Was it worth it for you?

[Terracar]

Hi Guys,

I have been awol for a long time, not that I was super active to begin with.

I have a question for you. Was it worth it for you?

If you wish for the full story continue below, otherwise nutshell version: Stuff went sideways, headaches, government and rules. Is the headache and hassle worth it?

My wife recently gave me the green light on building a shop/garage. I have the perfect spot for it, with the perfect access/layout to work with everything I have.

Since my last visit here, I have picked up a SCUT, a new project vehicle (that is anything but small in size), and several bicycles since the kids are bigger now. My current garage has an L-shaped path to get me to the door to open it and get tractor out. Anything more is a process of shifting things around to get to it.

So I really would like another garage/shop. With the wife's permission after completing several large projects of hers, she gave the green light for a new shop.

Well, I figured a 24x36 would fit my needs nicely, provide some room for growth and not take up too much of the back yard. I have the perfect spot picked out, offset behind the current garage. This would allow me to put in a man door so I could have a breeze way (future) to the shop. Added benefit, just drive down the side, which was just graveled - easy peasy.

Well, I reached out to the county to double check set backs. None of this info is on their website anymore, so you have to send them an email or leave a message and wait for them to get back to you. What a nightmare. Well, things have changed since I bought the house 12 years ago. I am considered to be in a Wildland Urban Interface zone. What that means is I have a minimum setback of 30' from the property line and 25' from the easement line (read as 30' easement + another 25' setback = 55' from property line. Then a whopping 6' from other buildings.

Armed with this new knowledge, I knew it was going to be tight. So after a solid afternoon of trapesing around the property being stabbed, scratched and lacerated by trees, bushes, thorns and barbed wire, I located the markers/monuments for the property lines. Doing the best I could, to fit within the limits I would have to shrink the size to around 18-20' x 36'.

I can apply for a variance and try to get approval from the Fire Department, so I may still be able to get my 24x36.

Nutshell version - Of the 165' length of property on that side, I have a useable space of about 70'. Now subtract the space occupied by the garage/house and I have about 20'. Just infuriating.

I weighed my options as 20' is really not going to work to house my project vehicle and be able to work on it (it is 19.6'). I look at other options - other side of the property is a possibility, but will require a much long run for electrical and I will need to clear the trees from that area. It also encroaches on the main play area of the yard. This means there would be additional felling required to keep the yard the same. This would be 2x-3x original estimated investment.

A third option is to add on the the existing garage. This would be 5-6x the original estimated investment.

Then the wife throws out - are you going to gravel or put a slab for the shop. Originally, I was planning on doing gravel to keep costs down, and do concrete later. After considering her question, I think it would be better to start with the slab. I think it would be about another 10k for the concrete.

At the end of yesterday, I just swore off the project. I am not sure I want to spend the money to get it.

So, I ask you GJ members, was your garage/shop worth the headache, stress and money spent?

Thank you for input.

-Terracar/Joe

 

[Showkey]

Worth all the effort and penny spent.

To the point if I was building new and the restrictions became too much of a burden or hassle ........I would move.

 

[firebirdparts]

Yes, worth every penny. I haven't done as much stuff in it as I should have, but that is my own fault.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Absolutely worth it, Joe... plus move ahead seeking the variance with whichever powers that be to continue with your original size... you might be able to play the "I owned the property and planned this before the new setback requirements were in place" card, also if you get the OK from your neighbors it could work in your advantage when putting your case forward...

I also like doing the "donut donation" routine when you do in-person visits to the planning / permits office...

Welcome back!

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Yes it was. We have lived here 39 years. For the last 38, I have worked in a shop with an uneven, cracked and potholed floor, and a just barely high enough ceiling to pull an engine- a lift was out of the question. On top of that, with my milling machine, lathe, and other tools there was not a lot of room left to work on vehicles or other projects. I am 65, retired, and working in my shop is one of my greatest pleasures.

Last year, I built a 26 x 48 shop on the only portion of my property that made sense. Even though we own 10 acres, the topography is such that I could only go 26’ deep once I satisfied the 50’ front yard setback because we live on a ridge and most of our land sits 30 to 40 feet below the portion where our house is. I considered tearing down the old shop to use that site, but it didn’t make sense to spend money to destroy a perfectly usable storage building. Locating the shop on the larger, lower portion would have complicated the utility run and I’m not sure I could have persuaded the construction vehicles to traverse the steep, rocky access road that we use.

I was fortunate to work with a guy who had designed and built a garage addition for my daughter’s house, so he was known and trusted. The only anxiety I had was during excavation because we knew some rock excavation would be needed, but the difficulty was unknown. Fortunately, that was accomplished within the 1 day allotted for that in the contract.

