Wait...HF hand tools are lifetime warranty??

[rebelram]

OK so I'll throw a pretty wild "what-if" out there.

Sears goes under. HF buys out the Craftsman licensing, Danher continues to make Craftsman handtools, but ships them to HF, prices remain about the same. Warranty stays the same. Bad deal or good thing?

 

[Danglerb]

Moving manufacturing back to the western world is the first step in preventing China from becoming the super power it could well be. Personally, i think we need to decimate the country..

Creating a strong middle class is how you end communism, and trade prevents wars.

If you don't think China would be dangerous with somebodies foot on its throat, perhaps you should think a bit more about reality.

 

[Danglerb]

OK so I'll throw a pretty wild "what-if" out there.

Sears goes under. HF buys out the Craftsman licensing, Danher continues to make Craftsman handtools, but ships them to HF, prices remain about the same. Warranty stays the same. Bad deal or good thing?

Sears already went under, Kmart owns them. HF would never fly, they already have more than two brands of lifetime warranty tools, and a premium Pittsburgh Pro line they are trying to get going.

Costco or Sams buying Craftsman might work, but maybe as likely is that Danher buys the name and sells and warranties the brand through many outlets.

 

[tpolley]

why don't we get some guys together on the garage journal forum and buy craftsman. we can sell them out of our garages or maybe a craftsman truck.

 

[BackTracker]

MAybe if the prices were raised a thousand percent and they were sold off a truck they would get some respect.

 

[Merkava_4]

Moving manufacturing back to the western world is the first step in preventing China from becoming the super power it could well be. Personally, i think we need to decimate the country..

That's a refreshing commentary after reading all the posts by the Chinese tool lovers.

 

[Bull]

That's a refreshing commentary after reading all the posts by the Chinese tool lovers.

Check your: shoes, undies, shirts, pants, tires, furniture, Tupperware, cell phone and other detritus of your life. Let me know what kind of "Chinese" lover you are.

 

[Snappy]

Check your: shoes, undies, shirts, pants, tires, furniture, Tupperware, cell phone and other detritus of your life. Let me know what kind of "Chinese" lover you are.

Shoes: Red Wing-USA
Underwear:Hanes-Honduras
Shirts:USA,Mexico,Honduras
Pants:USA,Mexico,Guatemala
Tires:Cooper-USA
Furniture/Tupperwear-Don't own any
Cell phone:Motorola -China (POS)

I guess I'm not much of a Chinese lover

I must have slept through this part of biology class

Detritus
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
In biology, detritus is non-living particulate organic material (as opposed to dissolved organic material). It typically includes the bodies or fragments of dead organisms as well as ***** material. Detritus is typically colonized by communities of microorganisms which act to decompose (or remineralize) the material

 

[Bull]

My post was directed at Merk. He's got Chinese in his life.

Stop using Wikipedia for important information. It *****. If you wanna research the A-team or something like that, it's fine. For words, use a proper paper or online dictionary.

Detritus is any disintegrated material; debris. In this case, all the debris that clutters one's life...much of which is of Chinese origin, I am sure.

Shoes: Red Wing-USA
Underwear:Hanes-Honduras
Shirts:USA,Mexico,Honduras
Pants:USA,Mexico,Guatemala
Tires:Cooper-USA
Furniture/Tupperwear-Don't own any
Cell phone:Motorola -China (POS)

I guess I'm not much of a Chinese lover

I must have slept through this part of bioligy class

Detritus
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
In biology, detritus is non-living particulate organic material (as opposed to dissolved organic material). It typically includes the bodies or fragments of dead organisms as well as ***** material. Detritus is typically colonized by communities of microorganisms which act to decompose (or remineralize) the material

 

[Snappy]

My post was directed at Merk. He's got Chinese in his life.

I know that ^. Most computers that I know of are made in China.

 

[Bull]

I had thought of the computer example after I posted the reply. It's a good one!

 

[cwstevens92]

Check and see how many parts on your car are made in usa.

 

[Merkava_4]

Are you guys willing to surrender ALL of our manufacturing base to the Chinese?

 

[Bull]

Are you guys willing to surrender ALL of our manufacturing base to the Chinese?

Nope. I said as much a few posts above. But to epithetically refer to us as Chinese tool lovers if we buy stuff from HF is guaranteed to be hypocritical, since you have Chinese stuff all over your life.

