Water leak problem...help?!

[HunterDan]

Well I just got the house. When we did the home inspection, everything was dry and it Rained that whole day.

So fast forward to yesterday, we are prepping the garage to paint, and notice there is water coming down the wall, starting about half way down. Now it rained every day last week, totaling about 3". Could that excessive amount of rain just be causing this to seep in? Or do I have a problem?

The backyard is a hill, it's then level up to the house, then slopes down the side of the house. The whole side of that yard is very wet, just to much rain?

The pictures show best. The paper towels on the floor were there all day (about 11 hours) so that's what came in in that time span

Any help here would be graciously appriciated.

Thanks!

Dan

 

[HoosierBuddy]

IMHO any water getting in a house is a problem. How much of a problem? That's hard to say.

It's almost certainly ground water coming through the wall. They make many systems to combat that, most if not all would require you to dig the wall out completely to install.

Before going to all that trouble, do what you can to:

1. Verify all gutters, downspouts, and drains are open and working properly. (ESPECIALLY CHECK IF THERE'S A WEEPING TILE/DRAIN ALONG THAT FOUNDATION THAT MIGHT BE CLOGGED?)
2. Verify that the ground is sloped away from the foundation wall to keep water from pooling against it, or using it as the side of a channel to drain along the slope.

Good Luck!

Phil

 

[Chloe Taylor]

Well best of luck in fixing the problem you have got your self involved in. An advise as to which i can can share in making your life much easier is to go and call for a plumber.....

 

[Honda guy]

My brother in law had the same problem with water seeping through a cinder block wall, into his basement. He cured it by digging away all the dirt against that wall. Washed and dried the wall. Applied a thick coat of sealer that he bought at Lowes (it was thick and black), and then covered the whole wall with thick plastic. Also, he directed all his rain gutters away from that area. A lot of work but it cured the problem.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

... It's almost certainly ground water coming through the wall...

Really? I thought it looks like surface water from the pics.

If it were me, after making sure drains are not clogged, I'd install another French drain about 6 feet uphill of the house. Dig the trench about 4 feet deep. Line the sides & bottom of the trench with weed fabric to keep the silt out. Install perf pipe in the bottom & drain to daylight. In the area between the French Drain & the uphill side of the house, I'd lay a concrete walkway with an additive to the concrete that makes it water proof (so water doesn't soak through the concrete into the soil underneath), with a couple surface drains.

 

[tdkkart]

Looks to me like a classic case of "what the hell do you expect??"
Stand at the bottom of a hill and you're gonna get hit by everything that comes down, water included.

That being the case, whatever you can do to relieve the pressure of the water next to the foundation is gonna help. As others have said, make sure all existing drainage is working as well as possible, and then add more as needed. Another across the back of the house, and one down the side beside the suspect garage wall.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Geez.

I just want to ask you how did you ever assume that a cinder block wall will hold back all of that berm?

That is an extremely bad installation, and some SOB sold it to you.
That sux.
The problem here is that you have suface water shed and sub surface water shed.
Any water that rolls off the berm generally will not get into the ground, then you have the water that gets into the soil.

Once the water gets into the soil to a point of total saturation....the soil itself becomes a liquid and will now move.
This moving soil mass will exert the combined weight of the soils and ALL water absorbed into the soils.
Do you think that this cinder block wall will hold back tons of wet moving soils.

No it will not.
Eventually the soils will fracture the structure of that wall and shift it.
It would take a hell of a lot more structure as well as proper ground drainage to hold this wall back.
I do not see how putting in drain tiles will save this situation as the weight of the whole berm will eventually shift towards this garage. The wall will buckle, you would have a tough time holding it back if it were 12" thick concrete.
Before I spent any money playing around trying to drain water or shore this in any way, I would have a soils and structures company look at this. See what they think can be done. They may tell you some bad news, or they may have a solution.

 

[58Yeoman]

Are there rain gutters on the backside of the house...I can't see in the pic? If not, add them, and drain down the hill. A lot of water comes off roofs, and it needs a place to go away from the house.

