Water Pooling In Front Yard; Leak?

[D45]

Called six local places today, no one wanted to even look at the job

I have a list of four more places to call

The water district said if its between the street and the buffalo box, its not my problem

Between the house and the box, will be my responsibility

I called 811 Diggers, to have the property and underground utilities marked tomorrow

 

[D45]

If nothing more, after the yard is marked, I am going to bring out the shovel and start digging myself

 

[D45]

The water district vice president said he can turn off the buried buffalo box, but also said then I would have contaminated water to deal with?

 

[red61cj5]

Contaminated by what? Does the box have a purifier in it? (sarcasm)

 

[pstnbly]

Contaminated by what? Does the box have a purifier in it? (sarcasm)

There is a breach in a sanitary water system. As long as it is pressurized contaminates won't enter. Once the curb stop is closed pressure will bleed off and reach an equilibrium. once the equilibrium is reached contaminates in the soil can enter the breach.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'm going call a few plumbers tomorrow

I want to disconnect the main line coming into the main shut off valve (in to the basement) and then shut off the valve (near the curb).........to have the line scoped to see exactly what's going on

No sense to blindly dig, right?

They should be able to scope the main feed line and find the break right?

Don't jump into a **** load of unnecessary spending for scopes and stuff. Call whoever supplies your water to come out and close the curb box. If the water stops, the leak is on your side. Either way, they will tell you what you need to do next. Electronic leak detection is a LOT cheaper than digging a hole and cutting into the line just to scope it.

Tommy

 

[four.cycle]

I'm gonna guess you have a leak in the line between your house and that shutoff. You can have a small leak and not notice any drop in pressure.

You can have a big-*** leak and not notice any drop in pressure.
The incoming line here broke open - they laid it in right on top of a rock (instead of laying it on a bed of sand, like they're supposed to do) and it split open about 8 feet from the house.
Utility company came out with a gauge - the guy said I was going through about four gallons a minute. Water bill that month was upwards of $2K. (Fortunately the city utility company has a program where you get a one-time credit when this happens.)
Incoming line was 1-1/2" black PCV - split open because it was laying on a rock - and blew a hole right through the outgoing "Orangeburg" sewer line, which is why we couldn't figure out where the water was going - it was coming in through the meter and going right back out into the sewer main line.

You need to get somebody out there who knows what to look for and go from there. I tried going cheap and all that got me was a ripped-up yard and a bill for two hours of backhoe work.

 

[D45]

Ok, well I guess turning the box off is the easiest step?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Yup. Take it from the guy that has repaired 3 city water mains this year and a 10" fire sprinkler line done twice last year.

Tommy

 

[D45]

Will turning it off and then back on hurt anything in my house?

I do have a "whole house" sediment filter in the basement

 

[D45]

After calling 7 plumbing companies, I finally found one that was helpful and interested in the job

I talked with the foreman for 30+ minutes, and he suggested, before I spend any money, to simply have the buffalo box shut off

The employee stated that the leak would not cause any pressure issues or discoloration, because water is being pushed out and not sucked in......makes sense

He also said that most likely the leak is small, therefore no pressure loss will be noticed

He said, that obviously water does not run upgrade/uphill and if I have wet grass 10+ feet uphill from the box, that it might be a leak that I am responsible for

Here is a pic, showing the BLUE drawn circle where the water cap is at along with the RED drawn line where the wetness is most closest to the house

I have all the utilities marked and my local water district is coming out to shut the box off Saturday morning, to see what happens

I am wondering why the water is pooling over the curb, about 3-4 feet away from the buried valve.....and not right near the valve

 

[mnoeltne]

I can't tell exactly how your yard is sloped from a photo, but, it appears that the wet area on the curb is exactly downhill from the soaked area. And the valve is over to one side.

Water is going to follow the easiest path, so if the contour is the way I think it is, then the water is just going straight down the yard. But, photos can show a weird perspective, so maybe it's just something about the soil conditions that is making it follow that path.

 

[LB-1911]

I have all the utilities marked and my local water district is coming out to shut the box off Saturday morning, to see what happens

Resolution?

 

[D45]

I found exactly where it is bubbling up through the ground, about 13 feet from the curb......in my front yard

I would assume where its coming up through the ground, the leak/broken line should be pretty close to this location

Now, I am all for digging it up myself...........but how deep will I have to go?

 

[BillK]

Now, I am all for digging it up myself...........but how deep will I have to go?

I imagine at least down to the frost depth for your area. Maybe 24-36 inches ? Does the house have a basement ? If so you could see how far below grade the line comes into the house.

My biggest concern is if the line is very old at all, you will probably end up replacing the entire line. Just be prepared for that.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I found exactly where it is bubbling up through the ground, about 13 feet from the curb......in my front yard

I would assume where its coming up through the ground, the leak/broken line should be pretty close to this location

My experience has been where there is nothing but soil covering the line, if the water is making it to the surface and not travelling along the line into the building or some other area where it finds its way out, the leak is almost directly below.

Tommy

 

[drmarkr]

At least things will be soft, and easy to dig/expose.......!

 

[Viper98912]

Side note: around my parts, black widow spiders like to live in those dark damp places like the water valve cover/box. Before you blindly stick your hand in there, have some gloves on.

 

[Bill Bowman]

Depending on where you are in NW Indiana, the ground can be clay. I dug down 7' in a yard in Lowell, and it was solid clay. The bucket skimming the wall of the hole, made it look like finished plaster. Good luck with your dig.

 

[D45]

I am really thinking about digging it myself, with a shovel

Its been water soaked for a week now, so even if/when I hit clay.......it shouldn't be that bad, right?