I'd much prefer we make everything here. But the consumers cannot be blamed for starting this rush to outsource. That's on the big dogs.

Which classic economist was it who explained that if goods can be made more cheaply in another country, then it makes sense to buy them from there rather than try to artificially create conditions for their production at home? Was it Adam Smith? I can't recall. For a bunch of reasons I hate, we can't compete with the cheapness of foreign labor.

 

[cwstevens92]

I second that I would much rather no prefer that everything i want/need to buy be made right here in the usa..but that is now history and we will never see that ever again, not even close.

 

[Bull]

It's funny. I teach about seven or eight Chinese students this year. You'd never know they were from a supposedly Communist country. And, they all have favorable impressions of America. Quite favorable, actually.

 

[Merkava_4]

Nope. I said as much a few posts above. But to epithetically refer to us as Chinese tool lovers if we buy stuff from HF is guaranteed to be hypocritical, since you have Chinese stuff all over your life.

That depends on where you draw the line at ... I draw that line at tools and similar extreme durable goods.

By the way, my spell check has automatically underlined your word "epithetically" and says the word "esthetically" is preferred.

 

[Bull]

That depends on where you draw the line at ... I draw that line at tools and similar extreme durable goods.

By the way, my spell check has automatically underlined your word "epithetically" and says the word "esthetically" is preferred.

Why draw the line at tools and not the computer that you are pounding the keys on right now? It's a random line to draw.

I took creative license and adapted the word "epithetical," which does exist, by adding an ly to the end. It suited what I wanted to say i.e. you were referring to us with an unpleasant sobriquet. But yes, I made that form of it up.

 

[AutoTech]

Are you guys willing to surrender ALL of our manufacturing base to the Chinese?

How are we going to stop it? There is very little made in the USA today and we can't just quit buying stuff period be it tools, tv's or whatever. I would love to boycott everything from other countries but that's just not realistic because you wouldn't own very much. Don't get me wrong I don't like all of are manufacturing moving to other countries and I feel that is a big part of whats wrong with are economy today but what are you going to do, because it's only going to get worse with the greedy CEO's wanting to make bigger profits.

 

[Merkava_4]

How are we going to stop it?

If you're a living and breathing soul and make purchases from time to time, YOUR money is a powerful vote!! If a majority of us in this country did that, the SOBs in charge of the tool companies would either switch production back to the U.S. or they'd lose their ***!!

 

[cwstevens92]

I draw the line at what i can afford and what gets the job done. 99% of what i have frrom HF is good stuff and i beat the hell out of my tools (all of them) working on everything from big rig trucks and trailers to hot rods to my model m john deere to that junk old lawn mower i built from 3 others that still mows the yard after 3 yrs.

 

[Merkava_4]

I draw the line at what i can afford and what gets the job done.

You're only hurting yourself with that attitude. The economy in this country is not sustainable without a manufacturing base. Every job and every career is either directly or indirectly related to the manufacturing sector. If various manufacturing facilities keep shutting down like they have been because of the Americans that keep buying Chinese produced products that are subsidized by the Chinese government, you sir aren't going to have a job some day. If you do have a job, it will be a job that you would see in a third world country.

 

[Bull]

You're only hurting yourself with that attitude.

You know who else is hurting us, Merk? Whoever the f it is that has created a scenario in which to buy a goddamn SO tool I need Grand Canyon Pockets. Three to four OR MORE times as much for a SO set of wrenches compared to say a C-man or other US made brand? More for a SO toolbox than the car I drive every days costs??? Give me a break. I've got an Ivy League education but a career that leaves me always having to figure out how to run a household, support a family, and buy tools I want and need to do the projects around here that I can't and don't want to pay someone to do for me. I can't go into debt like a lot of people do for a goddamn SO box and tool set just because they have some Flank Drive mojo. Sorry, not joining the club. So yeah, when I NEEDED a floor nailer to do the new wood floors in my beautiful little girl's nursery last spring, I went to HF and got the one that people on here said was awesome. For about 1/3 or less than the price of a Milwaukee or similar, I got a nailer that worked super-******* and with a LIFETIME replacement warranty.

