Polski-Chevy
Well-known member
Wait a minute that sounds familiar...
Right, Back to the Future 2
Glad to have my 2nd post done, pad
WAIT!!! There may be hope for Craftsman Tools!
- Thread starter FordExplorer
- Start date
Wait a minute that sounds familiar...
Right, Back to the Future 2
Glad to have my 2nd post done, pad
egnorant
Well-known member
As long as there is a problem, this will come up.
Fix the problem and the complaining might just stop!
BUY Craftsman made in China...NO!
Bemoan the loss of an icon of American quality, value and service...YES!
I see the argument that no one fixes things anymore.
Then why are we building these wonderful workshops and discussing tools here?
On my street alone there are 3 home shops being built!
We just got a resale/repair shop opening nearby and it seems to be doing very well.
If you wish to avoid discussions about quality tools, brother, you are in the wrong place.
Bruce
Sooosirius
Member
Baby steps, working on it...
Working on what? They were made in the USA, now RECENTLY overseas.. if they never went overseas there'd be nothing to work on and no baby steps to be taken. Nothing to get excited about here.
Working on what? They were made in the USA, now RECENTLY overseas.. if they never went overseas there'd be nothing to work on and no baby steps to be taken. Nothing to get excited about here.
Seems like baby steps refers to the power that the FB moderators have.
I am very impressed with this thread, it is not the same as the other CM threads, much more eloquence and thoughtfulness put into the posts. As most of you know I feel pretty strongly about this subject as well, and this thread sums up the majority of my feelings on the matter.
I am very impressed with this thread, it is not the same as the other CM threads, much more eloquence and thoughtfulness put into the posts. As most of you know I feel pretty strongly about this subject as well, and this thread sums up the majority of my feelings on the matter.
mmack66
Well-known member
Why hasn't SearsBot posted in this thread yet? Usually it is all over these social media threads.
Link-Belt
Well-known member
Searsbot is in a corporate meeting in China.
sent from my Go F@!k Yourself using tapatalk 2
sent from my Go F@!k Yourself using tapatalk 2
Sears stores are on the ropes already with reduced foot traffic. By putting Chinese tools in their stores at the same prices as before they are making a calculated bet that the reduction in sales will be offset by the increase in margin. When you couple that with the likely much lower cost of stocking the shelves with these tools, even at 75% fewer sales they could still be making a much better return on their investment. It is sad though to see the withering of a once mighty retail giant.
Basically what it should be right now. They have a cheaper "Evolv" line, let that be their cheapo china ****.
A very good post, well written.Hey Ford Explorer, don't worry about your post bringing up some complaints about another Sears bashing thread. Some people forget that this is a public, opinion-based website, and there is a lot of public opinion about this topic! I say if it's on your mind, air it out, that's why we're on this board. Conversely, if you don't like it, read another thread (Snap On bashing anyone...?).
I think this post is very interesting, as the OP identifies himself as a teenager. I feel bad that kids like him won't have access to quality, affordable products through a mass retailer. Especially quality products that are made by people that can support our way of life in this country.
Anyway, OP, your post is well intended, well written, and especially interesting considering your age. I wish that Sears did pay attention to what their customers were saying, and would notice that it's not just the 'old' guys demanding made in USA tools. Most companies are very concerned with younger demos because that is their future growth prospects.
To the point of the thread, I will not buy crappy made in China tools. I will continue to buy made in USA CM tools if they are good quality. This sends a positive message to those greedy MF'ers at Sears that people want quality USA tools. If I just boycotted them, it would not have an impact on their current direction, they just would not know the difference. So I boycott the junk, buy the quality, and hope they see there is a business in stocking quality tools.
I admit, this does not seem to be having much of an affect on their direction!. However, we getting some great deals on USA CM clearance tools!
It really is a sad evolution in this country. The Sears example is the latest in cheap outsoucing of labor. These Asian tools will continue to get more expensive (to drive the necessary year over year cash flow growth of these corporations), until they are as expensive as the former quality-made US tools. Sears is interesting, and bold in this approach, because they have just dropped in the junk China copy/replacement tools on the same shelf hook, AT THE SAME PRICE, as the US made stuff they have discontinued!
