ive been paying i think $9 for leviton GFI, distributor probably pays leviton 7 or so. There is alot to a GFCI, ever opened one? With the SMD pcb and all the contacts and other mechanical junk in there I dont see how you could ever make that in the USA and sell it for $7.
warm gfci
- Thread starter mrobins297aaa
- Start date
i dont know... one one hand i think they wouldnt put the resources into it because its relatively small compared to counterfit DVDs, Shoes, and handbags and there isnt an Apple or Nike giving pressure to do something.
on the other hand, UL is very proactive about preventing counterfit use of the UL mark and has had ICE sieze imported goods in the past.
I am curious as to what if anything I hear back from CPSC and / or UL.
One thing to consider is not only is it electrical and could catch fire, its a safety devices intended to prevent electric shock. The seller has sold over 1000 of these. Thats 1000 hazards that have been installed in peoples homes and places of business and those people should be notified.
StumpjumperDave
Well-known member
although most of their devices are made overseas...Leviton now makes a GFI that is American made... conforms to the NAFTA agreement
ishiboo
Well-known member
StumpjumperDave
Well-known member
i get what they say about not all product types listed and that applies to listing classes different than what we're talking about here. The file number on the box doesnt even exist -thats a definite no listing.
Aceman
Well-known member
I think if you were actually an electrician rather than an armchair quarterback you might have a better understanding of what really goes on. Just because you've had some bad experiences with some hack electricians down in California and you've wired a recep or two doesn't mean you know it all. I know I don't...
I'm sorry but it's you who cracks me up. Do you always use wild exaggerations to try and get your point across?
Who said MWBC's were unsafe? Me? I sure don't remember that...
MWBC's to save 10 cents on wire? Where? When?
GFCI's for 12 dollars? Maybe that's what you pay...
So you're in the .1 percent that would check. Do you honestly believe everyone else would do the same thing? Or do you think there's a possibility some teenage minimum wage employee who doesn't know anything about electrical would just keep resetting it? And think all the while that the outlet is probably bad because it keeps tripping?
I'm sorry but it's you who cracks me up. Do you always use wild exaggerations to try and get your point across?
Who said MWBC's were unsafe? Me? I sure don't remember that...
MWBC's to save 10 cents on wire? Where? When?
GFCI's for 12 dollars? Maybe that's what you pay...
So you're in the .1 percent that would check. Do you honestly believe everyone else would do the same thing? Or do you think there's a possibility some teenage minimum wage employee who doesn't know anything about electrical would just keep resetting it? And think all the while that the outlet is probably bad because it keeps tripping?
MrMark
Well-known member
Maybe you missed the part about the Leviton having the same temps. Pretty funny.
MrMark
Well-known member
MrMark
Well-known member
MrMark
Well-known member
You are one arrogant #@@#$. You have no idea what my qualifications are but I can assure you they are greater than yours. I wouldn't consider being an electrician an upgrade.
As for exaggerations, you mean about the guy walking all the way around his shop to reset a GFCI. That is really normal.
ishiboo
Well-known member
OMG! How did they do it before then?
the older ones were alot less complicated. measure current differential and trip. Then UL changed the standard (twice i think) which required cramming alot more functionality into the same package. Now it has to self test, trip and not reset if the GFI isnt functioning, detect L-N reversal and do some other stuff I cant remember at the moment.
MrMark
Well-known member
ishiboo
Well-known member
Let's not break out the cheap unsafe Chinese champagne yet, that could be a forgery. I have a friend @ UL who will check tomorrow.
ishiboo
Well-known member
Though the factory does have several UL listings which do show up on the website. And, they're still in business.
Aceman
Well-known member
That's surprising, considering I can't tell from your posts.
You're welcome to ignore me. It seems I'm going to get to use this forum feature very soon for the first time....
ishiboo
Well-known member
MrMark
Well-known member
I pretty much already do ignore you. I don't need some forum feature to just skip over your posts ACEMAN. I can't recall really one thing I've learned from your posts anyway, just a bunch of arrogance, and misguided attempts to put down those who are not the almighty ELECTRICIAN!
Unless you got that directly from UL I still call fake. It looks like they took someone else's certificate and photoshopped their info onto it including their non existent file number. It has some formatting differences from another verified real certificate for GFCI receptacle also issued in 2006
If you search WENZHOU YONGTAI ELECTRIC CO LTD in the UL database you find listings for some of their other products but nothing for GFI.
yeah it does
LEVITON MFG CO INC
Ground-fault Circuit Interrupters
KCXS.E48380
LEVITON MFG CO INC
Ground-fault Circuit Interrupters - Component
KCXS2.E48380
LEVITON MFG CO INC
Ground-fault Circuit Interrupters Certified for Canada
KCXS7.E48380
LEVITON MFG CO INC
Motor Controllers, Mechanically-operated and Solid-state
NMFT.E48380
ishiboo
Well-known member
and i was wondering if that was the case with this E256800 (i will concede the UL database can be wonky at times) but i ran it a bunch of times from 2 different computers in 2 different locations throughout today and it never comes up.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
mr mark I think your right, talk about copying I just came across some old instructions for a leviton gfci. they are exactly the same word for word of the one I have.......so who knows
Greatbear
Well-known member
I've noticed that just about all brands of GFCIs will get slightly warm even if there is no load on the circuit. There is a circuit in constant operation contained in the units that draws at most a couple watts. Even GFCI (and AFCI) breakers will get slightly warm for the same reason.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
Great research ishiboo, Can't wait to here that answer
MrMark
Well-known member
StumpjumperDave
Well-known member
ishiboo
Well-known member
mrb is right, the UL file number is invalid. It could have been valid at one time, but reissued when the company changed hands/names, went out of business, etc. Unfortunately the information about the file number is proprietary, anything like searching to see if it has a new file would not be public information.