The guilt train wont be stopping by my station. Thank you, Taiwan, for my super-******* floor nailer at a great price

 

[cwstevens92]

No Comment

 

[Merkava_4]

I'll give you an example:

Yesterday I went to JIS (Johnston Industrial Supply) for a 10" Simonds double cut, second cut flat file. The total bill came to $11.21. I told the guy I'd give him $11 and a quarter. He didn't feel the need to bother with the 4 cents change and said $11 is fine. They also treated me with respect and called me "sir." I in return addressed the guy who was helping me as "sir."

I left with a good feeling in my heart because I bought an American made file from an establishment who understands the importance of the American industry and provided me with outstanding customer service.

I'm one of the few people in this country that "gets it."

 

[Bull]

That's all you got? I talk about the inflated costs of US-made tools like SO that actually PROHIBIT me from buying them, forcing me to find alternatives, and you come back with a story about an $11 file?

Hello, non-sequitur.

Well, whatever. I buy American, When-I-Can. But to reiterate, it's not the consumer who is to blame for the exodus of our manufacturing. That odious blame needs to be placed elsewhere, in higher circles.

 

[cwstevens92]

If you have such a problem with imported product then i suggest you call your senetor and congressmen and tell them about it!
I wounder how much of the material used to make your file was imported?

 

[PistolWhip]

Some people seem not to have read the thread on here in which members share which HF tools work well and which break easily or are just ****. Plenty of HF items have given people years of service in rough environments without breaking.

This is so true and it goes just the same for Craftsman. Sure the **** is fewer and farther between with Craftsman, but the price is also much higher. You get what you pay for most of the time, but sometimes you can come accross a great value. I've gotten quite a few tools from HF over the years and have never had to take one back for any warranty. I am selective in what I buy from there, but for what I do in my garage, I'd be stupid to spend a fortune on some things when I can get something that will hold up just as well for my uses, for 1/4 or less the price.

 

[autoace]

If you're a living and breathing soul and make purchases from time to time, YOUR money is a powerful vote!! If a majority of us in this country did that, the SOBs in charge of the tool companies would either switch production back to the U.S. or they'd lose their ***!!

We are already at a point where, sometimes we don't have a choice. I was using my OTC front end set today, and realized there is no American made alternative at this point, period. If things keep up, everything will become this way.

Imagine if they stopped importing underwear, next thing you know undies would become a costly comodity.

We are already at the point where we don't make enough to sustain ourselves.

 

[Merkava_4]

and you come back with a story about an $11 file?

Not just any $11 file ... but a finely made file that just so happens to cost $11.

Snap-on tools are expensive compared to other makes of tools, but they're just one option at this time; for U.S. made tools, there are others. If you guys keep buying Chinese made tools, someday there won't be ANY U.S. made tools to choose from.

I've been over to Harbor Freight -- I've looked at their wrenches, sockets, ratchets, pliers, and screwdrivers. The quality is terrible; I wouldn't have any of it -- it reminds me of the junk that was sent here imported from Japan when I was a kid.

 

[oldtools]

Why does people expect a "valued" tool to have the same performance as a "professional" tool (that cost ten times more) while being badly abused. Everybody pampered their SO while abusing their HF, then ***** about HF not performing like an SO. Every tool has its place. Valued tool is for light to medium duty and light on the pocket. If they are used as intended, they will serve their purpose.

I have many HF tools and all perform well. Havn't broken anything yet. I definitely can not afford new SO tools without going to the poor house. I try to buy used SO tools if I can afford it. So far my $20 HF torque wrench (compare to $300 SO) work pretty well.

Can't expect a GE LCD TV to perform like a Sony Bravia LCD TV or a Chevy Chavelier to a Ferrari Enzo.

 

[Merkava_4]

I definitely can not afford new SO tools without going to the poor house.

The message I'm putting out is not to buy all Snap-on tools, but rather U.S. made tools whenever possible. The job you save might be your own someday.

 

[johnny1290]

Just FWIW I've seen clothing manufacturers in Honduras...the one I'm thinking of looked more like a prison compound and was run by....wait for it....people of asian decent that could easily have been mistaken for chinese(I didn't ask them where they were from).

I don't have a pic, but the scene caught my attention.

 

[BackTracker]

We are already at a point where, sometimes we don't have a choice. I was using my OTC front end set today, and realized there is no American made alternative at this point, period. If things keep up, everything will become this way.