As the price points get too high, and the associated standard of living increases in these formerly "developing" countries, the corporations will need to find the next "developing" country (AKA, oppressed country) to take advantage of their ignorant, starving peasants to get the much needed cheap labor. You see this already with Vietnam and India, to name a couple. Hell, we will likely be candidates before too long (or should I say, 'once again'), they just need to continue starving out the working class by outsourcing our labor to China, Mexico, etc...
By the way, this is not Sears bashing, they are doing what most corporations have done to make their money; sell out the American worker. And it's our government that passes their (corporation's) laws to make this happen. This is not a Sears issue. It just stings more with Sears because they truly did represent the working person in this country, at one time. This is not a democrat, or Republican thing, they are the same, and represent the same corporate interests. And this is not a political rant, this is a real persons frustration with seeing people taken advantage of by a broken, corrupt system. Honestly, you can write to Sears all you want, but you should write a letter to your elected 'representatives,' these issues are fed by apathy and ignorance.
All this being said, I love Saturday mornings, I'm going to go fix some stuff with my quality tools!
That sounds exactly right to me.
Plus, the secondary market for used tools has really opened up with channels like eBay, and there's only so many socket sets you need in the US. It's kind of like the firearms industry, they last a long time and tend not to get thrown away.
Amateur car mechanics is obviously a dying hobby and the buy new vs fix decision is heavily skewed towards new products anymore.
One thing that's cool about growing older in an internet era is that you get to own nice stuff. 40 years ago, I'd have had 100% Craftsman. Now, I get to own all kinds of premium German, used Snap-on, and the like, but I suspect I'll be a member of the last generation to do so.
osborn.ozzy
Banned
Do you think they will keep the evolv line? or get rid of it?
jzt
Well-known member
Disable your sig please, it is in the settings of tapatalk.
I understand that there is a freedom of speech, but "Go **** yourself" in the signature is a bit over the line. This a website full of grown men.
ncautoshop
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2011
- Messages
- 252
Seems to me we've asked for it. The majority of folks buy the cheapest thing possible with little regard to quality. I use my tools daily and expect them to handle some abuse. If we're shopping at walmart and other big box stores instead of locally owned and operated companies we are obviously telling them that's what we want.
I know the majority of this board isn't the problem but if we keep sending money out of town its only going to get worse.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
I know the majority of this board isn't the problem but if we keep sending money out of town its only going to get worse.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
mrbreezeet1
Banned
all I can tell you is don't read it if you don't like it.
No one forced you to read the thread, and the 0P is new here, so forgive him for wanting to kick it around a little.
mrbreezeet1
Banned
OP
FordExplorer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2012
- Messages
- 76
I can also pretty much guarantee that the Facebook page is real since I found a link to it on the Craftsman website.
RedFordTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 921
Im not going to spend a dime on Non-USA sourced Craftsman tools. If I wanted imported junk I'd buy The Kobalt Taiwan from Lowes. Theres a guy in another thread posting a 10 piece 1/4'' drive for $4.97. Why would I drive past Lowes and their Usually-on-sale Taiwan tools to Go to Sears and their Higher priced Chinese tools.
I go to sears to buy USA made tools. If theyre not going to sell USA made Craftsman tools, then Im not going to give them my money. Period.
I go to sears to buy USA made tools. If theyre not going to sell USA made Craftsman tools, then Im not going to give them my money. Period.
woody 73
Well-known member
With my power gone for the last week I went to sears just to sit in the air-conditioning and I will tell you the place was dead for lack of customers.
Not to rag on sears but maybe they need to rethink their selling strategy in order to bring in more people. Baby steps sounds like a start but it might be a bit late in the game!
Not to rag on sears but maybe they need to rethink their selling strategy in order to bring in more people. Baby steps sounds like a start but it might be a bit late in the game!
TwoInch
Well-known member
after scrolling way down the page, i was more convinced it was real. although it still seems amateur, and about on par with the real sears website....
nucklebuster
Active member
I think Sears goose is proverbially cooked. Recently went out to exchange some c-man sockets that I ordered because the size engraving was non-existent. Apparently Sears thought it would be a great marketing idea to shrink their entire socket display down to 4 hanging racks... (insert Guinness guys shouting "BRILLIANT" here) No longer are there 12 pt and 6 pt options for every size, and good luck finding more than 1 socket per facing. In addition, sockets available in sets are not available in eaches, meaning you get to wait 4-6 weeks for replacement via mail...what used to be a painless exchange is quite the PITA. Lowes no questions asked replacement is much easier, and they've always had plenty of the item to guarantee replacement of broken product... anywho, I've been lurking for a while and figured I'd finally chime in. You all offer great insight, I appreciate the wealth of experience on this site!
