Wall weight, tilted 90 degrees into place?

[WI/MI Border]

Well, the Pooper Bowl ***** I was hoping the halftime entertainment would make up for that! Not!

So I'm back thinking about my garage build and hoping someone can help calculate the approximate lifting weight of an 8' - 2x6 x 14' wall sheathed with 7/16 OSB. I've found data on wall and sheathing, 3.4999 psf and 1.5 psf. So I'm coming up with 112 sq ft which calculates to about 560 lbs.

The question is... with the bottom plate sitting on the treated 2x6, pivoting 90 degrees, what is the approximate load on the cable? Also consider one four inch pulley reducing the load as well.

 

[jblnut]

Pulling straight up ? At an angle of some kind ? With something from ground level ? All will matter as much as the actual weight of the materials.

I helped stand up 8’x16’ wall sections with OSB and insulation a few years back at a buddies place. There were three of us and it wasn’t too bad. We had 16’ 2x4’s attached about 10’ up the wall that we used to keep it from tipping once it was stood up. Two people walked them out to pre driven in the ground stakes so all we had to do was plumb the wall, attach to the concrete and screw the supporting 2x4’s to the stakes in the ground.

I offered to bring my telehandler over and he said “nope, we can get it by hand”. Well okay.

So 3 guys lifting and 2 walking the supports out. 5 guys total.

 

[PCustoms]

The question is... with the bottom plate sitting on the treated 2x6, pivoting 90 degrees, what is the approximate load on the cable? Also consider one four inch pulley reducing the load as well.

What's it matter?

Sure, it can all be calculated. But a couple guys and/or a wall jack and you'll be done. One guy with a good rope and a lift. Etc.

 

[WI/MI Border]

Lifting by myself with extra set of eyeballs on things from my 81 yo and 75 yo neighbors.

Pivots 90 degrees from floor. Actually, on risers the same height as two block stem wall. Cable winch mounted on a 2x pole apparatus, 4" pulley at 13' on 2x pole, cable securely attached to top plate of wall. The 2X pole pivots/hinges on floor and follows the wall up 90 degrees. Winch is about 30" above floor keeping operator out of the horizontal footprint of the wall.

Nope, I will not use "wall jacks" (Proctor) for the obvious reason that this photo should show... What could go wrong???


Working on this design...

 

[carlaisle]

Well, an 8' long 2x6 weighs 14.4375 lbs and for a 14' wall you need about 11 of them. A 14' 2x6 weighs in at 25.25 lbs and you'll need 2 of those if you use a double top plate. A single pressure treated 2x6 14' long weighs in at 42.75 lbs. A 4' x 8' sheet of 7/16" OSB weighs in at 45 even and you'll need 3 and a half of them. That totals 410 lbs without any fasteners and assuming kiln dried SPF lumber and no additional framing for headers, windows, doors, etc.

Something to keep in mind with a winch is they are typically rated for rolling loads, not overhead lifting. That's an entirely different specification.

 

[WI/MI Border]

What's it matter?
...

Because it matters to me. You'll have to forgive me but I am a rookie having only built one garage and an addition to our first home; more than forty years ago. I made lots of mistakes.

Those mistakes were mostly my fault. However, the young buck's that I had helping me spent the days arguing about how to proceed and then trying to prove, quickly, often unsafely, that their way is better.

So yes, it matters plenty.

 

[WI/MI Border]

Well, an 8' long 2x6 weighs 14.4375 lbs and for a 14' wall you need about 11 of them. A 14' 2x6 weighs in at 25.25 lbs and you'll need 2 of those if you use a double top plate. A single pressure treated 2x6 14' long weighs in at 42.75 lbs. A 4' x 8' sheet of 7/16" OSB weighs in at 45 even and you'll need 3 and a half of them. That totals 410 lbs without any fasteners and assuming kiln dried SPF lumber and no additional framing for headers, windows, doors, etc.

Something to keep in mind with a winch is they are typically rated for rolling loads, not overhead lifting. That's an entirely different specification.

Thanks carlaisle! That's information I can use. I need to make myself confident that the plan will work. A nervous rookie is not what I want to be. Being a rookie is enough : )

I am aware of the loading limitations of the winch. I'm hoping to find information about how rolling load ratings measure up to lifting load ratings. I'll also be figuring out how I can add an additional 4" pulley. Though I realize it will still be 500+ lbs suspended within inches of a human.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you are concerned about weight and run the OSB horizontal, you should be able to get away with just one course across the bottom of the wall to keep it from racking.