 

[hwinch5]

I'm curious about those bricks and their part in this problem?? Good luck and let us know how you remedy this.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

I would bet the wall has a bow there also. And it looks like this is not the first time.

Look for sealer in the joint.

Check to see if you state has any buyes protection plan. So have 30 days for major defects.


Mines getting dug up next month. Good Luck!

Capt. Chrysler

 

[Frank The Plumber]

They have a technique now where the intact soils can be bonded with a polymer to make a physical barrier, if not for this berm I would suggest that. But still going with getting a soils review.

 

[Zeke]

Look around the base of the block wall for any drainage that might have been installed during construction and make sure it's clear. You may have to run a rooter up the line to clear it all out. I'd be surprised it there isn't something already there.

You might consider some additional slope work like a terrace and short retaining wall up the slope so you can excavate some of the fill behind the wall. Frank is right, there is a lot of soil there holding water.

Most severe treatment will require exposing the entire wall, waterproofing and installing the French drain. See if you can capitalize on what you may already have and minimize your expenses so you can spend more on the garage interior!

 

[Jackfre]

Your problem is the bump out for the door. I had exactly the same problem with my old house. In my case it was the concrete bump out for the fireplace. Normally all good, but with sustained rain it would seep. I put in a french drain with gravel, cloth, the works and still it would no relieve the total problem. Mitigate-yes, eliminate-no. I piped around the bump out. it did not work. Pretty sure you are looking at the same thing.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Thought about this situation for a bit.
The biggest problem that I see with this situation is not the seepage, it's not the fact that the one half of the structure abutts the soil.
The problem that I see here is the fact that the hill continues.
The hill continues to gain elevation far past the height of the grade at the structure.
This is a problem because as this soil loads with water it creates a pressure column of water even higher than the grade creating even more pressure.
This is the part that scares me the most about this situation.
What exactly is the soil consistency of that hill? How stable is it? If it gets enough water in it, it will shift.
That hill side may need to be terraced with another retaining wall to keep the forces under control.
You would then drainage the flat spot you could create at the back of the structure.
I would sure feel better if I saw a few large stones in that hill.

 

[03ranger]

Obviously none of us would expect the water issue when purchasing an older home, we all expect some minor issues purchasing an older home, but not major wall drainage issue. Looking at the block wall, can you detect any earlier water damage or leakage? Did the previous owner try and cover up the issue with a fresh coat of paint or…

First thing first, document, document, document, this includes pictures and more pictures. Some states require full disclose of any issues when selling a house, such as prior water damage, mold issues and any remediation to correct these types of issues. Does the state, or county that you in require such? Check with the escrow company to determine if all documents were filed.

Does your house have warranty that came with the real estate deal, if so contact the warranty company? Was the house sold “as is”, or was it "implied" that everything was in good shape? Before trying to “fix” the problem, remember to, look at your options be proceeding. Best of luck

 

[Kevin54]

I wouldn't do anything with the garage as far as painting until you check with the Realtor about a disclosure statement and check on the warranty of the home. If the previous owners knew about it leaking and did not disclose it, then they will be liable for repairs or possibly have to take the house back.

By the way the pic looks, it looks like you also may have had some water staining at the back corner of the garage too. How fresh does the paint look to be on the walls? Fairly recent or maybe a few years old. Does the floor look like it has been stained before from water coming in and across? If you take a mason bit and drill a small hole in the bottom core of the block I would imagine that you would have a fairly good stream shooting across the garage from the hydraulic pressure of the water in the block. The white paint on the walls may be something like UGL or similar paint to seal the block from water which only works to a certain extent.

To remedy the problem would be to dig around the perimeter of the foundation, seal the foundation, add a waterproof membrane, tile, stone, then backfill. Another way to do it, and you would have to see which is more cost effective, is to contact a company that waterproofs basements. What they do is cut inside of the foundation, knock holes in the bottom core of the block, dig a trench around the perimeter, tile, gravel, membrane, then concrete over that. The holes in the bottom blocks relieve the water pressure and basically let the water drain to the tile. Just don't shortcut it by adding more waterproofing paint. With enough water whatever is on there now will be pushed off eventually taking whatever is on top of that with it.