EOC_Jason
Well-known member
I myself have wondered how the local Sears has managed to stay in business these past few years. The place is ALWAYS empty when I go in there! Our store the selection has stayed pretty much the same. Unless there is some super spectacular deal / sale that I see in the store ad, I usually don't end up buying any tools just because. I typically end up going to the Sears because it is closer than the Home Depot / Lowes, and when all I need is a couple bolts or something small I can't justifying driving the extra miles for something that might cost a few pennies less at the bigger stores.
Dan in Pasadena
Well-known member
I worked for Sears for 6-1/2 years in high school and college. I was in the paint, wallpaper, air compressors section. This was 1970-77+/-
In those years Sears OWNED a huge share of the retail paint market. They lost it all. They OWNED the retail tool market too, lost it all. They OWNED the catalog business for a huge segment of the country - they couldn't see their hand in front of their face (the coming of the internet & electronic marketing) - AND? They lost it. I was once proud to work for them even as a kid. Now, I literally can't tell you when was the last time I was in a Sears. Sad
My opinion? A retailer (Sears?) that launched a huge marketing campaign pledging to sell ONLY American made goods whenever possible MIGHT clean up.
In those years Sears OWNED a huge share of the retail paint market. They lost it all. They OWNED the retail tool market too, lost it all. They OWNED the catalog business for a huge segment of the country - they couldn't see their hand in front of their face (the coming of the internet & electronic marketing) - AND? They lost it. I was once proud to work for them even as a kid. Now, I literally can't tell you when was the last time I was in a Sears. Sad
My opinion? A retailer (Sears?) that launched a huge marketing campaign pledging to sell ONLY American made goods whenever possible MIGHT clean up.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
Even though I would prefer the Craftsman tool line to remain U.S. made, I would consider the new overseas Taiwan models. Let’s face it, the current Craftsman tool line has gone way down in quality over the last 10 years. Almost all of my craftsman tools are middle to early 80s vintage and the U.S. stuff today is about on par with the Chinese stuff. In 1998 I needed a 3/8 ratchet on a job and ran to sears and picked up a VM series ratchet. Latter I realized it had a plastic selector switch and was not the same as all my V series ratchets I have at home. In fact I would consider the quality of that ratchet to be worse then the HF ratchets of that time. They hade 48 teeth and a metal selector switch and were fairly smooth. They were made in Taiwan then and I still think they are today. Unfortunately, the newer HF ratchets made since around 2008 started to have plastic selector switches as well. Mrholeshot did a test on the older metal selector version and said it was a very good ratchet. In fact it pulled 220 Ft lbs which the craftsman K0Z ratchet he tested only did somewhere in the 80 Ft lb range. That is not very good for a current Craftsman U.S. made RP ratchet.
I remember all the crying when Lowes was getting rid of all the US made Danaher tools and everyone’s ******* was getting bunched up over it. Come to find out that all the Taiwan stuff that took there places was of better quality anyways. It had better chrome and a better feel to it and there ratchets were rated very high on GJ by people that bought them.
Anyways, I do not like Craftsman going to China at this time because the quality is just not there yet, but I would welcome a good Taiwan replacement like Lowes has instead of the current crappy U.S. Danaher made craftsman products which have been filtering into Sears over the last 10 to 15 years.
On a final note, I remember when tools made in Japan were the worst things on earth and now they are highly regarded. The Taiwan tools have made huge leaps in quality and I think it will also happen at some point with the Chinese. Also what will the 84% of you guys going to do when you force Sears out of business and your current warranties go away as well with them. It is all good valid points to think about…..
I remember all the crying when Lowes was getting rid of all the US made Danaher tools and everyone’s ******* was getting bunched up over it. Come to find out that all the Taiwan stuff that took there places was of better quality anyways. It had better chrome and a better feel to it and there ratchets were rated very high on GJ by people that bought them.
Anyways, I do not like Craftsman going to China at this time because the quality is just not there yet, but I would welcome a good Taiwan replacement like Lowes has instead of the current crappy U.S. Danaher made craftsman products which have been filtering into Sears over the last 10 to 15 years.
