Was SO always so expensive?

[Carquest]

a few years ago I began a phase where I decided to either read or re-read the classics. We were poor growing up and I read a lot of Readers Digest Condensed books when I was a kid spending summers at my Grandmothers (no tv). I just started 1984 after finishing Atlas Shrugged last year...sadly I don't have those old books anymore but have been picking them up at yard sales and library give-a-way days...

And no, the hopium is low for mankind...

Atlas Shrugged is an awesome book, it has so many concepts and situations that still happen today. And, like you, I read a lot of Reader's Digest condensed books as a youngster in the 80's, we had tv but no cable, and my parents never complained about how much I read...

 

[NUTTSGT]

Keep in mind, this thread was started over a decade ago. It was recently brought back from the dead (11 years) by a new member.

 

[Ton ton]

Somethings have not changed much as far as overall pricing strategy in last 11 years. When you buy Tool truck tools, you are paying for the driver's tires, fuel , health insurance, taxes , etc.

 

[HFlashman]

I bought my first tools which were Craftsman in the early to mid 1970's and seemed pretty expensive, like $40 for a combo wrench set or a 3/8" basic metric ratchet set (a ratchet, 8 or 9 sockets and one short extension). Remember, that was in 1973 and 74 dollars!

 

[Ton ton]

I agree with some of the other posters about using snap on tools in the poultry house and losing them in the bedding. I heard my adjustable wrench go clink- clink when I was running the house keeper cleaning out the litter.

 

[bsaint]

I just paid 165 for a SO indexable 1/4 ratchet. But got a free beach towel lol

 

[Wrench97]

As I'm sure has been posted here before you are not just paying for the tool, they are for the most part the best tools to use in the automotive repair industry, I have most of the original sockets in the 3/8" socket set I bought in the early 70's and used every day if one did break (1/2" & 9/16" were the most common to break/wear) 1 phone call and usually within a hour the Snap On driver was there with the replacement. When I was doing 8.2L head gaskets and breaking 5/8"& 16mm 12pt sockets one call and he would show up with a handful and say give me back what you don't use next week(they finally came out with a 16mm impact that held up to the torque spec).
When you buy Snap On Matco or Mac you are paying for service and a tool.
The driver makes all the difference.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Thinking back... the fall back position was Craftsman... especially if you were either juststarting out or (more likely) didn't have a SO dealer coming by or nearby. There were also other tools (Williams, Blackhawk, SK, etc.) which were the same or just above C'man or were specialized tools... but yeah, S/O tools were an Investment (ergo all the stickers like "You can borrow my wife or my bike, but NOT my S/O tools") and cost more, but you also knew that incvestment would pay off with quality tools and the guarantee that said "You bust it, we replace it"... Kind of like Craftsman... which is why the pro wrenches went (usually) with one or the other. (BTW, I still have the oil filter impeller spline wrench for a Honda 450 you need to open up the engine... and yep, C'man. )

Got a Sears Roebuck & Co near the shop? You were likely to favor Craftsman. Work in a shop and have a S/O delaer? Snap On. But either way, you needed a tool, they had it. Period. Backyard mechanic? Whatever "import" tools you could get at Grand Auto until they broke.

 

[Wrench97]

Thinking back... the fall back position was Craftsman... especially if you were either juststarting out or (more likely) didn't have a SO dealer coming by or nearby. There were also other tools (Williams, Blackhawk, SK, etc.) which were the same or just above C'man or were specialized tools... but yeah, S/O tools were an Investment (ergo all the stickers like "You can borrow my wife or my bike, but NOT my S/O tools") and cost more, but you also knew that incvestment would pay off with quality tools and the guarantee that said "You bust it, we replace it"... Kind of like Craftsman... which is why the pro wrenches went (usually) with one or the other. (BTW, I still have the oil filter impeller spline wrench for a Honda 450 you need to open up the engine... and yep, C'man. )

Got a Sears Roebuck & Co near the shop? You were likely to favor Craftsman. Work in a shop and have a S/O delaer? Snap On. But either way, you needed a tool, they had it. Period. Backyard mechanic? Whatever "import" tools you could get at Grand Auto until they broke.

Yep I had a bunch of Craftsman back in the day, after awhile when they broke they got replaced at work with Snap On or Matco and the Craftsman got replaced and came home, sadly now when the Craftsman socket or wrench breaks or gets worn out I just toss it as the replacements especially the ratchets are just junk and as my wife says I have more then I need.