Now, why would the black plastic line break/rupture?

Also, whats the repair on the black plastic line.......cut it out, install two new fittings, clamp and bury?

Maybe just digging and finding the leak myself will save an excavating bill, and I would pay a plumber to repair it

 

[JimRB]

If you were a worry wart and wanted to not worry for another 20 years you would replace the whole line from the meter box or disconnect valve to the regulator in the house. A gambler would patch the hole.

A rock rubbing the line, a manufacturing defect, smurf pipe that is known to fail, someone knicked the pipe during installation leaving a weak spot, bad glue job let loose. Lots of reasons for failure.

 

[D45]

The black line entering the basement is pretty close to the floor, maybe 16" from the ground

I am hoping it just tapers and is not buried 8+ feet

 

[wasfuzz]

What is your time worth? You could dig it up and find you need to replace the whole thing and then will have to hire someone to come and trench the whole way! You could hire some one to expose the whole line and replace all pipe yourself and save money that way.
Also if it is not you doing the digging, ie hiring someone - they will also have to call for locates as most states do not allow contractors to use others locate requests, liability issue and if the contractor hits anything underground he is on the hook for the repairs and can be fined for "digging without a locate request called in"

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

18 inches might work right next to a warm basement that transfers heat into the soil, but the rest of the line has to be MUCH deeper than that to not freeze solid in the dead of winter. According to this site: https://www.reference.com/geography/frost-line-indiana-422f93322d3bbe3d the frost line in Indiana ranges from 30 inches in the southern part of the state to 60 inches in the north.

 

[Bill Bowman]

I've got a great guy in Lowell who can operate an excavator quite well. He's not real expensive either. Depending on where you are, that might be an option. If you would like his phone number, send me a pm.

 

[CTyankee]

IMO, I'd hire some pros to do this. It's been what?, 9 days now since you discovered you had a leak and haven't addressed it yet.

Past experience tells me when you start digging you are going to wish you didn't. Mostly likely after all this time you are going to have a very muddy mess to deal with. Unless the break is right next to the house, expect the line to be be at least 3-4 ft deep. A hole that a deep may not seem like much, but being down there bent over trying to make the repair can be a dangerous situation. You're probably gonna have to remove a large amount of material to create safe access. It's going to be a bigger job than you think.

Depending on the pipes condition, as others mentioned you may want to just have the whole line replaced. When mine sprung a leak(black plastic ****)...it did so 4 more times within 6 months. Thankfully I had linebacker insurance, so the water company footed the bill. After the 5th time, they replaced the entire line with copper. JMO...YMMV

 

[nadogail]

D45, I have had similar problems. I have enjoyed good luck patching water supply lines with sharkbite fittings. I am especially fond of the flexible lines with the fittings attached that are sold for hot water heater installations.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

As much as I hate to admit it, a water main leak isn't a DIY fix. Call in a pro leak guy...

Tommy

 

[csp]

As much as I hate to admit it, a water main leak isn't a DIY fix. Call in a pro leak guy..

x2, and quit dragging your feet. The more time goes by the messier the dig becomes.

 

[crguy]

As much as I hate to admit it, a water main leak isn't a DIY fix. Call in a pro leak guy...

Tommy

Not necessarily true.

I repaired a hole in my main supply line myself last year.
City came out and looked at the repair, said it was fine, and reduced the charge for the lost water.

 

[pima67]

Years ago late at night I could hear water running. Looked around but could not find anything. Then many months later I walked on the grass in the front of the house and "squish, squish". I found the leak. The original line was galvanized pipe which had developed a few pin holes in about 25 plus years. I rented a ditch witch type machine to dig the trench down to the old line and replaced it with copper from inside the house to the water meter. Have fun!

 

[ishiboo]

This is a very easy DIY fix if you don't mind digging that far by hand, and your time/energy spent are worth it to you.

If you plan on renting an excavator because you can't/don't want to dig it by hand, it's probably cheaper to find a plumber with a mini hoe that can take care of it all for not much more than the rental fee you'd pay.

It's probably 5-6' down, the hole needs to be big enough for you to access the pipe to make a repair and do so safely. The soil may be wet so you think it's easier to dig, but it's also 10 times as hard to lift out of the hole.

 

[ford33]

I live in northern Illinois. The thought of hand digging 4 feet down and 50 feet or so distance makes me reach for the telephone to hire an excavator. Here in Illinois, there is clay under the top soil. It is very difficult to dig. Northern Indiana may be similar soil conditions.

 

[grzellmer]

Soil/clay is wet from the leak and 6 ft down in the hole is asking for a cave in on top of you. Yes it costs money. Hire the pro to do it safely.

 

[txst]

The leak is not too far from your tree - the roots could have put pressure on the pipe and cause it to rupture.

Good luck with everything.

 

[D45]

I called 15 places, only one was interested in the job

Came and gave me a $3,100 estimate.........just a line repair, not a new line ran

EFF THAT

So, I got out my FLO-Tech submersible pump and started digging........

I am at about 36" right now and need to widen my hole

I talked with 4 neighbors as they were walking by, each said they also have to repair or replace their line.........same exact problem

 

[Bill Bowman]

What area are you in NW Indiana?

 

[Bill Bowman]

D45, check your PM's.

 

[csp]

Did you call any excavators? This is a routine job for them, including the water line repair.

 

[yellowbox]

I found exactly where it is bubbling up through the ground, about 13 feet from the curb......in my front yard

I would assume where its coming up through the ground, the leak/broken line should be pretty close to this location

Now, I am all for digging it up myself...........but how deep will I have to go?

So far this has taken 8!!!! Days.....really!!