Want to learn to weld

[MD11]

So as a weekend wrencher, I don't really need to weld often, but there are occasions when I do, even if it's just a small spot weld. I was thinking of getting a smaller entry level MIG welder from Miller or someone similar and learning how. My question is; can someone learn to weld from watching instructional video and playing around with scrap metal? Or is this something that you need to take in a classroom environment? Now lets be clear, I have no plans to become a professional welder, nor do I expect to make the perfect bead.. but I do want to be competent and safe.. any suggestions for starting out?

thanks

 

[sanddrag]

It would be best to have someone teach you the proper methods, but it really isn't as hard as it looks, and you can certainly teach yourself from reading guides and watching videos, then post pictures of some welds up here for us to offer feedback on. A lot of times you can tell what is wrong with your technique just by looking at the weld afterward.

 

[babzog]

I like the classroom setting (what I did this fall) since you can toss ideas around with others, get one-one instruction from a professional, get your beads critiqued and corrected right away. All of what sanddrag mentioned, but in realtime. Plus, you might get some free time to work on your own projects. I repaired some stainless strainers using the tig welder (burned one, saved one - 50% success on my first tig job, which was not an easy one).

I'm looking for a nice 200+A mig machine. I'm gonna keep my eyes open for auction sales or CL deals... quality new ones in that class are nearly $2k but good used ones can sometimes be found cheap. After reading and asking questions here, I'm not even tempted by the cheap PA / HF units.

 

[BerBer5985]

I went through the same thing you did. I search craigslist and other forums until I stumbled upon a nice Lincoln mig welder with cart and bottle and auto darkening helmet listed locally for around $450 and then I went to work on scrap. I've read just about everything on the Internet there is to read on mig welding and I've watched multiple videos. My neighbor is an autobody mechanic who happens to build dragsters and tube chassis and he was able to give me some pointers, but literally once you understand the concept and get the feel it's just practice practice practice. Any scrap metal I can find, I weld it and then I took on my first project of a jetski dolley and I've been told all the welds look good. Just start reading and watching videos and then take the plunge and buy a mig and then get to work. Practice makes perfect. I'd love to take a class and I'm sure I'd benefit from it, but no time or money to take one, but I don't believe it's necessary. It's like learning to play an instrument. You can take a class or you can teach yourself with a lot if research and practice.

 

[MD11]

good info all, I will just save up and try to get a machine and helmet and go from there..

 

[Steve from Socal]

I am going to reiterate the classroom experience, it is far easier to learn the right way first than to break bad habits. If you have never welded it is a good idea to have some formal instruction to get you on the right path, after you learn the mechanics then the practice will make sense. Like learning to fly; once you solo go tear up the pattern, but know the fundamental aspects of your goal. To become proficient you will need to practice but, make sure you are using the right technique and know what good penetration looks like.

Steve

 

[MD11]

I'm going to see if the local JC has a course I can audit or even take for credit.. I just hate to get committed to a semester and academics for a hobby.. Any suggestions in the Phoenix AZ area for a quicker / maybe cheaper route?

 

[Steve from Socal]

I don't know what is available in PHX but try some occupational schools, many have night classes with guys learning hobby skills.

Steve

 

[Justanoldguy]

Buy a welder.
Watch videos.
Practice heaps.
That's all you need to do.
If your welds are still **** after that,
someone will tell you for sure..

 

[rsanter]

how about finding someone near you to help you out a little
it will reduce the learning curve
on the other hand there are some good books out there that you should read either way so you know some of the basis of the process

bob

 

[rickairmedic]

MD11 as I recall your a Pilot . I would bet that someone on the maintenance crew is a proficient welder . I would check around the maintenance area to see if they have a welder on staff and see if maybe you could offer them a little something in return for some lessons . MIG welding honestly isnt hard to do but some good hands on training with a qualified welder will go along ways in the learning curve for you and the option I am giving will take up less of your time and teach you the basics that will help you get a good start on laying good beads .


Rick

 

[MD11]

MD11 as I recall your a Pilot . I would bet that someone on the maintenance crew is a proficient welder . I would check around the maintenance area to see if they have a welder on staff and see if maybe you could offer them a little something in return for some lessons . MIG welding honestly isnt hard to do but some good hands on training with a qualified welder will go along ways in the learning curve for you and the option I am giving will take up less of your time and teach you the basics that will help you get a good start on laying good beads .


