King Bojack
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2010
- Messages
- 241
Adjusting for inflation and what not has SO always been so much more expensive than a CMan or BHawk back in the day or did they used to have more affordability?
Was SO always so expensive?
- Thread starter King Bojack
- Start date
I can fix anything
Well-known member
Always higher I think.
volvo420coupe
Well-known member
I believe snap on was much more affordable when I first started working on cars. you do the math yourself, snap on increases their prices about 10% a year, inflation is 4-6%. I bought more snap on tools my first 3 years wrenching than I have the last 10 just for this reason.
billymade
Well-known member
I think this is a great question to ask; maybe on a anecdotal level, we could ask everyone to remember how much they paid for a basic 3/8" standard length ratchet; F936, F830 etc. The earliest price list I have is from 2002; in this example, a F936 was listed @ $60.50... and now the "same" ratchet a F80 is listed @ $80.75! Maybe we can go from there! People list what they paid for a basic 3/8" ratchet and circa what time frame.... I'm sure there are some bean counters or a online adjustment; that could get us in the ballpark! The other issue is; the diminished buying power of your average "mechanic" and how in the past, it seems everyone was able to make a better living then now.
The massive fuel hike back in 2008 caused a lot of steel prices to inflate. Plus with the declining dollar over the years, it becomes more and more expensive to import their tools/raw materials and what not. And before anyone thinks i'm joking, i'm not just talking about the COO SO brand tools that people like to poke fun at, but their legitimate imports as well. That stuff got more expensive to make and move also. I'd imagine they'd keep the price of their premium lines a certain % over what they price their imports.
chadster1
Well-known member
Snap-on started selling from trucks very early on. In the '30's I think. The payment plan is also something from the beginning. Those two things are what built Snap-on into the size that it is today.
rayzor32
Well-known member
Snap on used to be cheaper, If something was 10 bucks at sears it was probably 15 or 20 from snap on. Now its about 40.
woody 73
Well-known member
I can remember back around 1975 I could buy craftsman tools with only a few dollars,but the snap-on tools were out of my price range, I apologize as I can not recall the amount.
That's really interesting. In general credit is a post 50's kind of things. Thanks for the post!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20894
According to the .gov CPI calculator, $10 in 1929 is $127.74 now. Of course, that won't hold much longer.
According to the .gov CPI calculator, $10 in 1929 is $127.74 now. Of course, that won't hold much longer.
TangoFoxTrot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
- Messages
- 1,961
My issue with Snap On prices (and why they have a HUGE premium) is they're really a bank disguised as a tool company.
The premium has a lot to do with financing high risk borrowers. Instead of charging $50 for a ratchet, and say charging 20% interest on a payment plan, they just say its $70, and you can pay that off "interest free".
That's been their whole business model from the beginning, allowing mechanics to be able to practice their trade without a huge amount of capital up front.
My problem is, I don't finance tools,and I really don't like paying a premium for something I'm not a part of (even though I feel Snap-On has superior quality)
You'll notice on their "Student Discount" programs they give you about a 50% discount, but that's a "cash" price (you can't pay that off over time). I really doubt Snap-On "loses" money on these programs.
The premium has a lot to do with financing high risk borrowers. Instead of charging $50 for a ratchet, and say charging 20% interest on a payment plan, they just say its $70, and you can pay that off "interest free".
That's been their whole business model from the beginning, allowing mechanics to be able to practice their trade without a huge amount of capital up front.
My problem is, I don't finance tools,and I really don't like paying a premium for something I'm not a part of (even though I feel Snap-On has superior quality)
You'll notice on their "Student Discount" programs they give you about a 50% discount, but that's a "cash" price (you can't pay that off over time). I really doubt Snap-On "loses" money on these programs.
fordbroncodave
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2009
- Messages
- 4,555
i see the reflection of snap on tools in my dads toolbox. you could tell he bought alot back in the 70's and late 60's, however as years gone by all the old snap on remains but craftsman has taken a chunk out of it.
one of the more fond tools is his master slide hammer set and the 30+ tri handle black screwdrivers from snap on
one of the more fond tools is his master slide hammer set and the 30+ tri handle black screwdrivers from snap on
wafrederick
Well-known member
I have a few old SO catalogs with the price guides.a shallow 9/16" 12 point socket in 1/2 drive cost fifty five cents in 1953.I looked it up for being curious.Snap On made some parts obsolete,I had a breaker bar from 1959 this way until my brother broke it.Dealer down the road in my area said the screw was obsolete after looking it up and put loctite on the threads.
