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vivint solar ?

Garage5.9

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Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,508
Location
Maui,Hawaii
Interested to see if any one has any experience with this company ? They came around the other day and explained to us that basically they put the system on my roof for FREE but we buy the electric from them for 0.30$/kw compared to the 0.40$ maui electric is selling it to us for which is guaranteed to hike their rates again soon. any input ?
 
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Lynnhowlyn

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Feb 20, 2010
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298
Location
St George, Utah
MAY NOT BE the exactly the same as what you've been offered - but my son recently had opportunity to have a similar system (panels, inverter and other electronics) installed on his home in SoCal (Fontana).
Basically the company installed a very large system on his home - with no out of pocket $$$ for him. He effectively leased his roof-top to the solar company.
If I recall correctly - the company "harvests" the electricity from the panels and puts it into the grid (sells it to SoCal Edison) - and my son buys his household electrical needs from them (and since it's not mine, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details) at a rate equal to their "Tier 2" pricing from Edison - irrespective of how much they use.
And they get the Tier 2 pricing going forward, even if Edison were to raise rates.
The company handles all of the maintenance, repairs for the duration of the agreement, and after 20 years my son will own the equipment.

It's not available in my area (I've checked) - but if it were, I'd sign up in a heartbeat.

YMMV
 

Mavawreck

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Durham NC
Sounds like what the poster above said - rooftop leasing agreement. I'd have a lawyer run through the paperwork before signing anything. Who's liable for damages, upkeep, what happens when the roof needs to be replaced, what happens if they go out of business, etc.
 

David W

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K.C. MO
Is there a bank of batteries stored on your property? That is a never ending expense, there's always some going out.
 

ddawg16

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Jul 11, 2008
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Location
S. California
Not exactly the best deal....

What they are not telling you is that they are getting the rebate....

At those prices....it would seem that purchasing the system would be a better deal.

In CA, the typical payback seems to be between 7-10 years....sooner if you have AC. In the above case...there is no payback. As already explained....your basically renting your roof out....

They get customers to buy into it because of the no cash outlay up front....but in real economic terms....not a very good deal...
 

philip_g

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Apr 12, 2012
Messages
821
Not exactly the best deal....

What they are not telling you is that they are getting the rebate....

At those prices....it would seem that purchasing the system would be a better deal.

In CA, the typical payback seems to be between 7-10 years....sooner if you have AC. In the above case...there is no payback. As already explained....your basically renting your roof out....

They get customers to buy into it because of the no cash outlay up front....but in real economic terms....not a very good deal...

I tend to agree, and geeze at .40 a kw/h I bet the payback is a lot sooner.
Maybe in a couple years the initial cost will come down a bit and I'll consider it, I'd really like to.

I read an article somewhere a car company is (or considering) selling a solar charging system for one of their electric vehicles, neat tie in.
 
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hh76

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Nov 9, 2010
Messages
3,441
Location
NE Wisconsin
Is there a bank of batteries stored on your property? That is a never ending expense, there's always some going out.

You don't need batteries for this type system

What is you need your roof replaced?

The system will last 30+yrs, so I always tell a customer to make sure the roof underneath will also last that long. Not a good idea to install the solar on a roof that is already 15yrs old. Get at least that facet of the roof replaced if in question

Not exactly the best deal....

What they are not telling you is that they are getting the rebate....

At those prices....it would seem that purchasing the system would be a better deal.

In CA, the typical payback seems to be between 7-10 years....sooner if you have AC. In the above case...there is no payback. As already explained....your basically renting your roof out....

They get customers to buy into it because of the no cash outlay up front....but in real economic terms....not a very good deal...

Like any lease, it's not always the best deal for the customer, but it's an option if you don't have access to the cash up front. I'd get a couple quotes for the same system without the lease, and compare.
 

squeaker

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Apr 5, 2014
Messages
1
you have to sign a contract for 20 yrs, if you plan to sell your house the new owners have to take on the contract since the 20 yrs contract is with the property. Also you have to buy all the electricity the solar panel produces even if you use less. The balance of the kilowatts that was produced that you didn't used is credited by your electricity company. They will not buy that electricity from you since its own by vivint solar. if you have to fix your roof you have to pay $499 to remove the panels plus you also have to pay the estimated production of electricity the panels will produce on the time it was shut down. Beware you are leasing your roof but the loss outweight the gain. check BBB!
 
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paranoid56

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San Diego, Ca
vivint is the guys in the orange trucks right? they are everywhere here in san diego. i think in my 2 block street they installed 10+ houses with their solar. we went with a different company but same pricing really.

the setup is slick. no money out of pocket (we even got them to install a new larger electrical panel) yes, you do loose out on the tax rebates, but you also dont have to spend that 35k to install it. We save about 30-40 bucks a month on our setup (IIRC)

they are responsible if they damage the roof, any damaged to the panels and so on. but as other have said, if you need to replace your roof, then you will get the cost associated with that. (which you would have to if you owned it also)

we are guaranteed a min output of ours, if it doesn't make it you get a check at the end of the year.

also, if you do sell the house you have an option to buy it out right or transfer it to the new buyer.
 

walrus

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Location
Maine
I'm under the impression that the power generated declines fairly predictably -- it will only be generating maybe 75% to 80% at 20 years, falling rapidly thereafter.