 

[firebirdparts]

I didn't calculate the wall weight, but in any case your winch is plenty big enough (they don't make one small enough for this job) and the geometry is a little strange. As your pole leans over, of course there will be friction with the wall, a lot at first. You'll just have to try it and see how it goes.

 

[Innovate1]

The pulley where you have it doesn't reduce the load. It only changes the direction of it. The highest load is when you are initially lifting the top of the wall off the floor which looks to be nearly straight up. If it's straight up it would be half of the total weight of the wall. If your figure of 560 lbs is reasonably accurate, and some others have come up with similar numbers, then that's about 280 lbs lift. It should be easy enough. If you want to add a pulley to cut that in half you need to loop the cable down from the top pulley, through a pulley attached to the wall top and then back up and anchor the end of the line at the top of your pole. One way to think about this is the both cables to the pulley at the wall top have about 140 lbs of tension and since there are two of them it totals to 280.

As firebirdparts notes there will be some friction but that will be minor if the pole is reasonably smooth- there won't be much pressure between the pole and the wall top. You will probably need to put a couple of guy ropes to resist the pole tipping toward the wall during the first part of the lift. I think I would make that pole from two pieces spaced apart at the bottom so it can't tip sideways. You also need some way to keep the bottom of the wall and bottom of pole from slipping away from each other. Those forces will be much lower than the lift force needed.

 

[WI/MI Border]

The pulley where you have it doesn't reduce the load. It only changes the direction of it. The highest load is when you are initially lifting the top of the wall off the floor which looks to be nearly straight up. If it's straight up it would be half of the total weight of the wall. If your figure of 560 lbs is reasonably accurate, and some others have come up with similar numbers, then that's about 280 lbs lift. It should be easy enough. If you want to add a pulley to cut that in half you need to loop the cable down from the top pulley, through a pulley attached to the wall top and then back up and anchor the end of the line at the top of your pole. One way to think about this is the both cables to the pulley at the wall top have about 140 lbs of tension and since there are two of them it totals to 280.

The 4" pulley I just bought, from Harbor Freight, is going to be disassembled and mounted inside the frame on the top of the lifting pole. I think it would be easy to rig up another attachment point on that pole for another pulley. But, to keep the cable from binding should I have two pulleys on the top? One for initial direction change and another to change that again before it continues to the wall. I'm not sure all this is really necessary but I might still do three pulleys just because (It's only another $30 to add two pulleys).

The timber pole, the hinge at its foot and the cable hooks will still all be carrying the total weight of the lift. I want to make sure all those areas are fastened well to eliminate them as a weak link.

Does the distance between the two pulleys matter? I only have 31' of cable on the winch and I'm already using 23' in my original design. The sheave part is aluminum which will wear with the steel cable but I will only be doing eight lifts if everything goes OK.

As firebirdparts notes there will be some friction but that will be minor if the pole is reasonably smooth- there won't be much pressure between the pole and the wall top. You will probably need to put a couple of guy ropes to resist the pole tipping toward the wall during the first part of the lift. I think I would make that pole from two pieces spaced apart at the bottom so it can't tip sideways. You also need some way to keep the bottom of the wall and bottom of pole from slipping away from each other. Those forces will be much lower than the lift force needed.

I'm thinking an A-frame design with the bottom spread being about 2' and a plywood stiffener about three feet up to mount the winch. I want to mount the winch as low as possible and still be comfortable cranking it. The higher it is mounted the more the winch will be in the footprint of the wall before lifting. And comfortable means I am in a position while cranking that if something goes wrong I will be able to be out of the way of the lifting pole as it flies back away from the wall!

Of course my "helpers", will be there only to be a couple extra sets of eyeballs on the process and possibly to engage supports halfway up in case something needs to be reset. They are 75 and 81 years old. They're not going to get into harms way.

A rough draft of the design...

 

[PCustoms]

Have you seen this?

 

[WI/MI Border]

Have you seen this?

Thanks.