Rick

Oh yes, some of the best and hardest welding I am told is Titanium.. I don't work for any particular airline is the problem, I contract mostly with ILFC and other leasing companies to test fly and ferry planes and the only contact with mx personnel I get is the day I come into the hangar for a test or ferry.

I have a neighbor who is also a former navy welder and he offered to have me come down when I get my gear and weld in his garage.

 

[MD11]

OK.. last request...

Recommend me a welder "Starter kit" for about $2K all told... mask, bottle, work surface, etc..

I would prefer new as I like to know how my tools have been maintained, and by getting new I can maintain them from the go.

I was looking at Lincoln Electric, Hobart and Miller... anything I need to know?

thanks

 

[rickairmedic]

Ok heres half your budget . This is A Miller 211 with a spoolgun ( great for welding aluminum ) and a cart only other thing you would need is a bottle of shielding gas or 2 to start welding . The 211 is great as you can use it on 120 and 240 volt circuits and it will weld pretty much anything you are ever going to want to weld in your garage . This auction also includes a cart for the welder ( although thats usually one of most folks first projects ) .


http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLERMATIC-211...dZViewItemQQptZBI_Welders?hash=item53de5e98c8


You may want 2 of these one for straight argon and one for C25 mix ( 75 % argon 25% co2 the straight argon is for welding aluminum.


http://cgi.ebay.com/80-CF-WELDING-C...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c520b91c2


Heres a great welding hood I have a Miller elite like this one only plain black and it has been a fantastic auto dark hood.


http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-ELITE-ST...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad549a71e



That pretty much Blows $1800 of your budget and you still have to get the bottles filled with Gas .


Rick

 

[MD11]

Thanks Rick.... How long do the smaller bottles last? 30min? what's the usual cost / source of refills? Home depot?

 

[rickairmedic]

MD I have an 80CF I have been welding with for close to a year ( granted I dont weld every day ) . I get my bottles at Tractor supply simply due to the fact they are open weekends and nights and most welding shops are open monday through friday 8-5 or so . The bottles I linked to were just for an idea of what to get . There should be welding supply shops in your area you could buy or rent bottles from. The rest of the stuff I recomended I would buy off of ebay like I linked to ( no taxes , no shipping and most likely cheaper than your local welding supply.)


Rick

 

[MD11]

perfect, thanks Rick... saving my pennies now!

 

[evintho]

I'd just like to second the classroom experience. I'm scheduled to begin a welding class the first of January at our local JC. 4 hours per night, once a week through April. I plan to build a frame and suspension pieces for my T roadster this summer. I can MIG along with most people. However, I want to learn the fundamentals, proper technique and the reasons why, as I'm sure the roadster isn't the last rod I'll be building!

 

[ourkid2000]

Believe it or not welding just isn't something that goes on around airplanes very often. Well, at least not anymore. Some specialized component shops probably get involved in it but at your typical line or even heavy maintenance operation, it's pretty rare.

Out of all the places I've worked, and that's quite a few now, I have only seen one welding job done and it was a very small repair on an exhaust of a Pratt & Whitney PT-6. This guy was called in special for this job and I never saw him again. He had special certifications, which most of us don't, that are required to do this particular job. The job in question was a very small hole in the exhaust.

All the same, many of the guys I work with can weld.....it's just not something they do at work.

 

[Beater]

My question is; can someone learn to weld from watching instructional video and playing around with scrap metal? Or is this something that you need to take in a classroom environment? Now lets be clear, I have no plans to become a professional welder, nor do I expect to make the perfect bead.. but I do want to be competent and safe.. any suggestions for starting out?

thanks

I came across a similar post on another board just a few minutes ago: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=845040

I think post number 5 in that thread is pretty good advice.

 

[Nostraquedeo]

I also took a course this semester. Last day of class is today. My dad taught me how to weld when I was younger. Luckily there haven't been too many welding jobs between then and now, so I didn't really have many bad habits to break. It was definately worth the $300 I spent on the class. It was once a week for 4-5 hours. It goes by pretty fast as a whole, and super fast each night. It's easy to get caught up in the lab welding and losing track of time. The equipment that I had to supply was all pretty cheap. About $150 investment in clothing and a helmet. I am thinking about taking the continuation of the class I took next semester.

 

[gorilla]

If you want learn to weld it is worth your time to take formal training class. You will not be taught someone bad habits and you will how things should be welded. It will give you a chance to chose what type of welder will best serve your needs. A small Mig welder is not always the best choice.

