l_bilyk
Well-known member
These kits are on sale this week at canadian tire. Will I be OK using these kits or should I get the solvent-based kit?
Water-based 2 part rutoleum epoxy
- Thread starter l_bilyk
- Start date
ron in sc
Well-known member
The type you use and the amount of money you spend can have a lot to do with how durable the finish will be. So the real answer is maybe.
The prep you do and how you use the floor will have as much to do as the money you spend. I used the water based 2 part epoxy system and it has held up fine for well over 4 years in an active project oriented shop. Some gouges that also took out chunks of concrete too and one tire lift spot. The lift spot was in a spot where the concrete was almost glossy and I should have prepped it better. Just an internet opinion. Is it better than the $$$ stuff? No. Is is 1/2 or 3/4 as good as the stuff that costs 8 times as much? Easily so. It gets the job done. I have an easy to clean floor with no oils soaking into the cement and no cement dust to deal with. It is not a showroom floor but it is also not a showroom.
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No problem! That bit of cloth means a lot to me. Some folks have their hearts in the right place but don't know the rules of displaying our flag. I saw one tied by one corner to the back of a dump truck a couple days ago. Well about 1/2 of one as it was ragged out and filthy. I bugged the driver in a nice way about it at a light.Thank you for hanging your flag the correct way!
I fly a 24X38 footer at work. When I started working there the only one they had was too small for the pole, dirty and starting to tater. I now have 2 that I rotate and have cleaned and re-hemmed as needed. They are over $1000 each and last 6 to 10 months fly time off an on before they are retired. One of the bean counters questioned the bucks I was spending on flags and maintenance, I pushed back swift and hard and it was never mentioned again.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
That's awesome that they let you fly those huge flags!
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
Our Congressman, Diane Watson, is about as worthless as they get. And on capital hill that's saying something. But she, and every other congressman, is good for something, and that is being a great source for high quality Made in the USA American Flags.
Pretty much every office has them available. They have 100% cotton flags with full embroidery, really beautiful, but not the best for outdoor use. And they have nylon flags also. You can order ones flown over the Capitol, or not. We've ordered several and the receivers have always appreciated them.
Pretty much every office has them available. They have 100% cotton flags with full embroidery, really beautiful, but not the best for outdoor use. And they have nylon flags also. You can order ones flown over the Capitol, or not. We've ordered several and the receivers have always appreciated them.
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When I went to visit my Dad up in Mass I had to politely tell him that his flag was the wrong way. I'm with you on that one, flag means a ton to me as well. I can't fathom the size of a 24 x 38 foot flag! That is HUGE! Surprisingly the place that I usually used to see with the biggest flags was at Burger King of all places. I definitely want to get a flag pole installed once I get everything done around here and get some extra money.
I bought a couple flags when I was in Iraq that I was going to take with me on missions, and have "certified as flying over hostile enemy territory during combat missions", but I never remembered until it was too late. I'll get it done next time though.
I think a flag is the first thing that's going up in my garage.
Not sure if you've seen this video. I want to buy this guy a beer.
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I bought a couple flags when I was in Iraq that I was going to take with me on missions, and have "certified as flying over hostile enemy territory during combat missions", but I never remembered until it was too late. I'll get it done next time though.
I think a flag is the first thing that's going up in my garage.
Not sure if you've seen this video. I want to buy this guy a beer.
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I'm thinking of getting it too. I'm just not sure how much I should buy.
My garage floor is approx. 11X20. I believe only 1kit will be enough for my surface.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
I think a flag is the first thing that's going up in my garage.
I talked to Fred on Saturday and finalized the order...I decided on the ole black/blue/white on gray...can't go wrong with it, and couldn't find a combo that I liked better.He said it was supposed to have shipped out today, so I guess I better get my *** crackin' out in the garage.
hewl35
Member
I think a flag is the first thing that's going up in my garage.