My guy wasn't sure about the letter, there are several different formats in use over time and he's not in that area anyway. It's probably a fake, though they really may have gained certification (or a previous company) and made up the letter for display.
His guess is it's fake, they checked ETL and CSA and found no results either.
My guy wasn't sure about the letter, there are several different formats in use over time and he's not in that area anyway. It's probably a fake, though they really may have gained certification (or a previous company) and made up the letter for display.
His guess is it's fake, they checked ETL and CSA and found no results either.
Big N8
Well-known member
hhhmmmm LOL this as turned into a sh!t storm.
By issues I was more so looking at putting a gfci on the load side of a gfci. Like was stated they can trip and be a pita. But i was just giving a statement that anyone can take the way they wish. Most of the other members here seem to be electrical engineers to the fifth degree black belt style so I will let them fight this one out.
By issues I was more so looking at putting a gfci on the load side of a gfci. Like was stated they can trip and be a pita. But i was just giving a statement that anyone can take the way they wish. Most of the other members here seem to be electrical engineers to the fifth degree black belt style so I will let them fight this one out.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
I called the Melville divison of UL.
Talked with Steve Angeliu he's in the claims and counterfiet divison of UL.
He says that the document is valid and they were certified just as it says.
He also said the reason it doesn't come up on the UL web site is because this company has not subscribed to UL since Aug 2008. What that means is they can still sell what ever product they have manufacturered before Aug 2008 and they can continue to manufacturer the product but cannot use the UL label after Aug 2008. He says what I probably have is new old stock (product that was made before Aug 2008) he said his records show that the last shipment of the product was delivered to a port in Miami in Feb 2009. He said now if there still manufacturering the product and using the UL label thats illegical but he looked at some other stuff and said he doesn't think so and the product was certified so its probably ok.
I have his phone number incase anybody wants to talk to him.
Talked with Steve Angeliu he's in the claims and counterfiet divison of UL.
He says that the document is valid and they were certified just as it says.
He also said the reason it doesn't come up on the UL web site is because this company has not subscribed to UL since Aug 2008. What that means is they can still sell what ever product they have manufacturered before Aug 2008 and they can continue to manufacturer the product but cannot use the UL label after Aug 2008. He says what I probably have is new old stock (product that was made before Aug 2008) he said his records show that the last shipment of the product was delivered to a port in Miami in Feb 2009. He said now if there still manufacturering the product and using the UL label thats illegical but he looked at some other stuff and said he doesn't think so and the product was certified so its probably ok.
I have his phone number incase anybody wants to talk to him.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
There is no date on the plug but there is another small UL sticker on the plug itself that I just noticed while looking for the date it says "UL listed issue# B-450894"
The number on the box is not wrong e256800 is the right number for the certification.
The way he explained it to me is once the product is certified by UL the company pays a monthly fee for the continued use of the UL label.
mrb I'm still going to send it to you and you can let me know what you think.
The number on the box is not wrong e256800 is the right number for the certification.
The way he explained it to me is once the product is certified by UL the company pays a monthly fee for the continued use of the UL label.
mrb I'm still going to send it to you and you can let me know what you think.
I received the GFCI. I partially disassembled it and while not the best ive ever seen and I would never use one myself its not as terrible as I thought it would be. Poor solder and pcb assembly quality, the current carrying metal pieces seem a little thin, the relay contacts show some burn marks and pitting (considering this GFCI hasnt really seen any use that makes me question whatever metal theyre using for the contacts. Could they weld themselves together during a fault?)
I have not disassembled a GFCI receptacle in a long time, since before the change to UL standard. These have a coil that keeps the relay contacts pulled in, then releases during a fault. This coil is where the heat is coming from.
I have not disassembled a GFCI receptacle in a long time, since before the change to UL standard. These have a coil that keeps the relay contacts pulled in, then releases during a fault. This coil is where the heat is coming from.
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
OP
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
Great
Just for the sake of argument, let's say these devices are built in the same factory as one of the big brand devices.
The big brand companies all have legal representation in the US so, if something happens with their product, they'll be sued and held liable for the damage. Because of this, they use components (plastics, Varistors, Capacitors, relays, etc...) to make the devices that meet some minimal set of guidelines. Set forth by them and/or the safety standard. These components are obviously going to cost more money then a cheaper component that has not been evaluated by a third-party.
The factory building these components, grabs the design and starts building a low-cost copy of it. They use the cheapest plastics, the cheapest electrical components, the cheapest relays and so on. They look the same on the outside. The consumer will never know the difference. The company that is making them, doesn't care because they have no legal representation in this country, they are just keeping their factory lines moving.
This is the same with tools. I briefly worked for a tool supplier, that was getting more involved with importing their own brand of tools. The chinese suppliers gave us the option to have the tool look exactly like a name-brand copy and we could choose from several different levels of "internals", ranging from use it once and throw it in the trash, to an exact copy of the same name-brand.