It was definitely worth it.

 

[Hooked]

Absolutely. My only regret is I didn't listen to the little voice in the back of my head (my wife) which kept asking are you building it large enough.

 

[Kaizen]

Get out of your own way and apply for a variance. Worry after you get an answer.
Not worth fighting if it does not work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Shiftless]

Absolutely. My only regret is I didn't listen to the little voice in the back of my head (my wife) which kept asking are you building it large enough.

Right!
I’ve been active on GJ for 7 years and have never read a complaint that started out with “I built my garage/shop too big”.

 

[vavet]

How difficult is it to try to get a variance? Is this something that requires studies and data from environmental engineers? Or can a bureaucrat in the permits office look at it and say "looks like you're meeting the original intent of what we wanted to do" and rubber stamp it? If it's more like the latter, then that's the easy route and gives you what you want without only a little more paperwork. if it's the former...then, well, only you can answer it. Life is all a big compromise. Save/invest now to live better later? Eat a second piece of birthday cake but walk an extra mile tomorrow morning?
How much enjoyment do you expect to reap from having this dedicated shop? I have a relatively modest (by GJ standards) 24x32 dedicated detached garage. The 24x30 attached garage houses the DDs, lawn equipment, bikes, etc. The detached garage is all mine for my projects.
We built this house in 2015 with this garage in mind. We could not find an existing house we liked in the area we wanted with either sufficient garage space or the land to build one....so there's a lot that went into this garage. It didn't actually get built until 2017..or maybe 2018, but the plan was always there. Lots of other sacrifices went into making it a reality. I'm quite happy with my garage and I enjoy having it.

 

[ddurrett896]

Easiest money I’ve spent and dealt with variance and permits for months.

 

[bbxlr8]

Both of my neighbors have gone this route with variance setbacks etc. Guy next door was dealing with "wetlands" read as only in the spring or in a monsoon! In PA, the local township is very proud of their powers. It took a LOT of perseverance and hassle for them but they were happy in the end. I would try for your original plan with my 2 cents.

I purchased a property with an existing 40x40 and don't get me wrong, I am thankful but I have a whole lot of "what were they thinking and more $ than sense" in that they did not do or intend on doing any ACTUAL work in it.

 

[tez929rr]

Of course but we didn’t have anything like the permit hassles you describe. I can see how you would get discouraged. Maybe go talk to your FD if they can waive some of the requirements and get a feel for what they want. For all you know the permit guys at the county and FD may want to work with you. Our county doesn’t have many things requiring permits; when we did our second steel building we added a septic system, and the permitting process was easy. We had to modify the design during construction (unforeseen rock ledge underground) and the inspector was very helpful.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I definitely think a concrete slab would be good to put down instead of gravel even if it is more expensive. I’m wanting to build a garage. The original layout of my house was supposed to have a garage but they never finished it when the previous owner moved in. It’s been so long ago that the house was built that I probably would have to get approval to do it and I have no idea the restrictions on mine. As a mechanic not having a home garage really *****. I think it’s worth the money.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Gunfixr]

Well, my slab and building is up, but it's nowhere near a "shop" yet.
But, I had no choice, so the pennies spent are irrelevant.......
That said, i'd like to have the pennies to continue the process from a building full of stuff into a garage/shop, and already don't mind spending them, should I get them........

 

[thammel]

Definitely worth it. Started 13 years ago and got final approval 11 years ago. It has kept me sane during this pandemic. I have a place to tinker and play with things. I can work on my cars in comfort and peace. You have a couple of options. Move to another place with the room to do what you want to do or go for the variance. I did a variance at a prior house and it was not a big deal. 24' width is the minimum I'd want to go in width. Any smaller and you'd be annoyed.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Get out of your own way and apply for a variance. Worry after you get an answer.
Not worth fighting if it does not work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

This. Worth trying for. Gravel will be fine for a few years, if you get it.

You miss 100% of all the shots you don’t take. Take a shot, give it your best

 

[HPRifleman]

I can't answer the part of your question regarding the end result. But I was in a similar situation to yours about a year ago.

We bought our place in 2019 and my plan was to build the garage that I had wanted since I was a kid. At the end of 2019 I started contacting builders to turn my dream into reality. I knew that the project would require effort and money but I had no idea that it would require so much of both.

Our village has a 50' setback requirement for any building in 4-acre zoning, which we fall into. This was workable for the new garage. But there was also an ordinance that limited garage size to no larger than 20% of the dwelling size. This was regardless of the size of the lot which seemed ridiculous to me. We have a modest 1950's home of 2800 sq.ft. with an existing 24' x 24' garage.