Imagine if they stopped importing underwear, next thing you know undies would become a costly comodity.

We are already at the point where we don't make enough to sustain ourselves.

Precisely why I forgo the elastic banded restraints of our forefathers and swing freely as God intended.

 

[Stick Figure]

The message I'm putting out is not to buy all Snap-on tools, but rather U.S. made tools whenever possible. The job you save might be your own someday.

while i think most everyone here agrees w/ the statement, sometimes it would just be dumb to not be keeping an eye on everyone's products. I'll give another example:

Snap on:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...8&group_ID=796&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

$24.80

Matco:

http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2323&page=3&#53053

$23.80

Harbor Freight

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97871

$5.99



for this tool, Snap on is no different than Harbor Freight, they are both importing a tool built in china, and selling it in America. So if you want to pay an extra $20 for it from Matco or Snap on, then great, but i'll be in line at harbor picking it up. I'm just not rich enough to spend extra money when i don't have to.

 

[Bull]

Stick Figure, another voice of reason.

Merk, you are one of the guys who bashes Craftsman's balls all the time, or at least you used to, despite the fact that they are still (for the most part) made in America. Meanwhile, you talk to Snap-On game. But now you are saying you aren't telling people only to buy SO?

Ok, fine...ANY of the truck brands, which are all pricey, are not going to be getting my money. I buy vintage American first, new American when I can afford it, and others when necessary.

The example that Stick posted is a good one. The truck brands are so cocky, they think they can slap their sticker on a tool and sell it for four times what it sells for elsewhere?

 

[volvo420coupe]

If I only needed as many tools as was required to fix cars back in the day, then I could afford all USA tools like many did back in the day.

With today's modern cars, you need a lot more tools to stay on top of your game, and a lot of them will be imported.

And Merk, I have heard a lot of Taiwan and Japan tool lovers, but I don't think we have many Chinese tool lovers here.

I own many and use several, but I don't "love" em.

I think American manufacturing would stand a much better chance if the CEO's took an appropriate salary instead of 200+ times what their average employee makes.

 

[chromemoly]

HF would never fly, they already have more than two brands of lifetime warranty tools, and a premium Pittsburgh Pro line they are trying to get going.

I've been over to Harbor Freight -- I've looked at their wrenches, sockets, ratchets, pliers, and screwdrivers. The quality is terrible; I wouldn't have any of it.

I bought this today on clearance for the low price of $4.57, I purchased a 22mm one also for $2.57.....there not cman but as long as they do what I want them to do thats good enough for me.

 

[Bull]

Damn...the finish sure is nice on that piece. Can you tell us about the feel, how it fits a fastener, how the ratcheting works? I've never seen a Pittsburgh Professional polished tool in person....

 

[cwstevens92]

I've been over to Harbor Freight -- I've looked at their wrenches, sockets, ratchets, pliers, and screwdrivers. The quality is terrible; I wouldn't have any of it -- it reminds me of the junk that was sent here imported from Japan when I was a kid.

Ok, i'll tell you this i work on big rig truck and trailers as well as hot rods and custom stuff as i have said before everything i have from HF stands up and i beat the hell out of everything i have..the quality, i wounder if you have ever used anything from HF?
Look if you can afford to buy only american made stuff which means SO or craftsman (and i still stand by "where do the materials come from they make those tools come from, more than 90% imported i'm sure) then good for you buddy, cause if you can afford to only buy that stuff you must be the same guy that has enough cash to live in a 5K square foot house with a 2K square foot shop that is full of customs or hot rods or resto mods that you never touched in the build process and probably never even change the oil in. Those of us in the real world will buy what we can to get our jobs done to the best of our skills, you sir need to take your *** to washington and complain to the because its the gov. that made it too hard for american compaines to keep up and put a great product out there to compete iwth other countries who do great stuff for cheaper...you sir are either one of those rich assholes that wanted/allowed it to happen or one of those american workers who instead of working for an honest wage demanded too much money for half the work which also allowed and lite the fire for companies to say screw it i can get the same if not better done for cheaper overseas...REAL WORLD DUDE, WE WHO WORK WITH TOOLS for a living will buy what we can for the best price we can afford in order to get the job done, we do not have the means to sit back and say oh thats made somewhere other than the us, screw it i cant do it cause i dont have the tool.