 

[Sumboodie]

Snap on used to be cheaper, If something was 10 bucks at sears it was probably 15 or 20 from snap on. Now its about 40.

Only time I've bought Snap On was when there was a discount. Used to be about 50% off for large users (military, gov, etc). Even then it was often still more expensive.

I'm not brand loyal whatsoever. If it works fine, that's enough for me.
A $10 wrench can take off a bolt often just as well as a $100 one.

 

[Sumboodie]

If my calculations are right these prices severly outstrip inflation. to SO for pulling these kinds of price hikes successfully!

$28 in 1984 is about $73 today.

 

[jpaw]

The biggest mistake I see is a snap on box full of hf tools when it should be the other way around.
The kids always have to have that shiny big box 1/8 full of junk tools.

 

[Mikeske]

I went what ever worked and when I started out after doing 7 years active duty Air Force and working as a vehicle mechanic. I bought Bonney 60% of the cost of Snap-on and Bonney at that time was sold at Grainger and the store was a block away from the dealership I worked at. After I retrained from vehicle mechanic to aircraft mechanic I hired in at a major aircraft manufacturer in Seattle and then my supervisor very quickly informed me to mark all my Bonney tools as the company also used Bonney tools out of the tool rooms. So I marked everything I used there.

After ten years or so we were informed to take our hand tools home as all tools were to be provided by the company. The tool room clerk and I went through my box and I had several Bonney tools that were company marked and I get ready to turn them in the clerk said put them back in your toolbox as all the Bonney tools are being disposed of.

Snap-on makes some fine tools but for me being a cash and carry mechanic I tended toward getting the best price possible even though I did buy a complete set of Snap-on ratchets in the early 1980's but then I got them at 70% off the list price by getting them at a pawn shop.

 

[dstblj52]

I’ve had this discussion with others many times over the years,when you figure the investment to purchase and operate/maintain that truck,then figure how much could a person sell in a 5 day week and then take into account that the tool man has a mortgage,kids in college etc,the markup has to be absolutely massive!Compared to old Sears store where everything was sold from a fixed location along side everything else you could possibly want knowing full well that Sears always made a profit on comparative quality tools,something just doesn’t add up!Point being that SO sold in regular retail environment could obviously be priced considerably lower than off the truck.

A lot of it is Williams has a decent amount of rebadged snap on for a lot less money

 

[Badgerstate]

Adjusting for inflation and what not has SO always been so much more expensive than a CMan or BHawk back in the day or did they used to have more affordability?

Always higher, from what I remember. My father was a mechanic for 40 years and bought SO for work. I remember as a kid my mother always complaining about the hundreds of dollars that he spent on tools for work all of the time and what a tab he would rack up at the SO truck.

 

[Sgtboz]

Somethings have not changed much as far as overall pricing strategy in last 11 years. When you buy Tool truck tools, you are paying for the driver's tires, fuel , health insurance, taxes , etc.

When you buy from Amazon you are paying for wages, benefits, dividends, bonuses, outer space trips...

 

[Wrench97]

Always higher, from what I remember. My father was a mechanic for 40 years and bought SO for work. I remember as a kid my mother always complaining about the hundreds of dollars that he spent on tools for work all of the time and what a tab he would rack up at the SO truck.

Wives rarely understand why the new tools are needed, sometimes it's easier to hustle a few side jobs to pay for them

 

[GrantCee]

When you buy from Amazon you are paying for wages, benefits, dividends, bonuses, outer space trips...

...divorces...

 

[dnschmidt]

Westinghouse was interesting. All hand tools were Snap-On and provided by the company. You went to the tool crib and told the attendant what you wanted and he handed it to you after running your tool crib credit card. BEST CREDIT CARD IN THE WORLD AND I NEVER HAD TO PAY THE BILL! LIFE WAS GOOD.

 

[ChefRex]

Westinghouse was interesting. All hand tools were Snap-On and provided by the company. You went to the tool crib and told the attendant what you wanted and he handed it to you after running your tool crib credit card. BEST CREDIT CARD IN THE WORLD AND I NEVER HAD TO PAY THE BILL! LIFE WAS GOOD.

Somehow that wouldn't work doing flat rate.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Somehow that wouldn't work doing flat rate.

Yeah, that would be nice if it didn't matter when things needed done, and completion of those items didn't effect your paycheck.

What works on an oil rig, a mechanics shop, a machine shop, and a tool room are all different.