How about "Don't tread on Me".
canmorechef
Member
Where you able to pick some up. The Canadian tire here in Airdrie sold out in 3 hours they told me. Let us know how it turns out if you get some.
e-tek
Well-known member
I just "happened" to see this stuff in CT after months of seeing extremely pricy stuff.
The shelf was already empty of the grey, but they had Tan -luckily, I asked them to check the Wharehouse and they found two kits of the grey.
Nows here's the part I find odd: The kits say: One car garage up to 23 sq Meter coverage (about 500 Sq Ft). Where I'm from 500 Sq ft is a two car garage. I have a 2 car garage that's about 500 SQ ft and a 24x38 shop, or nearly 1000 sq ft. I'm hoping the two kits cover the shop (1000 sq ft), but I wouldn't want to start and not have enough!!
DO you think it'll cover??
The shelf was already empty of the grey, but they had Tan -luckily, I asked them to check the Wharehouse and they found two kits of the grey.Nows here's the part I find odd: The kits say: One car garage up to 23 sq Meter coverage (about 500 Sq Ft). Where I'm from 500 Sq ft is a two car garage. I have a 2 car garage that's about 500 SQ ft and a 24x38 shop, or nearly 1000 sq ft. I'm hoping the two kits cover the shop (1000 sq ft), but I wouldn't want to start and not have enough!!
DO you think it'll cover??
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
That brings up an excellent question... "What constitutes a two car garage?" Well, we don't pay taxes for nothing (so we're told). Our esteemed Department of Energy, when they're not busy developing the next biggest thermonuclear bomb, researches more mundane conundrums, such as garage size definitions.
You've heard of their "Manhattan Project"? Well here's a recently unclassified excerpt from their equally challenging "Joe's Garage Project":
"Garages are very standardized in size and have not changed over time. Based on previous RECS, it is known that a one-car garage averages 250 square feet in size, a two-car garage is 400 square feet, and a three-car garage is 600 square feet in size."
More top-secret details can be found here: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/recs/sqft-measure.html#sqft_append_a
I'm hoping the two kits cover the shop (1000 sq ft), but I wouldn't want to start and not have enough!!
DO you think it'll cover??
That's easier to answer... If the liquid has a low enough viscosity, and one can work quickly, and the surface is not too porous, a gallon could coat at least a 43,000 square foot shop.
A more challenging question is "can two kits offer your floors the protection and other benefits that you need?" I' haven't worked with that particular product lately, so I can't say for certain. Especially since I don't know how much material is in a kit.
But we do know this:
[EGGHEAD FACT] A gallon of liquid will coat 1,604 square feet to a depth of 1 mil when it's wet. If it has solvents or water, those will dissipate as the product cures, so your final coating depth will be proportionally thinner. For example - if a coating that's only 75% solids goes on at 4 mils thick when it's applied will be only 3 mils thick when it finally cures. [/EGGHEAD FACT]
Which brings us to yet another question: "How thick should my coating be?" The answer depends on many factors. Wolverine Coatings recommends a minimum of 5 mils for the primer coat, 12 mils for the body coat, and 5 mils for the clear coat. For certain situations it would be prudent to use more material.
One of the benefits of an epoxy floor coating is its shock absorption, so if you work in an environment where things fall a lot, you might want the additional protection a thicker body coat provides. If there's a lot of stuff being dragged along the floor, more clear coat might be in order.
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e-tek
Well-known member
So how many gallons would that be? I've rarely seen an Epoxy system with primer and I've seen posts recommending no primer...maybe I should try to buy 2 more kits and just pour it all out??
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AlphaGarage
Well-known member
Different products have different formulations, you really need to consult the manufacturer. But I would venture that every industrial epoxy floor coating system has a prime. The primer usually flows better, has stronger adhesion properties, and has some flexibility, whereas the pigmented top coat has more impact resistance.
To figure out how much material you need to result a given thickness you need to know what % of the product is solids and what % is solvents or water.