They also make a perimeter drain that is surface mounted. You drill a hole in the core of the block and piece of surface mounted channel is sealed to the block and floor and routed to a sump pit to be pumped out. In your case you may be able to just have it exit out somewhere since your floor is basically at ground level.

So you have a few alternatives to go with. Unfortunately none of them are a real cheap fix although the surface mounted channel may be the cheapest of the three.

And as everyone else has stated, make sure your rear gutters are directioned away from the house. With the amount of hill that you have behind you, you could dig a trench deep enough to bury a piece of pvc drain tile down through the side yard and have it exit at the bottom of the hill. Then add a coupling at the edge of the foundation to drop you downspout into.

I also noticed in this pic....what are the two holes to the left of the paper towels and on the mortar joint at the first course up from the floor? Do you get any water coming out of those?

 

[HunterDan]

Thanks for all the help guys. I contacted the realtor and she is looking into it. As for the two holes, to tell you the truth, I'm not sure what they are. I will look at them tommoriw and let you know for sure, but the water only seemed to be coming from were it's stained a few courses up

 

[59 wagon man]

similar to what kevin54 said we would cut back the slab about a foot dig it out lay insome gravel and a 4" perf pipe direct all the pipe to a sump pump pit and pump it outside or to a drain. before we put the concrete back we would sparingly nail in a 1" x 4" to be level with the finished floor. once the concrete dried we would rip out the 1" x 4" leaving a channel all around the slab to keep the water off the slab. I haven't done this in 25 yrs , maybe now there is a foam boaard or something easier

 

[Thruxton]

similar to what kevin54 said we would cut back the slab about a foot dig it out lay insome gravel and a 4" perf pipe direct all the pipe to a sump pump pit and pump it outside or to a drain. before we put the concrete back we would sparingly nail in a 1" x 4" to be level with the finished floor. once the concrete dried we would rip out the 1" x 4" leaving a channel all around the slab to keep the water off the slab. I haven't done this in 25 yrs , maybe now there is a foam boaard or something easier

We had exactly the same problem in a house built in 1910 with a poured concrete basement wall. The water pressure at times was actually great enough to cause the stream to break off the surface of the wall. We tried the solution above but it was inadequate, and we ended up digging out the entire foundation to seal the wall and install both french drains and new drain lines. Because of the location we had to file an environmental impact statement, and because of terrain all the soil had to be loaded on to dump trucks with a placer and then hauled to another location for storage before the fill. So this scenario can turn into a nightmare.

But wait, there's more. We had complained to the city about this and asked whether there wasn't a leak in the mains on the hill above us, because there was a spring in the middle of the road (coming up periodically through the asphalt) above our house. Oh no they said, but two years later they had to dig said main up for repair of a major leak. But in the interim we were dry as a bone, so the drain solution works. But it is good to know where the water is coming from, it may not be just normal ground water depending on your situation.

So you can see this can turn into a nightmare, good luck with your situation and I'll be following this thread for sure, so please keep us updated if you can.

 

[tdkkart]

I wouldn't do anything with the garage as far as painting until you check with the Realtor about a disclosure statement and check on the warranty of the home. If the previous owners knew about it leaking and did not disclose it, then they will be liable for repairs or possibly have to take the house back.

Really?? WTF??

Go back to my post above.
It's a concrete block wall that's underground with a massive hill draining right against the back side of the building. Who in their right mind would look at this situation and not expect a leak?? This is gonna leak during rainy periods just like a sewage treatment plant is gonna stink when the wind is from the right direction, that's just the way it is.
Like Frank and a couple others have implied, a little bit of trickling water is the least of the possible problems.

All the home inspections and disclosures in the world will not make an old poorly executed home perfect for the new owners.

 

[rieferman]

Is it possible that the walls are thicker than they appear? (i.e. can you do an exporatory dig in a few spots to see what is under the soil near the foundation?) I can't imagine a builder thinking one course of cinder blocks, even with a french drain, would be sufficient to hold back that much hill.

