Wall height (again)

[fwillison]

I know it's been discussed a lot, but I'm still conflicted. My auto shop is 44x60 with attic trusses creating a 14x60 second floor.
I've whittled it down to two options:

12'6" walls (12" studs with an extra top or bottom plate beyond the 3 standard)
or
14' 4 1/2" (14 ft studs with a bottom and two top plates).

I guess you can subtract a 1/2 inch for ceiling sheetrock.

After measuring my current restoration candidate cars, the tallest is only 5 ft. My lifts have a maximum rise of 72", so the car at full lifted height will be 11 ft off the ground. Plenty of clearance using the 12' 6" walls.

The advantage for this height will be a less imposing building, less stairs to the second floor, less expensive to build and heat/cool.
The advantage for the 14 ft height will primarily be for resale someday to someone who would value that height (eg. motorhomes, ?trailered cars).
I guess I could build a stand up mezzanine too, but don't really need it with the second level attic. Could also put in a big a$$ fan someday.

Can't really decide, but need to by tomorrow.
Let 'er rip.
If you are tired of the topic please just tune out.
Thanks!
Fred
Tulsa

 

[gpflepsen]

Are you building to a governing code? If so, a 10' wood framed wall may be you highest allowable. Just double check with your inspector.

See http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_6_sec002.htm TABLE R602.3(5) SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING OF WOOD STUDS

 

[fwillison]

Are you building to a governing code? If so, a 10' wood framed wall may be you highest allowable. Just double check with your inspector.

See http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_6_sec002.htm TABLE R602.3(5) SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING OF WOOD STUDS

Never heard of this??

 

[gpflepsen]

From the table, "Increases in unsupported height are permitted where justified by analysis".

If you're being inspected, just be sure. This is my interpretation of the 2009 IRC. Metal studs give more options.

 

[fwillison]

This is a big deal, thanks for the heads up

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If the building will be big enough to get a travel trailer or motor home in, make it tall enough. As you noted, it could be the deciding factor on resale some day.

Just make sure you don't have any height restrictions you have to deal with. Many localities do have limits for residential buildings, and the systems for measuring are usually strange and not anything you might expect. Many times the height is specified to a point half way between the eave and peak height, rather than actual height, or measured from grade level, not from floor level, etc. Make sure you understand the rules if there are any.

Charles

 

[gpflepsen]

This is a big deal, thanks for the heads up

This was a concern I had, and I am using 10' stick framed walls and scissor trusses to get the required overhead inside. Another option is to build the 10' wall on a knee-high (4') concrete wall. You'd have a 14' wall then. And the aesthetics of the concrete wall too.

Please let us know how you fare with framing a taller wall, if allowed.

 

[Danver]

If the building will be big enough to get a travel trailer or motor home in, make it tall enough. As you noted, it could be the deciding factor on resale some day.

Just make sure you don't have any height restrictions you have to deal with. Many localities do have limits for residential buildings, and the systems for measuring are usually strange and not anything you might expect. Many times the height is specified to a point half way between the eave and peak height, rather than actual height, or measured from grade level, not from floor level, etc. Make sure you understand the rules if there are any.

Charles

I'm just in the idea stage for a future garage build and already met an unwelcome restriction that has me quite concerned. I never did any research when I bought my house four years ago but being in a small township where I had seen many garages of around the size I would eventually like to have I never figured to run into any problems unless I tried to put up something crazy.

A few weeks ago I stopped in to the township hall to pay my summer taxes and as an afterthought I asked about information as to what I was allowed to put up as far as a garage, thinking more in terms of setbacks and such and I was given a sheet with the information on it. I didn't look at it for a few days but then was surprised to see how limited I really might be. For properties less than 1 acre (which mine is) I am limited to 1300 square feet. That surprised me but isn't too big of a deal because I can live within that. But then they list a maximum height of 14'. That has me scared. I don't know how that is measured yet. There is a footnote on the sheet I have that gives where to look for how height is defined but I haven't followed up on that yet. If it is to the peak I am screwed. If it is to the midpoint between the eve and peak that will be a little better but still probably eliminates what I had hoped to build.

I wanted to have the option of a full-size hoist but I can't imagine any configuration with a 14' peak height that would allow that. Even with the mid-point measurement I'm not sure how feasible that is. No matter how it is measured I'm sure that 14' limits how wide the garage can be and still allow for enough pitch in a high snow area (upper peninsula of michigan).

Do I have any decent options with the 14' height limitation?

 

[bczygan]

I'm just in the idea stage for a future garage build and already met an unwelcome restriction that has me quite concerned. I never did any research when I bought my house four years ago but being in a small township where I had seen many garages of around the size I would eventually like to have I never figured to run into any problems unless I tried to put up something crazy.

A few weeks ago I stopped in to the township hall to pay my summer taxes and as an afterthought I asked about information as to what I was allowed to put up as far as a garage, thinking more in terms of setbacks and such and I was given a sheet with the information on it. I didn't look at it for a few days but then was surprised to see how limited I really might be. For properties less than 1 acre (which mine is) I am limited to 1300 square feet. That surprised me but isn't too big of a deal because I can live within that. But then they list a maximum height of 14'. That has me scared. I don't know how that is measured yet. There is a footnote on the sheet I have that gives where to look for how height is defined but I haven't followed up on that yet. If it is to the peak I am screwed. If it is to the midpoint between the eve and peak that will be a little better but still probably eliminates what I had hoped to build.

I wanted to have the option of a full-size hoist but I can't imagine any configuration with a 14' peak height that would allow that. Even with the mid-point measurement I'm not sure how feasible that is. No matter how it is measured I'm sure that 14' limits how wide the garage can be and still allow for enough pitch in a high snow area (upper peninsula of michigan).