 

[dnschmidt]

Guys, when he gave you the tool and ran your credit card YOU KEPT THE TOOL. You didn't have to give it back and I didn't. Might have missed that point.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Guys, when he gave you the tool and ran your credit card YOU KEPT THE TOOL. You didn't have to give it back and I didn't. Might have missed that point.

Must be nice. LOL

Makes zero sense not to just stock a tool room at that point instead of handing out free tools though.

 

[dstblj52]

Must be nice. LOL

Makes zero sense not to just stock a tool room at that point instead of handing out free tools though.

Cuts down on people taking tools home, and someone needs to stay update on inventory anyway

 

[Sumboodie]

Westinghouse was interesting. All hand tools were Snap-On and provided by the company. You went to the tool crib and told the attendant what you wanted and he handed it to you after running your tool crib credit card. BEST CREDIT CARD IN THE WORLD AND I NEVER HAD TO PAY THE BILL! LIFE WAS GOOD.

What decision? A good friend worked in the reactor shop in the 70s-late 80s says he never heard of that.

 

[dnschmidt]

I was at the R&D Center on Beulah Road in Churchill (Also known in Westinghouse circles as the Country Club as at one time we had a 9 hole employee golf course on the property). We worked on charge numbers related to our projects. As long as you had a valid charge number, and working on Defense Department contracts I ALWAYS had a valid charge number, you got whatever you wanted. Most R&D engineers and technicians had very well stocked toolboxes in their garages. I know I did.

 

[dnschmidt]

Here's a funny note. Amazon wants to convert the former site of the R&D Center to a distribution hub. This is being fought by the local community. My cash is on Amazon. What Jeff wants Jeff gets. Maybe my homeboy 2ndGearRubber who's a local can provide an update.

 

[Borntoolate]

Well I don't do mechanic work for a living. BUt at 57 I have done my share of wrenching.

I still have my socket set that I got for Christmas when I was like in 3rd grade. It works just fine. I have lost my 1/2" short socket though. Fortunately I still have the metric near equivalent socket so no biggy... most of the time. never saw the need to pay high dollar for some things.

Nicer things are nicer but sometimes that's it. Now if I was wrenching as a living everyday I might feel a bit different.

 

[Bubba Fett]

In a professional setting (like an automechanic's shop) Snap-on makes sense. For home-owner weekend warriors, there's no way to justify the expense. Part of the reason for fixing stuff myself is to save money. Snap-On's prices negate that and then some. But if I were doing work professionally, and needed the service, that would be a different story.

Instead, I go with other high quality brands, and search for deals. I also check the truck equivalent thread, since a lot of tools Snap-On offers are available from the OEM brand at much cheaper prices (Channellock pliers are a shining example). I also like industrial brands, which have similar or same quality - Williams being the obvious one for some tools.

I absolutely am not above buying tools second hand at pawn shops, yard sales, and even antique stores. I've found great stuff, sometimes for pocket change. They might be a bit rusty, but that's easily removable in most cases. Hell that's a hobby in of itself.

 

[M635_Guy]

In a professional setting (like an automechanic's shop) Snap-on makes sense. For home-owner weekend warriors, there's no way to justify the expense. Part of the reason for fixing stuff myself is to save money. Snap-On's prices negate that and then some. But if I were doing work professionally, and needed the service, that would be a different story.

Instead, I go with other high quality brands, and search for deals. I also check the truck equivalent thread, since a lot of tools Snap-On offers are available from the OEM brand at much cheaper prices (Channellock pliers are a shining example). I also like industrial brands, which have similar or same quality - Williams being the obvious one for some tools.

I absolutely am not above buying tools second hand at pawn shops, yard sales, and even antique stores. I've found great stuff, sometimes for pocket change. They might be a bit rusty, but that's easily removable in most cases. Hell that's a hobby in of itself.

I agree with all that. The only nuance I'd add is some people wrench as much for a distraction/hobby as the cost savings (that woufld probably describe me - started as cost but now is as much a hobby as anything). For me, I have several F80's in various lengths that I got as gifts to myself when jobs popped up where they'd be usesful. I have a smattering of Snap On stuff - e.g. my 3/8" torque wrench (hard to find one that had a flex head, and it makes plugs on my old BMW a lot easier, so I grabbed one on Craigslist for a pretty decent price), and even my fuse test light:

I've had that for a long time - can't even recall where I got it.

Anyway, my point is I've managed to create some level of self-justification to have some SO stuff, but I can't see any DIY'er going full SO for the garage.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Here's a funny note. Amazon wants to convert the former site of the R&D Center to a distribution hub. This is being fought by the local community. My cash is on Amazon. What Jeff wants Jeff gets. Maybe my homeboy 2ndGearRubber who's a local can provide an update.