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
we just made a lot more money back then
A 1929 $10 gold coin now has a melt value of $673.81.
http://www.coinflation.com/gold_coin_values.html
When the Mac Plus came out in 1985 I bought my first Snapon tool, extra long blade torx to open the case, cost me around $15 which was freaking insanity for a screwdriver at the time.
Highest price has been a component of the appeal for a LONG time. The most expensive has to be the best, right?
Highest price has been a component of the appeal for a LONG time. The most expensive has to be the best, right?
Have you got one around 1963? I've got a '63 MAC price list. Be interesting to compare a few prices.
wafrederick
Well-known member
No I don't.
bill300d
Well-known member
have access to a copy of the 62 catalog if that helps
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
///////////////////////
Last edited:
doctorschmullus
Well-known member
Please dont drill me for this,
A cheap impact wrench costs 10 bucks from china and 30 bucks for the highest quality china one.
As much as you can say "its more expensive to produce in america" its not that. Snap on offers a (debatably) better product than some other (speciffically German) companies andin thinking this they pump up the product price unreachably high.
It stinks,
but yeah
if you want it say goodbye to a considerable part of the weekly wage
A cheap impact wrench costs 10 bucks from china and 30 bucks for the highest quality china one.
As much as you can say "its more expensive to produce in america" its not that. Snap on offers a (debatably) better product than some other (speciffically German) companies andin thinking this they pump up the product price unreachably high.
It stinks,
but yeah
if you want it say goodbye to a considerable part of the weekly wage
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
The price has always been high but the diferance it is now but the biggest differance is the technicians wages have gone way down. In other words, it cost a lot more to get the job done, the % of what the tech gets is garbage. The avearge tech makes the same thing a tech did in 1985, the tools to do it with are about 100% higher.
Heavy Metal Doctor
Well-known member
To a point, yes, but I believe companies like John Deere have been financing directly to the purchaser for a long, long, time -- in JD's case, it's a big part of what built thier huge loyalty through the depression by not repo'ing tractors. I'd venture a guess that SO has sort of done the same thing with thier financing.....all the stories I've ever heard form the SO man is you really gotta be in bad shape for him to repo tools.
billymade
Well-known member
UPDATED:*************************
So, anyone have prices for a Snap-On 3/8" ratchet from older price lists?
So, far:
1965/6 : F-71D $7.77
12/31/84 F720 $28.85
12/31/84 F730 $28.85
1/1/90 F720A $38.25
1/1/90 F730A $38.25
11/23/92 F830 $48.75
11/30/98 F936 $58.95
11/25/02 F936 $61.71
2002: F936 $60.50
4/4/05 F936 $67.50
3/3/07 F936 $69.50
8/13/08 F80 $76.25
2010: F80 $80.75
So, anyone have prices for a Snap-On 3/8" ratchet from older price lists?
So, far:
1965/6 : F-71D $7.77
12/31/84 F720 $28.85
12/31/84 F730 $28.85
1/1/90 F720A $38.25
1/1/90 F730A $38.25
11/23/92 F830 $48.75
11/30/98 F936 $58.95
11/25/02 F936 $61.71
2002: F936 $60.50
4/4/05 F936 $67.50
3/3/07 F936 $69.50
8/13/08 F80 $76.25
2010: F80 $80.75
Last edited:
Beerman
Well-known member
I'm guessing they will, only due to attrition. I RARELY see any of the other tool trucks in town-I see a Snappy truck once per week or so. My wife goes to church with a Cornwell dealer. Five years ago or so, I had a used top chest I was trying to sell, so I contacted this guy to see if he'd help me sell it on commission. We had a long talk about the tool business. Back then, he was one of two Cornwell dealers in the area, and he was trying to get out. His brother was an hourly supervisor at a local major manufacturing facility, and as soon as his brother could get him on, he was getting the hell OUT of the tool business.
