WARNING: DO NOT BUY IRONITE Coatings!!!

[Oldbroncogarage]

Stay away from Ironite! The performance has been poor and the customer service has been even worse!

Please see the thread below, read my last entry!

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12503

 

[Mlynch]

All the more reason the people on this forum should get familiar with data sheets... every company will tell you their coating is superior, in fact i have yet to come across a company that advertises their product as "just ok". They all want to tell you its the best stuff since sliced bread!

Oldbroncogarage, I am very sorry to see this happening to you. When it comes time to redoe your floor we will try to help you out as much as we can here on the forum. Ideally you should remove the coating as opposed to coating over and this will likely end up being more expensive and laborious than just doing it with a good product in the first place. It is a lesson many learn the hard way because other than the bs marketing people dont know how to differentiate between products.

 

[bobren4]

What a nightmare. Sorry to hear about that.

 

[ron in sc]

The performance has been poor and the customer service has been even worse!

Sorry about your predicament.

Someone else on the board had I serious problem with I think a substandard epoxy and he had to remove it.

I believe he used Takeoff 2000. That is a product that is recommended for removal by my epoxy contractor who also has an engineering degree. You may want to find out more about that product, it is used remove more than just epoxy.

 

[Mlynch]

the takeoff stuff while working is a PITA... by the time you factor in the cost of the takeoff and the pain you will ahve screwing with it you are better off bringing in a contractor with grinding equipment at a buck a square foot... (it should be less for your large amount of square footage)

Grinding will serve two purposes profileing the concrete and removing old epoxy...

 

[Andy S]

What exactly happened to the coating?

 

[Mlynch]

check his link Andy there are pictures... just tire marks mostly but he also said it scratched up, left rust marks, and performed poorly with a welder at 6 feet.

 

[ron in sc]

you are better off bringing in a contractor with grinding equipment at a buck a square foot

Have you ever personally used Takeoff 2000 to remove a 100% solids epoxy floor?

I asked the question about how to remove epoxy for another forum member. I asked my contractor why he could not just remove it with one of his shotblasting machines. The one he use to do my concrete was a ride on type that was powered with propane. He said shotblasting was not the way and it had to be done chemically. I was suprised but that's all he does; service industies that use epoxy coatings.

 

[Mlynch]

i dont use shotblast equipment i use a diamond grinder with pcd coating removal tooling...

I have used a product called takeoff... but i dont think it was called take off 2000. Along with the soy removal stuff. It was a mess and very labor intensive and i wasn't happy with the products. They claim it can be done for something like .30 a square foot but that was inacurate it cost more. So yes my recomendation comes from personal experience.

 

[thegarageguy]

I think this case is a good example of why you should have an experienced professional do your work. In the end, you allways get what you paid for. Now it'll cost you more than if you had gone ahead and had it done right from the get go.

 

[Oldbroncogarage]

I agree with all that's been said about having a pro do it - a little too late though! I did read the MSDS sheet and Data sheet on this stuff and had done some research on this site too. The best price I could find from a local pro was 5-6X my doing it and I guess I was about tapped out from building the shop as well as being a DIY type.

At the end of the day yes, I should have hire this job out. But also it is a workshop that I expected to get a lot of abuse on the floor with what I do - I just didn't expect it to end up looking like Krap so fast. And I really didn't expect the cold marking from tires - let a tire or any rubber for that matter sit on the floor for >24 hrs and it marks the floor irreversibly (cannot scrub/solvent/cleaner it off). Too it's not durable at all - drop a wrench on it hard enough and you get a scratch. Grind metal at a table and the filings seem to embed into the coating.

I'll probably have to recoat, not sure when or with what, but eventually I will redo the floor and most likely will hire a pro to do it this time (hard lesson learned!).

I guess I'm most perterbed by Ironite's responses to me - they clearly aren't standing behind their product and do not appear at all interested in making any recompense to help improve a customer's satisfaction. I deal with a lot of customers in my business - and I would be out of business if I treated them as Ironite is apparently treating me...

I'll live - but I definitely wanted this forum to hear about this stuff so perhaps I could spare someone else the agony!

Joe

 

[Stuey]

I think this case is a good example of why you should have an experienced professional do your work. In the end, you allways get what you paid for. Now it'll cost you more than if you had gone ahead and had it done right from the get go.

If I recall correctly, someone recently had "experienced professionals" apply their floor coating and it was majorly screwed up. The "pros" had used a new product that they were not experienced with and created a hazardous and toxic situation.

 

[WolverineCoatings]

but... You should be looking for more than just the money back for the product. You're going to have to grind that off!

*** Hmmmm... we toll manufacture for people...

 

[WolverineCoatings]

The guy who recommended the Takeoff 2000 has been doing floors for a long time. He is also NACE, SSPC, and ACI certified. He has a Bachelors degree in Civil Engineering and also holds a PE (Professional Engineer) designation. He is also one of only a few IOPPA Engineers. He is qualified as an expert witness. I'm certain that his company did over 100,000 square feet of coating... LAST WEEK! He is a trusted expert in his field.

I've never used (or even seen) that product in my life... but... going against his advice would be like taking Fred Flinstones word about economics over Alan Greenspan.

I'm going to bet it will work.

 

[Mlynch]

Okay giving advice on something you have never used... great idea.