That's a huge facility - as a Prime user I hope amazon gets their way! I entered automotive working at a tire shop about 10min from there.

 

[Bubba Fett]

I agree with all that. The only nuance I'd add is some people wrench as much for a distraction/hobby as the cost savings (that woufld probably describe me - started as cost but now is as much a hobby as anything). For me, I have several F80's in various lengths that I got as gifts to myself when jobs popped up where they'd be usesful. I have a smattering of Snap On stuff - e.g. my 3/8" torque wrench (hard to find one that had a flex head, and it makes plugs on my old BMW a lot easier, so I grabbed one on Craigslist for a pretty decent price), and even my fuse test light:

I've had that for a long time - can't even recall where I got it.

Anyway, my point is I've managed to create some level of self-justification to have some SO stuff, but I can't see any DIY'er going full SO for the garage.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with rewarding yourself for your hard work. With the money you save, you can afford to get nicer tools! (That's what I tell my wife.) I know that is a direct contradiction to what I said earlier, but I also think it's good to treat yo-self every now and then.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Snap-on started selling from trucks very early on. In the '30's I think.

The trucks came in the early 20's actually,

According to Snap-on, the trucks started during WWII. I delved into this a few years ago when I debunked the common and unfortunately seemingly irreversible erroneous myths in the vintage collecting community that Snap-on only made tools for the military and dropped the lifetime guarantees during WWII. Neither part of that is true. I've posted previously about this much more extensively on the Vintage Discussion Forum as well as on the collectingsnapon.com forum, if anyone wants to read even further. But you really only need to read these composite excerpts from pages 32 and 33 of "The Snap-on Story (1920-1960)", a bound pamphlet handed out to shareholders at the 1960 annual shareholders meeting.

 

[PoorUB]

Back around 1985 I bought a metric combination wrench set from Sears/Craftsman for $25. I used for a couple years, broke a couple wrenches and decided to buy a Snap-On set. The same sizes from SO were $225, so 9X the price. I haven't broken one yet!

 

[PoorUB]

I believe snap on was much more affordable when I first started working on cars. you do the math yourself, snap on increases their prices about 10% a year, inflation is 4-6%. I bought more snap on tools my first 3 years wrenching than I have the last 10 just for this reason.

I did and came up with roughly 4%. not even close to your 10%. So SO pricess were just slightly higher than inflation.

 

[bonneyman]

The driver makes all the difference.

Agreed!
Get Debbi Dunning from Home Improvement to drive the truck and I'll browse.....the tools!

 

[Lassen Forge]

Snap on has been around since the 1920's... and yes, they DID have "Snap-On trucks" back then - Model T Ford roadsters with a box on it... I have a picture of it I use for another group (Model T's), and if I can ever find a 1925 T roadster for a good price I want to build a dupe of that thing... Just because...

 

[chrismenke]

There's a lot of talk about the finance costs being built into the tool price. I'd have to agree, as I was able to buy most of my tools at close to half the price list cost by paying in cash on the spot.

My driver didn't put as much in his pocket, but he also knew he'd never have to chase me down. I haven't owned a shop or had a regular driver in a while, but I've still had some decent discounts walking on to the truck and paying that day.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

After reading through this a couple of conclusions show up.

Yes they are more expensive, but not that much. a surprise there.

Wages on the other hand haven't increased at the same rate. (We will see an adjustment with the current labour shortage )

SO book price is 3x that of Proto. Quality on that item was a wash, with maybe the edge going to Proto. So your base price, is and was always high.

I have 1/2"drive socket sets from over a 60 years of manufacturing dates. SO sockets were nicer than their American made name brand competition, SK,Wright,Proto, etc. ,. But now a lowly Mastercraft socket from a set of 400 tools at 70% off aren't that much worse, in fact they are decent sockets. Ratchets are garbage. The floor has been raised, but the ceiling hasn't been.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

and yes, they DID have "Snap-On trucks" back then

There are several photos of it being advertised - with other tools, on trucks in the 20s and 30s, which likely belonged to a hardware store or jobber, selling multiple mfgrs. Snap-on's founders sold other tools as Motor Tools Specialties. As far as I know, no record of the tools being sold out of the back, though, as part of a forward inventory, by licensed dealers, until wartime, as Snap-on's own pamphlet describes.

That would be an awesome repro project!