chas Parker 825 1/2 too.

I'll be taking them apart clean and grease. I'll leave the Chas raw and paint the Reed.

 

[Beerhippie]

Excellent information! Thank you very much.
Only thing I'm confused about is that this 825 1/2 for sale is shown in a picture opening to 10 1/2". So maybe the threads aren't engaged at 10 1/2 in or maybe this was a special order?

My Reed opens infinitely by that measure!

 

[CRSINMICH]

WILTON "EXPORT" VISES​

I had seen this part of Wilton's 1953 catalog many times but hadn't really paid attention. The "export" type vises are slightly smaller and lighter than Wilton's regular vises. Interestingly, this type "...does not conform with Federal Specifications." I'm not sure exactly what that means but during WWII many companies adjusted their output and products to fit military requirements.

Kevin: This cut also provides two small specs missing from the Spreadsheet. The 40N weighs 37 lbs. and the 45N weighs 44 lbs. You may want to add a note somewhere that these are 'non-conforming' vises.

 

[CRSINMICH]

SUPREME Heavy Machinists Vise
Steelcraft Tool Corp
​

A general open screw vise (OSV). 3 1/4" jaws. Removeable pipe jaws. The 150 pound weight given is for a dozen. That works out to 12.5 lbs. per vise.

 

[Outlawmws]

That works out to 12.5 lbs. per vise.

That's a fair average I see for weights of exposed screw vises. -leaving the big pipe benders out of it.

 

[four.cycle]

Columbian
Millers Falls
Milwaukee Tool & Equipment
Mohawk Shelburne (Millers Falls)

 

[four.cycle]

apologies if any of these are duplicates...

Athol
Bonney
Cheney
Duche ?
Millers Falls
Parker
Prentiss
Trenton

 

[four.cycle]

Athol
Cheney
Emperor
Ohio King
Prentiss
Trenton
Bonney
Massey
Merrill
Peter Wright

 

[four.cycle]

Athol
Bonney
Cheney
Ohio King
Prentiss
Trenton

 

[four.cycle]

not sure of maker on these

 

[TheRealZeus]

apologies if any of these are duplicates...

If they’re upset they had to see them twice, they wouldn’t be in here.