So to get my garage I had to go the village and try to get a variance. I've thought about creating a separate post about my experience with this as I think it would be educational for many people. But, in short, virus shut downs and a zoning board of appeals that hesitates to let anyone build stuff delayed things until I shrunk my garage down to 31% of dwelling space. To even do this required me to increase the size of my home so the ratio came out to their liking. Don't even get me started about how I had to pay for all the board's legal fees during this process. With all the delays that took over 6 months.

Throw in rising lumber prices, busy sub-contractors, and a myriad of other details and the whole process has sucked the enthusiasm out of me. At this point I've spent almost $23,000 and we haven't even broken ground yet. I'm just trying to keep the whole thing moving forward.

But I have invested so much effort into this dream that I refuse to let the system grind me down. The whole thing WILL be built and I WILL enjoy it when it's done.

 

[justjohn]

I was the one trying to keep costs down with my spouse pushing for an upgraded space. Even did the math and spacing for lighting to make sure I had no shadows. So I went along and we had a 2 bay garage built with 12 foot doors, new cabinets, tables, etc plus a walk in top floor for storage. It could not have been any closer to exactly what I wanted and ran into six figures with the foundation/retaining wall requirements. After a couple of years, I can honestly say if I'm not at work, spending time with my spouse, or otherwise away from the house, that's where I spend all my time. It's the best personal space I've ever had in my entire life.

 

[Onator]

Do it now! If you think the changes in the 12 years you reference to the category of "Wildland Urban Interface zone" was bad - wait until Biden/Harris and team get finished their detoxification mission. You'll be in a newly created EARTH FIRST REVITALIZATION GIVE BACK ZONE - where you'll have to forfeit another 25' of setback, plant wild grasses and tear-down your existing out building... Build it now and then Hold the Hill !!!

 

[pmiranda]

I'd definitely go for the variance. I'd play up the angle that you'd planned the project based on the original plats when you bought the land.
As for concrete, if you're planning on doing it later, I say do it now while it's easier and probably less total money in the end. If I can't afford to do something right, I save up until I can.

 

[egdede]

Onator has one hand on the Fox TV remote and the other on his....

 

[pmiranda]

BTW, in terms of "worth it", my shop has so far cost about 50% more than I originally expected. Part of that is me not wanting to compromise, or thinking of addons that weren't originally in the plan, but most of it is the higher cost of labor and materials than I expected. There's an old saying "fast, inexpensive, or good: pick two". I only held out for "good", since the 'rona made "fast" impossible.

 

[Old Fart]

Hey Terracar, by SW Wa, do you by any chance live in Clark County? If so, you may have to do some research and play hardball. If you're not in Clark, this may not apply, but I'll throw it out to you. Clark County has been sliding in all kinds of regs that are VERY developer friendly, not so much for the home/land owner.
I lived in Clark for most of my 72 years and have never heard of Wildlife Urban Interface zone, so that may be another low-key reg that has been passed. Did you receive any notification of this change? If not...I smell a rat!
Anyway, I would research the exact details of when and who ramrodded this through (home owners, developers, HOA, whatever), that will give you an idea of the politics of it, and therefore who may be allies or opponents in your quest to get a variance. Next, look for the loophole: in the case of wetlands, you CAN get a variance IF you agree to dedicate a different area of the property to serve the purpose (developers do it all the time, you wouldn't believe what's built on former lowlands). Armed with the above, you can form a plan for 'fighting city hall'. Don't be belligerent, be assertive, and do your homework. Also...try to figure out if you can 'grandfather' this in, since you have owned the property for 12 years, you are not trying to define a new use for the property.
As for a driveway, give that some thought: IF this is a wetlands/wildlife issue, gravel may be more acceptable to 'the powers that be' than concrete. It doesn't have the runoff issues of a hard surface, will allow some localized absorbption, and is more wetland/wildlife friendly. I would, however, consider curbing both sides to prevent gravel from spreading.
Good luck!

 

[bugnut]

I'll agree with all those who say go for the variance. I would enlarge the building size when you go for the variance, if not approved you can negotiate to a smaller size if it helps. I work in my building daily and have since my involuntary retirement. As said by others never heard, I made it too big!
Good Luck!

 

[jmiller_2308]

Worth it.

When I was building my shop I too had issues with setbacks and height that had significant impacts on changing what I originally envisioned to what I eventually built.