Am I wrong?
Most panel manufacturers guarantee 80% after 20 years, I haven't heard falling rapidly after 20 years though
 

TangoFoxTrot

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Jan 23, 2009
Messages
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My concern with solar is usually the only way it works financially is when the government is subsidizing it.

At some point, the government subsidies are going to stop. It was always justified that it was incentives just to get the technology "off the ground" and not permanent.

Already in my state, they have started to pull back with changes to "net metering" and more on the way. The concern is that non-solar users are getting their rates jacked up to pay for solar users. When it was just a novelty it didn't matter, but now it's really started costing a lot of money.

With something like a lease, I wonder who's holding the bag when the state just says "you're on your own" and no longer pays a premium for power generated by a solar panel.

Considering you're in Hawaii and you pay absurd rates for electricity though, it's probably a much safer gamble whatever happens as I don't see that dynamic changing. I would probably bite the bullet and put solar if I lived there, but most states pay nowhere near that.
 

LS6 Tommy

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Northern NJ
If you're going to do solar, let them own & maintain the entire system including transmission lines, batteries, pole tie-in AND your roof. Get EVERYTHING in writing. It's almost a scam. These companies are all getting federal subsidaries to put their panels on your roof. They probably won't be around in 5 years, forget about 20. Public schools got sucked into the whole thing about 5 years ago. Panels were installed, contracts written. When the Feds stopped handing out the money, the companies disappeared one by one. Now there's a new bag of funding, so the whole cycle is starting over. One problem is the panels don't all degrade at the same rate & many need replacement faster than they pay for themselves. That's not so bad if the company is legit & really take care of it. Also, there's no way to service your roof. All said and done, if it lasts long enough that you end up owning it, it's just about worthless. And you need a new roof, too...


Tommy
 
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paranoid56

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San Diego, Ca
My concern with solar is usually the only way it works financially is when the government is subsidizing it.

At some point, the government subsidies are going to stop. It was always justified that it was incentives just to get the technology "off the ground" and not permanent.

Already in my state, they have started to pull back with changes to "net metering" and more on the way. The concern is that non-solar users are getting their rates jacked up to pay for solar users. When it was just a novelty it didn't matter, but now it's really started costing a lot of money.

With something like a lease, I wonder who's holding the bag when the state just says "you're on your own" and no longer pays a premium for power generated by a solar panel.

Considering you're in Hawaii and you pay absurd rates for electricity though, it's probably a much safer gamble whatever happens as I don't see that dynamic changing. I would probably bite the bullet and put solar if I lived there, but most states pay nowhere near that.

i guess i dont follow on this. yes, govt subsidies will stop soon, however its not like you get that every year. you just get it when you purchase it. and yes the solar lease company is getting that money now. but if you never had the money to buy the system anyways you would have never goten the help anyways.

and i dont think the state will just stop making the power company buy back power at a reasonable price. thats the whole job of the PUC. what type of changes are they changing in your state?

i know here, they dont pay a "premium" on power we sell back, i think they pay something like 20c on the dollar. however, where we are, any power we make over that we used that day just spin the meter backwards. so at night it comes back, now if we have more then we use at the end of the year we pay, if we have less they the power company pays.

and as for the roof comment, all roofs need replacement some time. so no matter what, anything you put on the roof (solar heaters for pools, or solar) will have to be replaced. our company told us to just turn it off and let the roofers take the panels off and we will have to pay 200 or so to have the solar company come back out and put them back up and hook it up. so its not really an issue.
 

paranoid56

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
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Location
San Diego, Ca
If you're going to do solar, let them own & maintain the entire system including transmission lines, batteries, pole tie-in AND your roof. Get EVERYTHING in writing. It's almost a scam. These companies are all getting federal subsidaries to put their panels on your roof. They probably won't be around in 5 years, forget about 20. Public schools got sucked into the whole thing about 5 years ago. Panels were installed, contracts written. When the Feds stopped handing out the money, the companies disappeared one by one. Now there's a new bag of funding, so the whole cycle is starting over. One problem is the panels don't all degrade at the same rate & many need replacement faster than they pay for themselves. That's not so bad if the company is legit & really take care of it. Also, there's no way to service your roof. All said and done, if it lasts long enough that you end up owning it, it's just about worthless. And you need a new roof, too...