 

[shovel]

A small Lincoln, Hobart or Miller will serve you well. Get a 240 volt if possible and don't fool with the flux-cored wire. Get a bottle and go for it. If night classes are available, OK, but if not, do not let it deter you. You can get the hang of it watching videos and reading books. The best advice I can throw at you is to learn to watch the "puddle". You will learn how much metal is being pulled and puddled and how your filler metal is building the weld. This may not make sense right now, but it will when you start welding. Good luck and post some pics when you get started. There is a wealth of knowledge right here on this board.

 

[MD11]

All good advise and all duly noted... thanks fellas.

 

[mkdive]

did you get a setup yet? If so, how are the practice welds going?

 

[MD11]

no, this is going to cost me about $2K or so and I need to set aside the cash. Maybe sometime middle next year I think.

 

[p1mlb03]

About 2 months ago I bought a Miller 211 with spool gun, 2 90cf bottles (1 pure argon for Alum and 1 75 /25 for steel) a nice Miller auto dark shield for about $1700. I'm on my second spool of wire and still on the original bottle or Argon. I think a refill of 75/25 is around 35 or 40 bucks so it's not too bad. The Miller 211 is a nice machine, easy to use with the auto set function and very capable, plus it has the MVP feature (110 / 240). No regrets here at all. Miller Plasma Spectrum 375 on the list next.

 

[dugger10]

Hey here's another ideal that help me, I found a more muture(Old) retired welder. He taught me a lot of tricks and reduced the curve. Next you'll want a cutting torch or if you can afford it a plasma torch, wished I had one. Let someone teach you because there are a few very important safety items you need to know. But as said earlier pratice pratice will work well. I just weld for myself but have several friends that are certified welders, a great source because they can hook you up with lots of cheap if not free things like welding rods and leads. Weldings a lot of fun and has saved me lots of money doing my owen projects. If you can take a class I would, great knowledge to gain. Anyway good luck.

 

[tgreening]

no, this is going to cost me about $2K or so and I need to set aside the cash. Maybe sometime middle next year I think.

Don't let anybody talk you into anything Harbor Freight, or most anything on Ebay unless it says Miller (preferred), Lincoln (2nd) or Hobart.

The next thing is you can never ever EVER have too much of a welder. I just about guarantee that if you start welding and LIKE it, you will find a way to exceed the limits of the 211 that was recommended. That's not to say to not buy it, just be prepared for the day that you will outgrow it. I bought a Miller 252 for my personal use and love it, but there's been times I wished it was bigger.

 

[dugger10]

We always want something bigger. Sorry I couldn't resist

 

[tgreening]

We always want something bigger. Sorry I couldn't resist

I've got a handful of 3-phase, 1500 amp machines and there's been days I wished they were bigger so......huh, resist what?



Oooooooooh, I get it.

 

[crashbumper]

MD11,

I've got a Miller DVI and plenty of scrap material to play with. Industrial Metal Supply is only 5 minutes away from my house.

Feel free to contact me after the holidays if you'd like to come by and play with the welder.

I know many people (including myself) would recommend classroom experience, but sometimes it's nice to know what you're getting into before any major cash outlay.

Although i did not get formal training myself, I am looking to take night classes in the spring to get TIG certified, and learn more MIG techniques.

 

[ZRX61]

MD11 as I recall your a Pilot . I would bet that someone on the maintenance crew is a proficient welder . I would check around the maintenance area to see if they have a welder on staff and see if maybe you could offer them a little something in return for some lessons . Rick

BWUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

No aircraft maint guy is going to let a *pilot* anywhere near a welder.. we don't even loan them screwdrivers!


sorry, couldn't resist that

 

[CamarosRus]

I have the 220Volt 180 Amp MILLER with auto start........

Bought from AIR-GAS (check your area) which is bigest MILLER distrib

Including cart, bottle I spent around $850.

I'm using Harbor Freight auto darkening hood. More than sufficient
for weekend warrior amatuer welding.

 

[MD11]

BWUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

No aircraft maint guy is going to let a *pilot* anywhere near a welder.. we don't even loan them screwdrivers!


sorry, couldn't resist that

Ouch! (but admittedly deserved) ..

@Crashbumper, I might just do that... I'm trying to save enough over the next few months to get not only a decent Miller, but also the mask, jacket, gloves, and whole lot... I like to jump into stuff both feet first.

 

[bluesman2a]

First off, let me say, I'm a self-taught welder.

