Water Softener Woes, need a plumbers advise

[Trm303]

Hey guys, I’m going through some water softener issues and I was hoping to get some advise from someone more experienced in the subject.

I bought my house a year ago and the 20 year old softener (original to the house) was clearly having issues or not being run as there was rust stains all over the sinks, toilets, and showers. It was a fleck timed unit and I put salt in and let it run which definitely seemed to help but it had definitely been Tampered with and the brine tank would constantly overflow. I was given an older used Fleck 5600 from a friend that was in good working order prior to the being taken out when the house was moved over to city water. I installed the entire system and began having issues with it not cycling completely. I rebuilt the valve body and then the timer went so I also replaced that. The softener seems to cycle how it should and holds time but I’m am still having issues.

Through this whole ordeal my toilet tanks now have a lot of brown rust sentiment on the bottom, my float valves on 1 year old toilets continue to leak ever so slightly due to rust sediment building up inside ( you clean them up and the toilet will be running again a couple days later). Yesterday I said f*** it and bypassed the softener system completely until I figure out my next step. I cannot afford to get a new system at this time (but would like to down the road) and now that I’ve been through practically the whole system, I see no reason why I should need to replace it as these systems seem pretty simple.

Can anyone please shed some light on this for me? Unless someone wants to steer me in a different direction, The current plan is to drain the resin beads, replace them, and cross my fingers but I think I’m just pulling straws from here on out until I get some results.

The toilet was cleaned about a week ago and this is how yellow it has become. I also included a picture of the sediment inside the tank. The washer was bought new when I moved in and I am concerned I might damage it if I continue to run the water how it is. Water heater will be replaced shortly so I am not concerned with that.


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[Sluggo0018]

I can't tell from the pictures, but are you sure that the residue in the toilet tank isn't ion exchange resin from the body of the softener? It is very fine and is dark red in color, similar to the color of rust.

 

[1953mercury]

Have your run some Iron Out through it? If not try that several times in a row. Sometimes Your money and time ahead to just go new. They run around $600 on Amazon. I got 20+ years out of my old system, and finally went with a new setup. Uses much less salt. I run a coarse, and then a larger 5 micron filter before the softner, and run Iron out through it once a month. Mike

 

[Mick56]

You should have the water tested for hardness and iron. Softeners are not really designed for iron removal, lots of iron will ruin it. You may need an iron filter ahead of the softener.

 

[Trm303]

I can't tell from the pictures, but are you sure that the residue in the toilet tank isn't ion exchange resin from the body of the softener? It is very fine and is dark red in color, similar to the color of rust.

I played with it and it seems it might be the exchange resin your speaking of, what would be the next step to address that?

Mick: I will get a water test when I get a chance and see, thanks for the advice!

Mike: I have not tried iron out nor have I even heard of it but that is something I will try as soon as I put the softener back in service, I already looked into new ones but with money being tight I’m really hoping to get by as long as I can and put the money to better use elsewhere. The pre-softener filters is an interesting thought and I will be looking into those. Thanks

 

[rcktpwrd]

lots of good info and parts here: https://www.softenerparts.com/default.asp

 

[Joemctag]

What Mick56 said: Softeners remove calcium and magnesium (which can make soap “hard” to lather and otherwise give poor washing results ). Nothing to do with iron. The good news is you may not need the trouble and expense of a softener at all. Where I live, a lot of folks with wells install them mistakenly believing they’ll remove red clay, which, like iron, stains everything. There are other treatments for iron, if that’s what you got. Good luck!

 

[oldmxracer]

I only use iron out water softener salt in Mine ( sold under many names ) and it has really helped ! Heard it is harder on the softener but My old used unit has been working for years !

 

[matt_i]

I hold no trade certifications, but:

A potassium permangante system in series with my water softener changed my life with respect to rust/iron.

It does discharge a lot of water in the backwash, so a good sump pump (Zoeller) is required. But well worth it.

 

[nafterclifen]

Here is some reading for you on iron - ferric vs ferrous.

https://www.awqinc.com/iron-and-water-treatment-for-iron/

 

[RoninB4]

Have just gone through similar problems as the OP on a 20 year old house I bought 3 years ago. Same issues with fixture stains and also Calcium clogging of pipes every 18 months. Would second the suggestion of getting the water tested, no other way to determine what you're dealing with. The house never had a filtration system for the well and Calcium clogging the pipes was a PITA. The resin in the WS can be ruined (if we believe the info on the internet) by too much salt, improper regeneration cycling, and/or age. Iron can be dealt with IF below a certain level (5 PPM IIRC). Mine is .89 PPM and the softener appears to be handling it. The amount of information/solutions on the internet can be confusing to downright misleading due to everybody has different water conditions. Above link from nafterclifen on Ferric/Ferrous iron is start of informing yourself, testing is almost mandatory to know what YOUR condition is. I feel for your circumstances and your budget, I was there too last year. Post if you need advice, someone here may be able to help. Good luck.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Since you said you bypassed the water softener for the time being, what you should do is clean out the toilets again and see if the rusty color returns after a week or so.

If the rusty color no longer shows up, and the toilets stay clean, then you will know that the water softener is the problem.

If the rusty color comes back, and the toilets get dirty again, then you will know the issue is with the water, and you may have to get some type of filter.

Either way, as others have mentioned, you should get your water tested. Since you have bypassed the water softener, now is the time to test the water since it is coming straight from your supply and not going thru the softener.

Jim

 

[wfopete]

I was told Iron Out can screw up the resin tank; just sayin'

 

[Showkey]

Just take a Untreated unfiltered water sample to one or more “Softener Stores” and have tested.

 

[58Yeoman]

I was getting the iron slime in my toilets and calcium in the aerators, so I installed a new water softener. The WS company recommends cleaning the resin about 3 times a year with THEIR cleaner, and they extend the warranty when you do so. I don't know if it's the same thing as IronOut or not, but I'm using it. I still have a supply of IO that I used to add to the toilet tanks and bowls.

If you have rusty stuff that you want to clean, IO works for that. I mixed up some and soaked some rusty tractor parts in it, and they came out clean.

 

[kj_mustang]

Always get a full water test done first to show all minerals, hardness and presence of bacteria. My new deep drilled well had a sulphur smell to the water. Water test came back with moderate levels of iron, fairly high on manganese, and moderately hard levels of calcium. The manganese, iron, and sulphur bacteria together was interesting. Left untreated, it turns into a black/muddy red film in the toilet tanks/bowls and black/brown slime floating on the water surface of the tank. You have to match the media of the treatment system for what works best to remove the minerals. I have a whole house cartridge filter after the pressure tank, then an aerated iron filter tank with Katalox media, than a water softener system. Both systems use the Fleck controls and have worked flawlessly for the last 4 years.

 

[Trm303]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I am definitely getting a water test and will clean the toilets/faucets and see how they fair with the softener bypassed. I will update when I get to the bottom of this.


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