Tommy

:lol: paranoid much? so every solar lease company out there that we looked at, all covered all of that. except for batteries. as no lease company will do a battery back up setup as its not worth it for them. (and really only good if you are going off grid) they pay for everything including any damage they do to your roof. however, if your roof is old why would they cover that? thats up to the home owner.

and so if these company are fly by night are you saying after 5 years the company shuts down and now you have free solar? these company arnt going anywhere as they are making money on the monthly fees.
 

jeffws

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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Orange County California
I looked at the lease option but decided to go ahead and purchase. We have only been up and running for a couple months. Our house is 1900 sqf and we went with a 4kw system. Our daily average usage right now is 12-15 kwh and we have been producing 15-20 kwh a day. For now we are banking the extra kwh but Im sure we will burn through them in the summer when we run the AC.

Cost was $17,000 minus $680 SDG&E rebate and a 30% Federal tax credit. We have 16 panels with one inverter. 20 year warranty on the panels and 12 years on the inverter - pretty happy so far.:)
 

TangoFoxTrot

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Jan 23, 2009
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i guess i dont follow on this. yes, govt subsidies will stop soon, however its not like you get that every year. you just get it when you purchase it. and yes the solar lease company is getting that money now. but if you never had the money to buy the system anyways you would have never goten the help anyways.

and i dont think the state will just stop making the power company buy back power at a reasonable price. thats the whole job of the PUC. what type of changes are they changing in your state?

i know here, they dont pay a "premium" on power we sell back, i think they pay something like 20c on the dollar. however, where we are, any power we make over that we used that day just spin the meter backwards. so at night it comes back, now if we have more then we use at the end of the year we pay, if we have less they the power company pays.

and as for the roof comment, all roofs need replacement some time. so no matter what, anything you put on the roof (solar heaters for pools, or solar) will have to be replaced. our company told us to just turn it off and let the roofers take the panels off and we will have to pay 200 or so to have the solar company come back out and put them back up and hook it up. so its not really an issue.

The way many states do it is the power company is forced to pay a homeowner a "on peak" rate (the highest rate) for all power that's sold back to the grid from solar, so it's not say not 20 cents on the dollar.

Usually the way it works is during the day, some people's panels produce more electricity than the house is using at that particular time, so the power company "buys" the electricity at their highest rate and then credits the homeowner with that "money" to balance out their use at night.

The problem is, the power companies don't really want to buy this electricty at such a high rate, it's much cheaper for them to produce it themselves at their plants and they easily have the excess capacity. So this "loss" has to come somewhere, and usually it means jacking up other people's rates.

At some point, the power companies are simply going to say "whatever extra electricty you make is not our concern" and then the economics of installing solar gets even worse. Most of the solar companies that "lease" these panels have models that depend on this subsidy. Once it's gone, they're basically bankrupt.

In my state, they've have started introducing new user fees for solar users and are chipping away at this model. I believe most subsidies will be gone in a few years because it's hard to make the case why solar should have some sort of permanent subsidy. The solar leasing companies flipped out and spend crazy money trying to keep the old models in place.

Also, I don't believe for a minute these systems are really going to average out with 20 years of useful life. That's going to be the exception, not the rule. Most of this stuff is made in China at cut rate prices. I can't get 20 years out of a simple roof, much less Chinese electronic equipment that's exposed to the elements 24/7. So when you have a model of a 20 year lease, I have to wonder what happens if the company goes out of business or if the equipment is no longer functional.

If I went around selling "investments" that "might" let you break even in 20 years, I'd probably be in prison. But in a state like HI where the electricity is 4-5 times what it is in most states, solar starts making sense and I would probably have solar panels on my house.
 

walrus

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Nov 12, 2008
Messages
11,674
Location
Maine
I looked at the lease option but decided to go ahead and purchase. We have only been up and running for a couple months. Our house is 1900 sqf and we went with a 4kw system. Our daily average usage right now is 12-15 kwh and we have been producing 15-20 kwh a day. For now we are banking the extra kwh but Im sure we will burn through them in the summer when we run the AC.

Cost was $17,000 minus $680 SDG&E rebate and a 30% Federal tax credit. We have 16 panels with one inverter. 20 year warranty on the panels and 12 years on the inverter - pretty happy so far.:)

What brand panels and what brand inverter?
 

LS6 Tommy

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Dec 27, 2013
Messages
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Northern NJ
:lol: paranoid much? so every solar lease company out there that we looked at, all covered all of that. except for batteries. as no lease company will do a battery back up setup as its not worth it for them. (and really only good if you are going off grid) they pay for everything including any damage they do to your roof. however, if your roof is old why would they cover that? thats up to the home owner.

and so if these company are fly by night are you saying after 5 years the company shuts down and now you have free solar? these company aren't going anywhere as they are making money on the monthly fees.

I'm not paranoid, I've been through this before & you've COMPLETELY missed the point... The companies aren't making any real $$ except what the government GIVES them, other than the minimal amount of "buyback" they get for adding power to the grid. That's why you're screwed when the subsidies run out. You don't get "free" solar power if they go out of business, you're stuck with maintaining a losing proposition. Also, no matter what condition your roof is in, once the panels are up on it, there's little or no easy way to maintain or service it. That's exactly why your contract should dictate that the panel owner needs to be responsible for the upkeep of your roof...

Tommy
 
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