I've seen some homemade versions of lifts like that but that design has some nice features like the positive stops at the top to keep the wall from continuing past vertical. That's something I might be able to figure out for my lift poles with a little geometry math, though I was never good at math. I'll probably figure out that stop and modify the lift pole after my first lift.

I'm going to build a sheathing and shingle lift with a 110v hoist to do my roofing lifts. Maybe I'll just pull the trigger on a hoist and forget the boat winch. The "pulling capacity" vs "lifting capacity" still concerns me a bit.

Vevor has a nice hoist kit for around a hundred bucks. I've ordered quite a few tools from them over the past couple years and have almost always been impressed.
Vevor 880# Hoist

 

[mike93lx]

If the cable snaps or the winch fails, that a frame is going to get pushed back with great vigor as the wall falls.

I dont think the risk is significant, but if you are completely opposed to wall jacks, then you should mitigate that risk as well

Worrying about a proven item such as wall jacks but looking at vevor hoists and harbor freight pullies feels odd

 

[WI/MI Border]

Yep, agree. I just pulled the trigger on a 110v 880 lb hoist with 14' control cable to be able to stand back from that possibility.

I wanted a hoist for the garage as well as a shingle/sheathing lift "ladder" so I'm going to modify the lift pole with the hoist rather than the boat winch. That will hopefully ease my concerns of "pulling capacity" vs "lifting capacity" of the boat winch.

 

[WI/MI Border]

...
Worrying about a proven item such as wall jacks but looking at vevor hoists and harbor freight pullies feels odd

Good point. Though I think both items are sufficient quality to be used safely.

Did you see my previous photo of the guy on a ladder using proctor jacks? What could possibly go wrong? You aren't arguing that that method; on a ladder, under the wall, while jacking the wall up a 2x4 piece of SPF is devoid of risk?

 

[mike93lx]

Good point. Though I think both items are sufficient quality to be used safely.

Did you see my previous photo of the guy on a ladder using proctor jacks? What could possibly go wrong? You aren't arguing that that method; on a ladder, under the wall, while jacking the wall up a 2x4 piece of SPF is devoid of risk?

I didn't say anything of the sort. Like any lift, there are risks and ways to mitigate. It wouldn't be hard to use angle braces to give bracing points along the lift. You can also run a pair of them, offering backup, or start the lift and then place sturdy saw horses under neath so the wall can't fall all the way back to the floor, or screw stop blocks along the lifting pole so that the jack can't slide. Multiple options.

I think you are making this more complicated than necessary and introducing more failure points, although you are theoretically keeping yourself out of the line of fire.

 

[WI/MI Border]

...

I think you are making this more complicated than necessary and introducing more failure points, although you are theoretically keeping yourself out of the line of fire.

My apologies! I respect your opinion/experience. I'm thinking out loud (posting thoughts). Maybe I'm thinking too much but that is the way I was trained. To think about each and every task and ask "What could go wrong?".

Not sure about this part... "and introducing more failure points,...". Maybe you could give me an example of what you mean?

 

[whateg01]

...

Nope, I will not use "wall jacks" (Proctor) for the obvious reason that this photo should show... What could go wrong???

Didn't we cover this in your other thread? Pretty sure it was your thread discussing the risers. Also, as I'm pretty sure was discussed there, there's nothing wrong with wall jacks if used correctly. There's nothing obvious in your picture that shows why they shouldn't be used.

When I built houses, we used this style of wall Jack. Looks similar to what you are constructing.

 

[mike93lx]

My apologies! I respect your opinion/experience. I'm thinking out loud (posting thoughts). Maybe I'm thinking too much but that is the way I was trained. To think about each and every task and ask "What could go wrong?".

Not sure about this part... "and introducing more failure points,...". Maybe you could give me an example of what you mean?

A hoist, pulleys, cable, hook/anchor are what come to mind.

Not to mention cheap, no name stuff for those items. I am pretty risk conscious, but it will be a cold day in hell when I trust something from vevor for my safety

 

[WI/MI Border]

Didn't we cover this in your other thread? Pretty sure it was your thread discussing the risers. Also, as I'm pretty sure was discussed there, there's nothing wrong with wall jacks if used correctly. There's nothing obvious in your picture that shows why they shouldn't be used.

Sure, I covered it once or twice before. New post, new contributors. This post started out asking for verification of wall lift weight. Every topic leads to other topics when people offer suggestions (no matter the forum). I'll try to not address those suggestions in the future. I'm satisfied with the answers I've gotten so I'll move on.

