rburke65
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JPrato....how do you double seal you ver head doors? Thanks.
Waste oil heater?
- Thread starter Repsolracer22
- Start date
OP
Repsolracer22
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here's a crazy question ........... instead of the waste oil thing. couldn't i just install a normal 'house style' hvac system? yea it would be electric. but it definitely is virtually maintenance free and I wouldn't have to mess w oil. does anyone with a 2000-3000sq ft pole barn garage have one of these?
it would of course be heat AND ac. my plan is to insulate my 40x60 shop and keep the heat at 48-50 deg or so when im not inside of it in winter. but i have water in the bldg and other things that cant really be cold. so 48-50deg should be fine when im not in there. im assuming a decent 'house-style' hvac system would be fine? Air handler, outside unit, little vents on ceiling, etc etc.
it would of course be heat AND ac. my plan is to insulate my 40x60 shop and keep the heat at 48-50 deg or so when im not inside of it in winter. but i have water in the bldg and other things that cant really be cold. so 48-50deg should be fine when im not in there. im assuming a decent 'house-style' hvac system would be fine? Air handler, outside unit, little vents on ceiling, etc etc.
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Shop Specialties
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How much does electric cost in your area ?
OP
Repsolracer22
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6.577 cents/kWh
jacob_coulter
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You probably need to do a calculation about what your energy needs would be and compare the two costs, but honestly seeing all the maintenance required for an oil burner, I would think a small shop would be better with something like a heat pump and you just sell your used oil like you've been doing. Unless it's a huge difference in cost, I would go with the lower maintenance option and you also have the benefit of having AC in the summer with a heat pump.
I found this discussion interesting, it sounds like waste oil heaters make more sense in larger shop settings that have plenty of used oil on hand.
I was not aware they had so many additional issues regarding maintenance, filters, air compressors, metering pumps, chimney maintenance, rebuild kits, etc plus just the significant cost of the unit itself.
So if you were leaving it on full time in the winter, you'd be burning something like 700 gallons of oil per month? 1 gallon per hour x 24 hours x 30 days =720. Could your shop support that much oil? Depending on how long the winter season lasts, that's like 2,000 oil changes. Does your shop do that many oil changes per year?
Shop Specialties
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He would not burn 700 gallons a month to keep it 50*.
OP
Repsolracer22
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not exactly. if a normal place was open 8hrs a day, youd probably only have the waste oil heater ON for maybe 5hrs out of that. Assuming that's what would keep it at 65-70 deg. Thats 5 gallons a day. And at night and weekends, etc etc you would probably have it set at 50deg and it wouldnt even burn half that. So id say Id be in the 500-700 gallons for a 3 month period. Which isnt that bad, and I definitely have that amount.
But yes, the maintenance, soot/ashes, repair, 'dealing' with oil, etc etc etc isnt so great. Im just wondering if i got a heat pump HVAC setup if it would keep it at 45-50deg when im not in there and ramp up to 65 or so when i am ..without any problems or extra/backup source
Shop Specialties
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1 gallon of waste oil has 140,000+ BTU/gallon.
41 KWH = 140,000 BTU
41 X $ .065 = $ 2.66
You would have to spend $ 2.66 in electricity to get the same heat as 1 gallon waste oil you generate for free.
41 KWH = 140,000 BTU
41 X $ .065 = $ 2.66
You would have to spend $ 2.66 in electricity to get the same heat as 1 gallon waste oil you generate for free.
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jacob_coulter
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I was going off the "gallon an hour" estimate. Is that not accurate?
So maybe half a gallon an hour?
12 gallons x 30 days= 360 gallons per month x 3 months = 1080 gallons? Is that a fair estimate?
How many oil changes do you do per month?
So maybe half a gallon an hour?
12 gallons x 30 days= 360 gallons per month x 3 months = 1080 gallons? Is that a fair estimate?
How many oil changes do you do per month?
jacob_coulter
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Uh, no
it's $.065 per kw/h
so 41kw/h x .065 (per kw/h) = $2.67
If one gallon of used oil made the equivalent of $269 in electricity, everyone would be burning oil
Shop Specialties
Well-known member
Uh, no
it's $.065 per kw/h
so 41kw/h x .065 (per kw/h) = $2.67
If one gallon of used oil made the equivalent of $269 in electricity, everyone would be burning oil
You are correct, I should not try to do 3 things at once.