There are certain things that you REALLY need to see/hear a skilled welder do ONCE (or until you "get it"). For example, a lot of guys talk about how a weld SOUNDS as you're laying it down, mostly described as "frying bacon". Until you "hear" what a good bead/bad bead sounds like, this can be difficult. Once you start welding, you will wonder how you ever lived without it in your shop.

Second, let me also say, your $2K budget is excessive. If you can reasonably say you'll only be welding steel, then the price comes down dramatically. I do a LOT of wrenching/fabrication and have seldom needed to work aluminum. A good entry level welder would be like the Miller 211 or even a Hobart 187 (they are the same company).
http://store.cyberweld.com/mi211migwewi.html
http://store.cyberweld.com/hoha187migwe.html

Now if you WANT to buy the LAST MIG welder you'll need as a hobbiest, then you would step up to the Miller 252, in which case your budget is looking a bit more reasonable.
http://store.cyberweld.com/mil251witmet.html

Helmets: you only have one set of eyes. In this case I like to use the old Bell Helmet ad from back in the day: If you only have $10 eyes, then only use a $10 helmet. Get a quality autodarkening hood. I like my Miller, Hobart makes a cheaper version too.

Resources: I can't believe that we've come this far into it, and nobody has mentioned Weld Talk... It's the Garage Journal for welding...
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

 

[zmotorsports]

So as a weekend wrencher, I don't really need to weld often, but there are occasions when I do, even if it's just a small spot weld. I was thinking of getting a smaller entry level MIG welder from Miller or someone similar and learning how. My question is; can someone learn to weld from watching instructional video and playing around with scrap metal? Or is this something that you need to take in a classroom environment? Now lets be clear, I have no plans to become a professional welder, nor do I expect to make the perfect bead.. but I do want to be competent and safe.. any suggestions for starting out?

thanks

I am a self taught welder and I also carry AWSD1.1 weld certifications in various welding processes and materials. It can be done outside the classroom as I am proof of that, however, there is also something to be said about learning the theory in a classroom. There are a few excellent books out there that are directed at the hobby welder who wants to learn and improve his/her skill level and are written in terms a person can understand without needing a degree in physics.

There is a series of about three books titled 'Performance Welding" written by Richard Finch. He is also a self taught welder who now is a welding inspector for NASA and FAA. Very good and fast reading which teaches the theory as well as instructs the hands on.

You may check around your area as there are a ton of talented welders/fabricators who may be willing to teach. I had a couple of countermen at the local NAPA parts store hit me up last summer and ask if I would mind giving a small welding demonstration. I had four guys show up at my shop and they supplied the scrap metal and flipped my a few dollars for supplies. About a month later they said they had a few customers inquire and they had told them about my 'instructional seminar'. I put up a flyer at their store for ten people to conduct a small instructional lesson on a Saturday for $20.00/each. The flyer was filled the first day. I have done that two times since and although I would rather wrench/fabricate than teach I do enjoy sharing my knowledge (and learning from others) with people and if nothing else opening up an oportunitiy for them to experience something they otherwise probabley wouldn't have had a chance to.

Once you read a lot of the theory about fusion and puddle control the rest is practice, practice and more practice. Mike.

 

[WoodbyFabrication]

Everyone says that mig welding is the easiest. But truth to be known it is one of the hardest to do the right of way. It takes alot of time to really get the hang of it but just stick it out you will get it. Penitration is everything you don't want the weld just to sit on top of your piece. Sure anyone can pull the trigger and lay a bead, but just stick it out and play around with your settings and you will be welding like a pro.

 

[shadow images]

GCC has some classes. I would skip strait to a 220 unit. My miller all told was less than $2000 and is even cheaper if bought second hand. If your near the northwest side of Phoenix your more than welcome to come by and take a look for comparison sake. Lyle

 

[sberry]

Second, let me also say, your $2K budget is excessive. If you can reasonably say you'll only be welding steel, then the price comes down dramatically. I do a LOT of wrenching/fabrication and have seldom needed to work aluminum. A good entry level welder would be like the Miller 211 or even a Hobart 187 (they are the same company).

I will second this, its a steel world and I wouldn't set up for alum unless I had to. Once you get a machine you will find more uses that you ever thought of. The choices presented above are both winners, you could include the HH210 in that class if there was alum in the future. I am a big fan of Miller/Hobart, both owned by the same parent company. I have a half a dozen Lincolns too, fine machines but I like the way Miller does business, they have the best customer service anywhere bar none and a lot of others could learn from it.