Do I have any decent options with the 14' height limitation?

Flat roof works.

Hang a mansard down from it for looks.

Use steel trusses for shallow depth or wood flat trusses if they will give the ceiling height needed.

 

[fwillison]

This was a concern I had, and I am using 10' stick framed walls and scissor trusses to get the required overhead inside. Another option is to build the 10' wall on a knee-high (4') concrete wall. You'd have a 14' wall then. And the aesthetics of the concrete wall too.

Please let us know how you fare with framing a taller wall, if allowed.

In thinking about it last night, I also thought about a stem wall below. 2-4 feet plus a 10 ft stud wall on top would still get me to 12-14 ft.

My concrete slab on perimeter footings is already poured.

Can a concrete stem wall be placed after the slab has already been done?
Alternatively, can I use a block wall?

Fred

 

[fwillison]

My GC called and said he checked with the county inspector and was told 12 ft walls would be "no problem"
So that's odd, because I am subject to IRC 2009 prescriptive code given that I am building this to qualify as a residence due to Zoning requirments.
I'm paranoid about proceeding with the build if the inspector has a change of mind.

Fred

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I guess you can subtract a 1/2 inch for ceiling sheetrock.

I think this is a regional thing, but you have to subtract a 1.25" for the ceiling.. every ceiling I've seen done is "strapped" 16" OC. .75" Wood Strapping + 1/2" Sheetrock.

 

[kbs2244]

There is a difference between building a “residence” and building an “out building” in a residential zoned area.

 

[Riley]

I'd personally be shocked if there was a "change of mind".

Fortunately, we have not yet evolved to the utopian paradise in Tulsa, where rules mean only what they want them to mean. If they OK they will stand by it.

 

[fwillison]

I'd personally be shocked if there was a "change of mind".

Fortunately, we have not yet evolved to the utopian paradise in Tulsa, where rules mean only what they want them to mean. If they OK they will stand by it.

You would think so. However, I've run into bad information more than once in this project.
For example, the permit office refused to give me a permit for a pole barn/post frame construction building as planned. I ended up redesigning using a full perimeter footing that they said I needed in order to get the permit (based on IRC 2009 referenced by the permit office).
Then when the inspector came to do the plumbing rough inspection, he said that was wrong and I only needed a footing around the finished space (20x20 room), not the whole building(44x60). A little late to find that out, unfortunately.
That one cost me thousands of dollars already.

Fred

 

[brownbagg]

my little toyota truck is 12'6 for me to walk under and I am only 5'5. I would go at least 14 feet, you going have lights hanging down, maybe a ceiling fan

 

[fwillison]

Talked to inspector and a local engineer. No one seems to think the 12 ft walls will be any problem, despite what the code seems to say. Very hard to figure. I gave the go ahead to frame the walls with 12 ft studs today.

Fred

 

[graecole]

I have a place on Vancouver Island and so am subject to BC code. The building inspector has commented on my proposed 16' stud walls saying that they are too high for Part 9 of the code and will need an engineer. I interpret this to mean that they are above the height given in Part 9 but will be OK if an engineer can produce calculations to demonstrate they are strong enough for the given local wind loads etc. I spoke to a truss company who also do pre-fabbed stud walls and they said it should not be a problem. This is my first post and I have gained loads of good ideas for my 60 x 40 x 16' shop. Has anyone ever thought about aircraft hangar doors? I work up in Alaska and loads of folk have their own planes and these doors are common.

Grahamwww.bifold.com

 

[KPSquared]

My father in law has big bi-folds on his shops. They are awesome but crazy expensive. . .

 

[graecole]

KP - I got a quote and they are not too bad compared with my other option of two steel roller shutter doors, especially if you want electric openers. That said the quote is just the beginning. It seems like you have to do a lot of bracing and strengthening around the trusses to resist the horizontal loads when the door is fully open.
Anyway, MUCH more interesting is your project. Awesome photos and it gives me ideas. Most important at the moment is to make sure I get all the necessary pipes etc. allowed for before pouring the slab and foundations. So, how does that sump of yours work? Is it to collect oil from your trucks. Then what? do you pump it out?
Graham

 

[KPSquared]

The sump is actually to collect sewage from upstairs bathroom before being pumped to the septic tank.

The oil collection thing would have been an awesome idea though!

 

[gpflepsen]

There is a difference between building a “residence” and building an “out building” in a residential zoned area.

And there is a difference in who and how you have to satisfy the local requirements.

I kid you not on this one... A coworker put up a 6x8 shed kit, the Rubbermaid kind you'd find at Menards or Lowes. He needed a permit because he had to have it inspected for satisfying setback requirements. He also had to anchor it down with ground augers; inspected too. He's in the city and I'm rural.

My building permit would've required ground insulation if I said it would be heated due to efficiency requirements.

It's a messed up world...

 

[fwillison]

And there is a difference in who and how you have to satisfy the local requirements.

I kid you not on this one... A coworker put up a 6x8 shed kit, the Rubbermaid kind you'd find at Menards or Lowes. He needed a permit because he had to have it inspected for satisfying setback requirements. He also had to anchor it down with ground augers; inspected too. He's in the city and I'm rural.

My building permit would've required ground insulation if I said it would be heated due to efficiency requirements.

It's a messed up world...

I agree. The problem is the politics of power. Take a good idea (requiring inspection of construction projects for safety) and then put power in the hands of local building permit offices and inspectors to make your life miserable or easy if they so choose. The result is a very big problem for a lot of people. But it's always for your own good...