I originally weighed separate building vs. addition but septic location and alternate septic location along with height and setback requirements quickly solved that question. I went with attached to solve the setback and height requirements and in practice that reduced the cost of the building as well as made my shop a great deal more accessible from a use, water, and electricity standpoints.

I am in a "rural residential" zone which like the OP has special setback rules that are different from what was published and what I designed to. In the end I needed to take out a few more trees and reduce the width of the shop by 1 foot to meet the zoning requirements. If you are close, hire a surveyor to get it down to the nats. I suspect my overhang was actually non-compliant and might be slightly into the setback but with the survey etc. the inspector gave me now hassle.

Although I had to compromise in both height and width I still got a shop that is sized more than good enough; yes I would have liked more but the pleasure I get from my shop is still incalculable. I retired a few years ago and I know I'd be going bonkers if I didn't have my shop.

 

[MushCreek]

I would try for the variance, and consider moving if it's a no-go. I love my shop. Now that I'm retired, I spend much of my day out there. Part of the reason we left FL was because we had no room for anything, and it would have cost too much for land. We moved to a much cheaper area in SC, and started with raw wooded land. I built most of our place myself at age 60. Now we have 8 acres, a new house, and a big (enough) shop, all paid for. Lots of hard work, and well worth it. We've never been rich people, yet we're exactly where we wanted to be in retirement.

 

[paredown]

I don't know what your area is doing for public meetings--for us the Village has them on Zoom--but it may help your planning if you sign in and listen to couple of meetings--both zoning and variance meetings. They are usually boring as h*ll, but after a couple of meetings you will have a better sense of what kind of group they are, and whether they are cooperative or stonewallers.

I've dealt with both--the sensible folks realize that a little give and take encourages investment and improvement in their jurisdiction--others think their role is to apply the letter of the law with no exceptions. Which type you would be dealing with would make a big difference in my willingness to continue pursuing the garage you want.

As an aside, I'm on day 2 of restoring a machine (planer) that was exposed to the weather (though covered)--and previously I had to rebuild my cabinet saw for the same reason. I wish that I had pushed harder earlier for decent working space!

 

[kerr]

We built our 28x40 shop in 1996 . I asked the smartest guy I knew how high to make the shop . He said 16" at the walls so higher with roof peak . I said no way , thats too tall , 10 ft be more than enough .

About 5 years ago we took the entire roof, trusses decking and all OFF to add 6 ft. to the top of the entire building and put it all back together .

He WAS the smartest kid I know after all . Peterbuilt stacks were 13ft tall . 24in header across the tall main door and sure enough to get even an average rv in the shop you gonna need 16' tall .

Very much worth the trouble both times , love the shop .

 

[toyotadriver]

Another option is to move to a free state.

 

[pbon]

I could have bought my dream car, a used Porsche Turbo, instead of renovating my carriage house into a shop. I chose to renovate the carriage house. The shop provides a hobby for me, which is more important than another car. Eventually, I will get the car.

Hire the land use attorney to go for the variance since the extra space would make your shop the most useful. If you lose, add on to your existing shop. Convenience is worth a lot, especially as you age. Pour a slab.

 

[Terracar]

Thank you all for your input and advice.

The theme I took away from it all - get what you want - do it better than you expect. That said, the option I was presented/approved, it was already a compromise in what I wanted. I will be saving a little longer to get what I want.

In the interim, I will be building 2 10x20ft sheds with a canopy between them to park the project and/or trailers with a gravel pad down. This will be a nice interim solution as it will provide the much needed storage and provide the covered parking. And no need to deal with permits.

Of course, it doesn't help the wife is now looking at land/property elsewhere. I swear, that lady changes her mind more than.... well, more than I do. Though, the thought of 20+ acres is very appealing. Now if we can just ensure decent internet access and if her employer will allow her to work remote since it is on the other side of the state. I am already remote, so no sweat for me - just need internet.

Hey Terracar, by SW Wa, do you by any chance live in Clark County?
Good luck!

Hahaha - Yep, Clark County. In case I mistyped, it is the wildland urban interface - concern is mitigating the fire risks and allowing a minimum of 25' defensible area around the property.


Thank you again everyone!

-Terracar / Joe

 

[BMW Rider]

I built an addition onto my existing garage on our large city lot several years ago. I had initially proposed a larger addition than what was finally approved. Had to jump through a ton of hoops and did a lot of paperwork and paid a lot in fees, but it was worth it. Even though I ended up with about half the addition I wanted, the extra space has been a game changer for my workshop.

I would look at not just the footprint, but at the height options as well. You may be able to stay within the smaller dimensions if you can add height to get even attic space for storage or maybe a loft space.