In your case you have about 1,000 sqft, the 2 gallons rustoleum epoxy will go down 3.2 mil wet, and if it were 100% solids it would cure to 3.2 mil also. But it's not 100% solids, I believe it has water in it, but I don't know the ratio. If it's only 80% solids it will cure to 2.56 mil, if it is only 50% solids it will cure to only 1.6 mil, etc.
WolverineCoatings
Well-known member
It's 50% solids... So... it would cure to about 1.6 mils... You would need to put on multiple coats to get any kind of lasting protection.
As far as primer goes...
When I was a kid I saw a commercial about the GI Joe with the Kung FU grip: http://www.hasbro.com/gijoe/kungfugrip/default.cfm?page=kungfugrip
Man, I thought that was the COOLEST thing. I REALLY wanted one of those. You could fight your big brother with one of those and flip him over your head. After about a year, after all of my friends had them, and after I was slightly mentally scarred from not getting one (lol...), I got one! This was the point where I learned that advertisments make things out to look ALOT cooler than they really are.
Most people aren't really knowledgeable about paint forumulations, but... most people have made (or at least seen) pancake batter. It's like paint in a way. If you start out with water it is very thin. If you poured it out on your garage floor the water would just soak into the pours of the concrete. BUT, if you added filler like pancake batter that water gets thicker. And, if you pour the pancake batter on your garage floor it's just going to kind of sit on the surface because it's too thick to really soak in.
With paint, when you add fillers and pigments it's alot like adding the pancake batter. Those things impeded the ability of the resins to penetrate the pours and then get hard in the pours. With waterborne systems you also have the ill effects of shrinkage as the pours that are filled must give up part of their filling to evaporation of the water. In other words, your fully filled concrete pours become less filled because the product shrinks due to the evaporation of the water (and/or solvent).
Companies market the 'Primerless' system because they know that inexperienced people don't want to tackle anything complicated. So, they advertise that they can have performance with less work. I know that I'm not the only one in here who gets burned by the people who oversell their products. It's called Lying! You just don't get a Mercedes when you pay for a Kia.
It's just not as cool as they make it sound on the commercial.
As far as primer goes...
When I was a kid I saw a commercial about the GI Joe with the Kung FU grip: http://www.hasbro.com/gijoe/kungfugrip/default.cfm?page=kungfugrip
Man, I thought that was the COOLEST thing. I REALLY wanted one of those. You could fight your big brother with one of those and flip him over your head. After about a year, after all of my friends had them, and after I was slightly mentally scarred from not getting one (lol...), I got one! This was the point where I learned that advertisments make things out to look ALOT cooler than they really are.
Most people aren't really knowledgeable about paint forumulations, but... most people have made (or at least seen) pancake batter. It's like paint in a way. If you start out with water it is very thin. If you poured it out on your garage floor the water would just soak into the pours of the concrete. BUT, if you added filler like pancake batter that water gets thicker. And, if you pour the pancake batter on your garage floor it's just going to kind of sit on the surface because it's too thick to really soak in.
With paint, when you add fillers and pigments it's alot like adding the pancake batter. Those things impeded the ability of the resins to penetrate the pours and then get hard in the pours. With waterborne systems you also have the ill effects of shrinkage as the pours that are filled must give up part of their filling to evaporation of the water. In other words, your fully filled concrete pours become less filled because the product shrinks due to the evaporation of the water (and/or solvent).
Companies market the 'Primerless' system because they know that inexperienced people don't want to tackle anything complicated. So, they advertise that they can have performance with less work. I know that I'm not the only one in here who gets burned by the people who oversell their products. It's called Lying! You just don't get a Mercedes when you pay for a Kia.
It's just not as cool as they make it sound on the commercial.
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In that case, based on your experience, would any type of primer make the Rostelum a "better" product or longer lasting? According to your post, and I sort of agree, no matter what system you use, you should always primer the surface.
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
Most manufacturers run extensive checks to make certain that their products that will eventually be used in tandem are, in fact, compatible. But I don't think they take the time to check compatibility with all the other products available. Although the odds are high that most epoxies will work with most primers, it's probably in your best interest to stick with one brand.