Water heater shorted element

[PCustoms]

Noticed the shower was a bit cool yesterday and today, so figured I better check the h2o heater tonight.

Top element seems fine, about 13 ohms between terminals and infinite to tank.

Bottom element reads about 8 ohms to the tank.

1. Why didn't this trip the breaker?
2. How can I bypass the lower element until I can get a new one? Just nut the wires?

 

[driftpin]

Noticed the shower was a bit cool yesterday and today, so figured I better check the h2o heater tonight.

Top element seems fine, about 13 ohms between terminals and 0 to tank.

Bottom element reads about 8 ohms to the tank.

1. Why didn't this trip the breaker?
2. How can I bypass the lower element until I can get a new one? Just nut the wires?

I assume you mean to use wire nuts to isolate each wire to the burned-out element?

I'm gonna let an electrician answer. I know what I'd do. One way to approach this is to take notice of your next change-out, and remove the element(s) for possible re-use, just make sure they are the same value as what's in there, when one fails. I keep one or two next-to the water heater for the possibility.

 

[PCustoms]

Yes, I think I can disconnect the lower element and just wire nut the wires.

Not real sure what you're getting at with "change out" and the rest of your post. Never had electric units and don't intend to much longer.

No clue on the history of this unit, came with the house and is tagged as owned by CVPS, which was bought out by my current utility in 2011. It is a reduced electric rate, but I intend on getting rid of this behemoth and swith in to gas when I finish the electrical upgrade this spring.

Just need something to keep it going (safely) until I can determine if the utility pays for a plumber to swap the element or if I need to hit the plumbing supply Saturday for a new element. 90F is better then 40F!

 

[Jim greengo]

Drain the tank and pull the element out. Keeping crud flushed out of bottom of water heaters is important,especially electric ones.
Element will bake itself to death inside of the sediment.

 

[PCustoms]

I know what needs to be done.

Just checking if I can disconnect the lower element, cap the wires, and turn it all on until I can get the new element tomorrow or Saturday.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Noticed the shower was a bit cool yesterday and today, so figured I better check the h2o heater tonight.

Top element seems fine, about 13 ohms between terminals and 0 to tank.

Bottom element reads about 8 ohms to the tank.

1. Why didn't this trip the breaker?
2. How can I bypass the lower element until I can get a new one? Just nut the wires?

did you mean infinite to tank?

0 to tank would mean you have continuity to the tank.

 

[PCustoms]

did you mean infinite to tank?

0 to tank would mean you have continuity to the tank.

Yes, meant infinite. I've been out of it this week which is why I'm questioning if disconnecting the lower element is safe, or how it being shorted didn't trip anything.

I pulled the wires and capped them for now. Looks like about $15 for an element, just have to get to FW Webb before 4pm tomorrow.

BTW did some reasearch, this is a cement lined tank with no anode.

 

[TRWham]

It did not trip because it did not draw enough current. At 240 V, you would see about 30 A across 8 ohms. Circuit breakers only respond to current. They do not have any ability to sense a short to ground or line to line except via high current. A GFCI breaker should have tripped under the circumstances, but a standard breaker would not until the current exceeded its rating for enough time.

 

[Longhair]

I know what needs to be done.

Just checking if I can disconnect the lower element, cap the wires, and turn it all on until I can get the new element tomorrow or Saturday.

The lower element does the majority of the heating, just the top element isn't going to do much. Both elements can be changed out in a few minutes.

 

[PCustoms]

The lower element does the majority of the heating, just the top element isn't going to do much. Both elements can be changed out in a few minutes.

Well the top element got me through the day with warm enough water to shower.

Picked up a new element yesterday afternoon, of course the heater (vaughn) needs the $40 one, not the cheap $10 one. Luckily they had a single element in stock.

Started draining it at 8am this morning, new the slow trickle was a bad sign. The mineral build up was well over the element, and the whole mess came apart as I pried it out. Had to saw it back and forth while using an air nozzle to create a void around it.

Still digging out sediment, no way I will get it all out. Hope is to get it low enough to get the heater through to spring, when I will be swapping in a gas unit as planned all along. I woud bite the bullet and do it now but obviously I need to test/treat the water before going on demand, and I'd rather not have to cut the vent in the winter.

By the way, build date on this is September 1985, so it is original to the house. Looks like the element had been changed once before, so this is probably 15 years worth of buildup.

 

[HoosierMark]

Change the water heater out. You are living on borrowed time. Return the element and get a new heater. I have never been able to put a new element in when they are full of lime and I have tried numerous times. I have 27 apartments that have water with high lime content. I end up replacing the heaters about every ten years. I finally gave up trying to replace an element years ago. You can get the element out but getting a new one in is my downfall. Maybe if it was in my own house but even then I have better things to do with my life then screw with getting lime out of an old water heater.

 

[Bretny]

If your digging out sediment i would start keeping an eye out for a water heater sale. You can run just one element but its less than ideal.

 

[PCustoms]

Well I pulled about 5 gallons of crude out the bottom through the element hole. The sediment level is about 1-2" below the element, so I put it all back in and filled it up. Shower last night was about 95 degrees, as it only had an hour before the POCO killed the service (goes off during peak times). This morning shower is back to a toasty 115F.

I figure this bought me time to figure out long term plan. As I mentioned it has been to switch to gas all along, just need to get the logistics workednout. Had de-prioritized it as there were more pressing renovation issues and the heater had been working fine.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

so the element wasnt bad afterall? It was just the crud causing it to short to the tank?

 

[PCustoms]

so the element wasnt bad afterall? It was just the crud causing it to short to the tank?

Pretty sure ithat was bad. I did damage to it pulling it out (in 2 or 3 pieces) but the outer tube was split and it was full of finer sediment, while what was in the tank wa's much larger.

There was a few chunks larger than a basball....

 

[Bretny]

Isnt there a drain on the bottom of the tank to get the sediment out?

 

[mbear]

At this point , if you open that drain it will probably never seat again .

 

[PCustoms]

Isnt there a drain on the bottom of the tank to get the sediment out?

There's a drain, but it is too high to get everything, and too small to let marble sized (and larger) chunks out.

At this point , if you open that drain it will probably never seat again .

When I bought the house it was dripping, so I screwed a garden hose shutoff onto it. In hindsight it probably had crud in it from when the house had been winterized.

 

[PCustoms]

A little perspective on what it looked like

 

[OccupantRJ]

Normal around this area, I have a bent and slant cut piece of pvc pipe that I duct tape to the end of my wet vac hose and use to **** the corn flakes out during an element change. If you keep that sediment out of it, the heater will keep on chugging. So far, it has been a five year event in this house.

 

[sberry]

I change them out too and also have a bent emt I adapt to the vac hose and can get them really clean. Adding another valve to the drain works. If they drain slow can hook air to the system and push it along. I have unions on top of one and can even unhook in a couple of minutes, tip it at an angle to help vac it all out.
Been there, done this.

 

[Bretny]

Gesus thats alot of flakes! Carry on sir. You look like your getting it out.