On a final note, I remember when tools made in Japan were the worst things on earth and now they are highly regarded. The Taiwan tools have made huge leaps in quality and I think it will also happen at some point with the Chinese. Also what will the 84% of you guys going to do when you force Sears out of business and your current warranties go away as well with them. It is all good valid points to think about…..
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
One last thing. After some careful thought, I voted yes because when sears is gone, my next option is Lowes or carquest. I hate doing mail order because all you get to see is a picture of the tool. I have not in 20 years dealt with tool trucks and I will not be chasing tool trucks around to buy tools or try to warranty tools. I also will not pay $120 dollars for a ratchet that should only cost $50........
Polski-Chevy
Well-known member
My local Sears took out the single sockets too, and replaced it with single sockets for the "Max Axess" line
Another pad
nucklebuster
Active member
When Sears doesn't have the item you want to warranty aren't they pretty much a mail order company? You're waiting 4-6 weeks for your replacement, and have no idea what condition the item will be in when you get it...
Three or four generations (since 1927) grew up with the slogan "Craftsman | America’s Most Trusted Tool Brand". It doesn’t sound nearly as convincing when you say: “Craftsman | China’s Most Trusted Tool Brand".
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
When Sears doesn't have the item you want to warranty aren't they pretty much a mail order company? You're waiting 4-6 weeks for your replacement, and have no idea what condition the item will be in when you get it...
I don't do mail order with sears. In fact they always have a replacement on shelf but the problem is the sockets made in the last 10 years are not as nice as the ones I have from the mid 80s. The last broken V ratchet that I happened to brake, sears had the rebuild kit for it. I will not exchange them for any non V series ratchets. If they quite haveing the rebuild kits for them. Then I will just get one off e-bay.
I had bought a rather large tool set from sears in 1980 that had all the sockets and wrenches while in high school. prior to that set it was just a mix match of different tools. The craftsman set was my first real tool set. There was one problem with that set. It had all the V series ratchets but the 1/2 was the real long ratchet and it did not include the standard size 1/2 inch ratchet. well in the late 80s, I broke the long one and found out sears did not make it anymore. I was almost **** out of luck because there was no rebuild kits for them back then but the manager came up with a good idea. He took a standard size ratchet and swapped the guts and warrantied the standard size ratchet instead. I was happy and I still have that ratchet today somewhat retired though.
Last edited:
NC-Fordguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 1,391
When Sears doesn't have the item you want to warranty aren't they pretty much a mail order company? You're waiting 4-6 weeks for your replacement, and have no idea what condition the item will be in when you get it...
Theres been a couple of times when I have warranteed tools at sears or have gotten the wrong(double) in a set I picked up and it was out of stock. I've Always had it my hands in less than a week when those situations arise
So what's the story with Sears selling S-K? There are a lot of S-K tool on the Sears web site now. So maybe their plan is to ***** the Craftsman brand out to the Chinese, since the majority of their customers (present company excluded), don't seem to give a ****, then carry S-K for their customers that want American Made quality. Loosing Craftsman to Chicom manufacture would not be so bad if the trade off is that now S-K will be readily available (non-mailorder) all over the place again. The downside of this is that I predict that Sears as a company will probably not last all that much longer....then where will we get our S-K?
mudflap
Well-known member
I hate to say this......... but i took my 4 yr old USA 1/2in RP ratchet to sears today for replacement (it was starting to auto-reverse) dreading the china replacement i figured i would get. To my surprise, the china replacement has better machine work, better chrome, runs smoother, and the details like lettering,etc are crisper. I don't know how it will hold up ( if a cheater pipe is required, its always the craftsman that gets it) but i think some of the china/taiwan stuff might be better than the stuff danaher USA was producing towards the end of their run with sears.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
There is also a guy on GJ that has a very arrogant user name and avatar that I get tired of seeing as well, but it is a public forum and if it is OK with the mods I guess there's nothing more to be said......
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
I have not seen any in store SK but would welcome it if it was. Also said earlier about a vintage line or even keeping a real pro line. I like that idea as well as long it is good quality U.S. made tools and not the crappy U.S. danaher product line that has filtered in over the last few years...
Please name names haha.
RangerDaleXp
Well-known member
RedFordTruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 921
X2
Losing Craftsman to the realm of Asian tools wouldnt be as bad if they would start Stocking S-K or Armstrong in the stores. I would buy em every time over the Chinese Craftsman.
supersteve
Well-known member
This would be agreeable to me, also.