I really hope you get some good news on this.

On the other hand, how old is the house? If that building has been there for a long time, and it's surely rained this hard at least a few times before, it could be that we're all worrying over nothing (if it ain't broken yet, it may not ever break). It may just be a clogged drainage pipe or similar.

 

[HunterDan]

The house was built in 89. I have 2 ideas of what may be a cause. I'll take sons pictures to tonight.

1. The bump out for the garage side door. The water may be getting "dammed" up behind that, not draining properly, and forcing itself in the block.

2. The garage roof in the rear of the house is about a foot off the ground. There's one long gutter which is angled to the side of the hill where the leak is. It drains from the spout into a black plastic drain which I believe goes underground "not sure where it comes out yet).

I'm most likely going to dig it up this weekend and see what I'm working with. There has to be some kind of draining system in place because the back wall of the garage is almost completely buried, and no leaks at all on that wall (knock on wood)

Wil update tonight

 

[HunterDan]

Ok well I guess I'm going to start digging. The base of the floor all the way around was very damp. The back wall of the garage didn't have water on it, but it had a real greasy feel when I wiped my hand across the wall.
Here's more pictures, I'm now scared to death the whole back wall of the house is this way.

The last pic is about where the leak is, I'm assuming they put the brick there for some reason?


Would it be ok if I dug down, waterproof the wall/fix crack/etc, install a French drain, then fill the hole thing with gravel?

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I have never seen a home built into a hill in this manor.
Does it snow where you live?

You have a bunch of goofy things going on here that may contribute to a leaking wall.

First;
This downspout is not attached to the home correctly.
The water can roll off of the shingle and behind the gutter, possibly finding it's way into the top course of block. The gutter needs to be reworked so as to shed water into the gutter.
You have a bit of shingle damage but most likely not enough to leak.
This downspout into the ground thing sux. I would dig that up and run green non holed SDR 35 poly tube with long sweeps and 45's so it can be rodded and route that off of the elevation to lower grade.
This coating you have that looks like stucco is a hide it situation. Most likely there was some deterioration of the weather coating on the block so some one did a pig job to make it look better/ It don't look better to me, tossing bricks there and promoting creeping charlie and weeds is not a fix.
I think I would excavate a bit in that spot to see what the wall looks like down a foot or so.
A lot of times a bitumin product is used to seal a wall, after a few years the microbes eat this tar and it starts to weep through.
If it were mine I would do these other things first as they are less expensive.
It is possible that the wall is loading with water from above and filling the block cavity.
Where the heck would the water exit?
There are no weep holes or provisions for drainage in the event the cavity fills.
I don't want to think about how easy it is for water to get in the block wall with a foot of snow there.

Oh, as if there aren't enough things to consider.
Thermal sweating.
What the hell is thermal sweating?
So you have a wall, behind the wall is moisture ladden soil, the temperature of the soil may be 50 degrees, thus the wall temperature will be 50 degrees, it goes up to 80 degrees and gets humid, well ,the wall will sweat like a toilet, especially lower.
Hopefully there is foam or an insulation on the block on the exterior. It could help.

 

[KEH]

There's just one downspout for that gutter? Part of the problem may be the gutter overflowing.

In the pic where you moved the bricks I think I see black "waterproffing" on the walls.

Looking on the bright side, you will have a well insulated house, warm in winter, cool in summer.

Good luck.

KEH

 

[HunterDan]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm gonna dig up that spot tommorow and see what I can find. Will update again tommorow.

 

[pauls340]

Dan, There is no cheap or easy fix for your situation. If you choose to get a bottle of Jack Daniels and stick a screwdriver into that wall, make sure you are standing off to the side. Sorry, I had to throw that in since I have seen many a homeowner do that. Your cinderblock wall is full of water. Your best option is to remove the dirt and properly seal the outside or positive side of the wall. Don't waste a dollar on ANY product for the inside wall until the outside is fixed. After that is fixed, drill several holes into the bottom of the interior wall and get a mop. Good luck.