There's been a few Snappy dealers that have come and gone, but they always find someone to take the route over. The others seem to be hanging on by a thread-at least in my neck of the woods.
Beerman
Scooterfish
Well-known member
I bought a snap on 3/8 dr 11 inch bend handle flex head for $15 cash new in 1973. At 4% inflation that would be $ 64 today & 5% inflation $91. Its only a 20 or 24 tooth but would compare to FB80 today at $114.
crewchief888
Well-known member
my hourly wage has more than quadrupled since 1985
seems like i paid around $100 for a set of SO comb wrenches 3/8-3/4 in '85
same set now goes for $175 or so.
seems to me the biggest problem any "new tech" has now is "i want it all right now, instead of taking several years to build up a usuable and diverse set of tools.
ive seen several young guys just getting started, and spend wayyy too much $$ on a tool truck, cuz they think that if i have this huge toolbox, and a bunch of shiney new tools, it'll make me a "pro".
Back in the 1930's-1960's Blackhawk was a really big deal with professional mechanics where I grew up. Most of the old mechanics when I grew up used Blackhawk and Mac Tools. My uncle and a few others used SO, but most people shook their heads at them saying they were paying too much for their tools. SO had the reputation as being flat out too expensive. Most folks at that time wouldn't finance anything. They didn't trust owing someone. If you bought something you paid for it with cash or else people would talk about how you would get what was coming to you for borrowing. That was just how rural life was at the time. By 70's, things really changed.
Don 18
Well-known member
Here is an inflation calculator:
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
billymade
Well-known member
Allot "mechanics" that I've talked to who were active in the 40's-60s; seems Proto was a very popular and respected brand, as well! I wonder why Proto went out of favor with mechanics; became more of the domain of the industrial sector? I don't think; they ever had the van distribution model but had salesmen with display "tool boards" and mechanics could make payments on tool purchases.
Last edited:
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
When Proto was Pendelton tool then Ingersol Rand owned even with the cheaper/ economy lines they sold Proto was promoted and sold every where from auto parts and hardware stores to industial suppliers and any place people would by tools. I had atleast four warehouses and ten auto parts stores to buy Proto almost available seven days a week odr could order for the next day for any part number. Then came Stanley and a new direction, Blackhawk for auto parts stores, Stanley for hardware stores, Mac for automotive direct sales and Proto Indutrial sales. So Proto that was on every corner store is now hard to find unless you know were to go and find it atleast in my area. Of couse the internet helps but it is a far cry from the numbers they used to sell I'm sure.
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I forgot to post about So and pricing I would say I saw a big difference in price when they became a publicly traded company. Before that they were high but after that they went crazy and even did lower prices on some hard line products a few years ago to stimmulate sales I'm sure that had stalled.
sberry
Banned
When I started I priced snappy and Cman, I think it would have cost me 13-16K for what I got for 3500 and that didn't include a box from them. I wasn't too vain about it, I started with Cman. A few busted sockets but not a big deal, everything else worked fine. I remember almost peeing my pants over pricing though.
wafrederick
Well-known member
$7.77 for a F-71D: 3/8 ratchet in 1965/1966
$126.86 for a wrench set in this same year.Looked this up in a catalog with the price guide.Snap On makes the biggest socket size out there,13 5/8" and this socket is used in power plants
$126.86 for a wrench set in this same year.Looked this up in a catalog with the price guide.Snap On makes the biggest socket size out there,13 5/8" and this socket is used in power plants
It would be interesting to have a price list for Snap-On, Craftsman, and perhaps Proto or SK or one of the other mid-market brands to compare prices, and see how they have changed since about 1950. I somehow suspect that Snap-On has been the only one really keeping up with inflation, and that on an inflation adjusted basis the others have actually declined in price...
chad s
Well-known member
The trucks came in the early 20's actually, the payment plans came in the depression era.
Vinko
Well-known member
My SO man thought this argument had some merit. Since real wages for working people have gone down, tools do seem more expensive.
He did say (he's been selling SO for over 30 years) that "guys have always complained about the price".
I wonder though, if in proportion to income, SO tools haven't outpaced wages by quite a bit. Certainly, with distribution channels for industrial tools over the 'net, that's got to take a bite out of it as well.