As far as the wall jack photo... I stand corrected. If you don't see the risk I see then maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe.

 

[Innovate1]

The 4" pulley I just bought, from Harbor Freight, is going to be disassembled and mounted inside the frame on the top of the lifting pole. I think it would be easy to rig up another attachment point on that pole for another pulley. But, to keep the cable from binding should I have two pulleys on the top? One for initial direction change and another to change that again before it continues to the wall. I'm not sure all this is really necessary but I might still do three pulleys just because (It's only another $30 to add two pulleys).

The timber pole, the hinge at its foot and the cable hooks will still all be carrying the total weight of the lift. I want to make sure all those areas are fastened well to eliminate them as a weak link.

Does the distance between the two pulleys matter? I only have 31' of cable on the winch and I'm already using 23' in my original design. The sheave part is aluminum which will wear with the steel cable but I will only be doing eight lifts if everything goes OK.


I'm thinking an A-frame design with the bottom spread being about 2' and a plywood stiffener about three feet up to mount the winch. I want to mount the winch as low as possible and still be comfortable cranking it. The higher it is mounted the more the winch will be in the footprint of the wall before lifting. And comfortable means I am in a position while cranking that if something goes wrong I will be able to be out of the way of the lifting pole as it flies back away from the wall!

Of course my "helpers", will be there only to be a couple extra sets of eyeballs on the process and possibly to engage supports halfway up in case something needs to be reset. They are 75 and 81 years old. They're not going to get into harms way.

A rough draft of the design...

Not at all sure why you show 3 pulleys at the top of your A frame. If you want to get more mechanical advantage just wrapping cable around several pulleys that can't more relative to each other isn't going to do that. But for the weight you have it isn't needed. And I don't see anywhere you should have binding issues. I would just use a short length of chain and hang the pulley from that rather than taking the pulley apart - you are likely to bend the pulley pin if you move the pulley supporting frame apart such as using the A frame sides. You need to make sure whatever you mount the winch to is solid - you saying plywood makes me nervous - it needs to be thick and firmly fastened to the A frame legs. Such as a 2x cross member with lag screws. The winch will have about 500 lbs of force trying to pull it off the mount.

 

[WI/MI Border]

Thanks. Good points. My drawing skills are suspect. There's only meant to be two pulleys, side by side at the apex of the lift pole structure. The third is down a couple feet. The idea was to half the force on the winch, but I am modifying that and using a lifting hoist instead. So maybe just the one pulley at the top. And yes, I'm still working on an attachment method for the pulley(s).

The hoist will be mounted on plywood. The ply base will be a solid timber and steel plate member for reinforcement between the lift pole legs.

Still working on ideas for securing the foot of the pole. I'll be on a concrete slab. I've had quite a few good suggestions for making that a strong point

 

[whateg01]

The third pulley you describe doesn't do anything to multiply the force. It just adds length to the cable.

 

[carcruse]

As I said in your other thread, make your wall jacks like mine and you will be fine. My heaviest wall was 13'x60', 2x6 studs, 2x6 top and bottom plates and 7/16 sheathing and I lifted it without a problem.

 

[jack stand]

With all these worries, (yes appropriate) have you thought about a 8' section or building it in place?
As mentioned before, run your sheathing horizontally and leave the 2nd course off. You could leave it all off as well squaring your wall with an 8' 2x4 temporarily.
Then stopping by the local high school football practice and tell them there's a couple of pizzas waiting for them might be an easy way out.

 

[mike93lx]

With all these worries, (yes appropriate) have you thought about a 8' section or building it in place?
As mentioned before, run your sheathing horizontally and leave the 2nd course off. You could leave it all off as well squaring your wall with an 8' 2x4 temporarily.
Then stopping by the local high school football practice and tell them there's a couple of pizzas waiting for them might be an easy way out.

I just stood 16' walls and left the sheathing off entirely. Aligned the bottom plate with marks made before hand, then square up in the air and braced with 2x4's. My walls were a little under 8',so I left the sheathing long and mounted a 2x4 as a cleat near the top to hang them. After nailing it all off, I cut the sheathing flush with a router. A little extra effort, but it made the lift really easy