OP
Repsolracer22
Well-known member
and the compressor is used for the waste oil heater. that uses electricity to run and of course general wear & tear on your compressor. and SOUND from compressor.
and of course the cleaning/maintenance.etc etc etc .... plus an HVAC sys would have AC too!
and of course the cleaning/maintenance.etc etc etc .... plus an HVAC sys would have AC too!
OP
Repsolracer22
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if i went with an HVAC system, would it be better to use a heat pump or furnace?
Shop Specialties
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It only requires 2 CFM at 20 PSI which is very little air. If you went with optional (possibly free) on-board air you would still be under 20 amps @ 110 volt. The on board air comps Clean Burn use are very quiet and easily last 10,000+ hours.
Clean ash once a year and filters only need cleaned when they pull 10" of vacuum and it takes few minutes.
Federal tax credit of up to $ 1.80 per square foot for going waste oil.
What is the price of electricity going to do in the future ?
Todd.Brock
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Great discussion! I would say whichever route you choose, especially electric, consider investing in insulation!!!
jacob_coulter
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There's so many variables like the efficiency of the units, insulation, etc , but if you're estimating 5 gallons of oil per day in the winter if you used an oil heater, a back of the envelope calculation:
1 gallon of oil = $2.67 in electricity
5 gallons x $2.67 = $13.35 per day
$13.35 x 30 days = $400.50 per month
$400.50 x 3 months =
$1201.50 per winter season
If you can sell the waste oil at $1 a gallon, it looks a lot easier to go with the heat pump option and use that to pay the utility bill. But I'm sure there's applications where the waste oil heater makes more sense, usually electricity is a costly way to make heat.
1 gallon of oil = $2.67 in electricity
5 gallons x $2.67 = $13.35 per day
$13.35 x 30 days = $400.50 per month
$400.50 x 3 months =
$1201.50 per winter season
If you can sell the waste oil at $1 a gallon, it looks a lot easier to go with the heat pump option and use that to pay the utility bill. But I'm sure there's applications where the waste oil heater makes more sense, usually electricity is a costly way to make heat.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
For the small user, the issues are no where near what has been made out to be. The fuel consumption as you calculated it, it for a heater running full blast all the time. Put it on a thermostat and the fuel consumption will drop alot, probably by a third or more. Add insulation and it will help out also. The OP is in Maryland. I don't think it stays real cold all year up there. Colder than Jawja (redneck for Georgia) but not like Minnesota or the UP.
***
Without considering the compressed air, my heater only draws a little over 9 amps @ 120v. The compressed air consumption is minimal if you have a tight system that doesn't leak. I haven't finished it yet, but I built up a manifold with a solenoid operated valve suited for the flow and pressure, a air filter/water separator bowl, and a regulator. It is on a separate tap on the compressor tank, so I won't have to turn on the main air valve. I will just open a small 3/8 ball valve in the fall and close it in the spring. When the heater sends power to the fuel pump, it will also power the solenoid and allow air to the heater. This manifold is mounted at the compressor, which is 60 ft across the shop from the heater, and about 100 ft as the air tubing will be run.
Right now I have a jack leg temporary set up which is two 50 ft cheap air hoses ty-wrapped to building structure and conduits across the overhead, and I have to manually open the main ball valve on the air compressor to supply this. I need to run the elect supply and the pex from this manifold to the heater to finish the install.
Charles
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Charles (in GA)
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edit: I think you meant $0.06577 but not sure.
Thats a bill I'd like to see. Take your TOTAL bill, and divide it by the TOTAL Kw consumed, and lets see what you are REALLY paying. This will take into account the fixed fees, taxes, etc., and it truly representative of what you are paying.
My house for the month of September had a bill of $122.82 and a consumption of 875 kWh (total electric) and that works out to $0.1403 per kWh.
My shop (separate meter) had a bill of $34.10 and a kWh consumption of 185 giving a total cost per kWh of $0.1843 per kWh. Its higher because the fixed cost is the same as the house, but with lower consumption, the fixed cost is a larger part of the bill.
Charles
jacob_coulter
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But assuming he already has electricity to the shop, most are those fixed costs are already incurred. At least my utility bill works that way, even if I use zero electricity, I still have to pay those fees.
So the additional use of electricity from a heat pump, you can probably get pretty close by getting the cost per kWh and calculating from there.
If the shop had no electricity and you had to run a new utility meter to the shop, than I would agree there are additional costs beyond the kWh rate.