I am sitting with a gallon of takeoff 2000 right next to me. It actually was called take off 2000 that i used and it was messy and a pain in the *** and nasty stuff to boot... it did however work. My advice is if you can sub it out... if thats not an option use a rental. The take off would be an absolute last resort because it will end up costing you almost as much as having someone else do it. I grind these coatings off just about daily. I dont have 56 different certifications but i have the tangeble experience with both products.

I dunno if i trust a guy who says that chemically is the only way to remove a coating. I could have a rocket scientist tell me there is only one way to skin a cat but we all know how the saying goes.

 

[ron in sc]

I dunno if i trust a guy who says that chemically is the only way to remove a coating.

Sorry for any confusion I may have created. I should have been more specific. When I asked the contractor the question I used as an example the epoxy coating that we were using on my floor. I used Wolverine Coatings epoxy.

Apparently the bond that is created by using Wolverine Coatings primer, color coat and clear coat is so strong that chemical removal is the only alternative. I would not be suprised if some coatings with lesser adhesion properties could also be removed mechanically.

 

[Mlynch]

I promise wolverines epoxies can be removed mechnically... I would bet my life on it! Its not so much breaking the bond as much as "wearing" the coating off. I bet you can take some aggresive sand paper to your floor ron and it would mark it... well put that on some super steroids and you have diamond grinding. One step further is the pcd diamonds that are kind of like diamond blades removing larger chunks of epoxy at a time.

Honestly, other than the chemical removal being a PITA i am not a believer because after the coating is removed the concrete is not porous. So the concrete is still not suitable for recoating. The chemical removal method softens the coating up enough that you use a scraper to scrape the muck off the surface of the concrete. However, all of that epoxy that soaked into the concretes pores is still there. Acid etching wont even dent this "sealed" concrete surface. So ideally you would need to grind anyway to profile and open the pores back up to get decent adhesion. Make sense? The chemical removal technique is really just a niche for really unique situations and should probably be used in tandem with grinding.

 

[Ye Moderne Locksmitherie]

Just Lay PERGO over entire surface....

Come on, guys... a garage has got to look like you actually fix/make or repair things, or it is not a garage.

NICE environment is fine, but get that chandelier out of there, and put the gas area furnace back in !

As far as floor coatings, I have seen terrific jobs that lasted 10 plus years and STILL looked new, and new jobs that look like crup in a month... all on manufacturing facility floors.

I am no engineer, but my guess is the problem was in the prep... etching the concrete to the specs of the finish mfr, and all products coming from same source, and backed by mfr, not just by applicating company.



:}

 

[Oldbroncogarage]

I did prep the floor very carefully following the instructions - including correct dry times between coatings etc... Could I have messed it up - sure, but I can tell you I followed the stated directions to a "T" so maybe there was a problem there?!?

I agree that in the end the floor is still a shop floor and it will never be a showroom floor. I will continue to park vehicles on it, weld, grind metal, spill solvents, etc over it and I never expected it to last forever. I just also never expected it to start falling apart in the first week of use!

Again, I will probably live with it the way it is, but I really feel like I did not get the stated value for what I spent and would expect something from a reputable mfg or retailer of the product in return to address my dissatisfaction with the product. I've gotten bunk back from them other than telling they'd sell me more at a small discount and then telling me they have mfg issues so cannot and that I should go use someone else's product!!

Frankly that kind of response does nothing but piss me off further.

Joe

 

[Oldbroncogarage]

Just Lay PERGO over entire surface....


I am no engineer, but my guess is the problem was in the prep...

:}

Well, I am an engineer. I do the Old Bronco thing as a hobby and stress relief from working in the Semiconductor industry. Funny how stupid one can feel even having 2 engineering degrees!

Joe

 

[700jfm]

Oldbroncogarage thanks for the WARNING I will stay away from IRONITE when I do my garage. It sounds like (to me anyways) that you did the right prep. Working in chem. plants for most of my life I know that sometimes a product can be off spec. and get sent out. So who knows, the paint could of been sitting in the back of a truck in the hot sun or in the freezing cold, or just old.

 

[ron in sc]

I bet you can take some aggressive sand paper to your floor ron and it would mark it...

I’m going to use a 60 grit sanding screen on a buffer/polisher per manufacturers and contractors instructions to rough up surface so I can put another coat of clear epoxy on top. I have some flakes that are sticking up above clearcoat I applied. I did not scraper like I was supposed to. Fortunately, I can just apply another coat. I like the way the floor can be sanded and more coats of clear applied so the finished floor will be perfectly smooth. I don’t know if all epoxies can have multiple coats of clear.

The chemical removal technique is really just a niche for really unique situations

I would certainly think a floor would need to be shotblasted or otherwise prepared again after chemical removal. But shotblasting is really fast and simple. My garage is about 575 sq. ft. and it took them about 30 minutes or so to shotblast it. I suppose the down side to shotblasting is you will need to find a contractor who is heavily into floor coatings because I understand the heavy duty shotblasters are quite expensive. I had estimates from other contractors for epoxy and none had shotblasting equipment, which was my first choose for the method to prepare floor.

 

[Oldbroncogarage]

Oldbroncogarage thanks for the WARNING I will stay away from IRONITE when I do my garage. It sounds like (to me anyways) that you did the right prep.

Well I'm glad I've been able to warn off at least one person...that was what I was attempting to do, other than vent of course

The only thing I did not do prep-wise was shotblast the new concrete, but then again the Ironite boys didn't recommend this in their instructions either....

Joe