Vise mounting question

[NC Rick]

Hi folks, I have a newly aquired a Reed 405 1928 or 29 which is in good shape. I’m the third owner and have a decent history of the tool (it was purchased new by the Nebel Knitting Mill in Charlotte, NC. I am ready to press it into service. The Reed is the largest vise I own and my target workbench to mount it to is what I consider medium duty made of 2” square tubing and a 5ft by 4ft with a 1/2” thick steel top.

I plan to mount the vise on the right hand corner in a way which allows the swivel base to span the front or side of the bench with the face of the static jaw overhangs the edge of the bench to accommodate longer vertical work.

My question is about mounting to the steel top. The vise I’m moving from the same spot is an colubian 3.5” Machinists with no swivel and it was bolted to the steel top with 1/2” fasteners into drilled and tapped holes which seemed perfect. The Reed vise can accept 7/8” bolts but those are mighty mighty strong and wonder what would be apropreate. I feel like I could tap the top up to 5/8” bolts but beyond that the tops thickness won’t really support the full potential strength of the fasteners. I could use washers or bushings to reduce the fasteners size. I know I’m overthinking this, it’s what I do... any insight or recommendations will be appreciated! 7/8” grade 8 fasteners with nuts and hardened backer washers seems overkill (intuitively). I would prefer to error to the too much side than not have it be strong enough.

 

[gman007]

Rick
I believe even 1/2" bolts with washers should be able to support 98 lb Reed 405. If you were to subject the vise to such forces that 1/2" bolts are not sufficient, most likely you will damage the vise (at very least break the ears) before 1/2" bolts giveaway.

 

[Steve_P]

I would approximately match the size of the bolts to the holes in the vise and use 3/4 bolts washers and nuts. Yes, its ridiculously overkill , but you won't need a stack of ugly washers on top of the vise that will bend when you tighten it down as with smaller sized bolts.

 

[bobcatdan]

I have a 170 lbs Parker mounted on my steel bench with a 1/4" steel top. Think I used 5/8" bolts straight threw with lock nuts. Bench is made out of 3×3 square tube stock with all six legs bolted to the floor. Very soild that I doubt it's going anywhere.

 

[NC Rick]

Hey guys, thank you! Both of you are thinking the same stuff I am. Gman, I’m figuring out that you are a voice of reason and very practical in your approach to stuff. Steve, you hit the nail on the head with regard to why I would use such a large fastener. I think I may combine both rationals and use some kind of machined bushing to adapt the hole size. The holes in the vise are huge at .868” I.D. and I’m trying to understand what the thinking was of the Reed engineers all those years ago. I’m not looking forward to drilling 3 x 3/4” holes through 1/2” thick steel plate.

I went through this same “process” (sort of a self-torture I suppose) about 5 years ago when mounting another vise. While I’m sure I have never come close to stressing the mounting, I have no regrets.

I’ll post a photo for your enjoyment... I used a router to partly inlay a 12”x12”, 3/8” plate partly into my maple bench top and used way too high of quality through bolts with underside reinforcement. The final step of overkill, which I consider to be the most worthwhile “tip” which I and others may want to take away from the exercise are the self-aligning, spherical washers which I think are really good considering the un-machined topside of the casting on vice “ears”.

I’ll give this a little more consideration before I leap

 

[gman007]

Rick
There is nothing wrong with planning and scrutinizing a plan before execution even for a seemingly straight forward task. I would say that is very wise (or is it vise )

BTW you seem to be already a subject matter expert. Nice job on mounting the Yost

 

[NC Rick]

I have learned that the biggest mistake I can make is to think I am an expert on anything! I can’t do math very well and I have no idea of the mounting ears strength are. I hoped for and received some wisdom from what others have done.

I think my perspective is warped, the size of the 405 is huge! On a standard height bench it positions work higher than I would like. I have a hard time picturing what could be clamped in it... some car’s differential housing? Pull on that to straighten something?

Mostly, I am looking for others insight on what could be done which I haven’t thought about (I have thought pretty hard). I love when I am given an idea which I couldn’t imagine and that happens often.

It makes me crazy that the Reed engineers designed for 7/8” fasteners! I know they were not dumb. I feel like I am missing something. It could simply be to allow for misalignment or for washers to crush. Over thinking, yes. Posting because I think I know what I’m doing, no.

This forum taught me about the swivel jaw pin problem I had. I likely would not have figured that out without the insight.

Me being critical, I’d say that reading about vises and other tools on GJ I notice what I perceive as some folks who collect tools without necessarily using them. I am very interested in both the history and application, in the past and the future. Without the things I read on GJ, I would never had purchased this particular vise and all the things I learned have made the whole process more fun.

I much enjoy the worthwhile feedback.

 

[matt_i]

I think you have to consider that its probable that steel tops are somewhat of a newer thing and most of these were bolted into wooden benchtops (ala butcher block/laminated solid wood strips) and so the large fasteners helped guard against wallering of the holes by twisting, etc. Basically more bearing area against the holes drilled into the wood as the vise was levered-on.

I think you're just fine with 1/2" bolts into a steel top. If you have a lathe you can turn some bushings to match everything up.

 

[454ragtop]

I think you have to consider that its probable that steel tops are somewhat of a newer thing and most of these were bolted into wooden benchtops (ala butcher block/laminated solid wood strips) and so the large fasteners helped guard against wallering of the holes by twisting, etc. Basically more bearing area against the holes drilled into the wood as the vise was levered-on.

I think you're just fine with 1/2" bolts into a steel top. If you have a lathe you can turn some bushings to match everything up.

What he said. You start reefing on the vise, doubt it will be the 1/2" bolts that will fail......

 

[NC Rick]

Thank you Matt, that is an explanation which makes sense to me. I’ll quit worrying and bolt the thing down. I want my work to be worthy of holding this old bit of engineering to the bench. I’m weird about that kind of stuff. I have two ideas hatching.

 

[ATC]

It's easy to get carried away with your thinking, especially with a dozen strangers giving you a dozen different ways of accomplishing the same task.

If it were me, I'd grab the biggest bolts that would work in it, plasma cut the holes in the top, and use nuts on the bottom. Bolt it down and get to using it!

 

[NC Rick]

Thanks folks! You know, I wish there was a “like” feature on the forum because I have liked all the responses. I don’t have a plasma cutter but I have some drills. I settled on 5/8 fasteners and used grade 8 because I have them and more is better, right.

Vise is on the bench and I’m pretty sure it won’t blow off the bench should a light breeze come through the door

I pretty well used some of all the advice I received and applied my own spin on that. Turned washers with on size holes with a locating step addressed the draft in the bolt holes. The mounting ears themselves were pretty flat so no self aligning washers. It’s been over thunk and mounted in a way I’ll be happy with for good.

Thanks again!