Water treatment system

[APG12]

Anyone here in the know on water treatment systems? I’m on a private well and have a large amount of sediment and very hard water that I want to treat.

I’m looking for a good sediment filter and water softener. The sediment resembles fine sand and clogs regular filters very quickly. I’m attaching the results of a lab test.




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[mcbane]

You can get centrifugal sand traps that work much like a dust collector.

That being said, beyond getting ideas from the interwebs you might ask your local lab if they can recommend a well water tech who has experience with the water in your area. You might save a lot of money by talking to that local guy since practical experience with nearby wells can sometimes be more valuable than more theoretical knowledge.


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[APG12]

Makes sense, thank you.


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[dcg9381]

> a private well and have a large amount of sediment and very hard water that I want to treat.

I've done quite a bit. So much so that I've given up on wells and moved to rain water.

You're starting it right by doing the analysis.

Sediment (undissolved) - the only way to deal with that is filter media. The bigger your filters, the less often that you have to deal with them. I headed toward 20" filters that were clear and for "really bad" sediment, I'd even run them in parallel. I had one pre-filter that was very course and spin-down for cleaning. I do final sediment traps at the point of use.

For water softening, the best valves on the market are Clack and Fleck. I think Clack stopped selling direct to consumer (at all). But you can still get Fleck. I'd run your water analysis by an online reseller of systems (like freshwatersystems) and see what they recommend. Anything with a Fleck or Clack valve is vastly superior to the consumer stuff you can buy at Home Depot and costs a fraction of what it would cost to have it installed by a pro.


For really hard water, you're adding salt with a softener. The only way to clean that up is with reverse osmosis. We do these at the point of use, they're not very expensive.

 

[Stuart in MN]

That being said, beyond getting ideas from the interwebs you might ask your local lab if they can recommend a well water tech who has experience with the water in your area. You might save a lot of money by talking to that local guy since practical experience with nearby wells can sometimes be more valuable than more theoretical knowledge.

In many parts of the country, there's a county extension office that can test your water and make recommendations for little or no cost. I'd check that avenue first.

 

[rustrunner]

I had one that had a lot of sediment and had to have the pump raised to stop it.

 

[APG12]

The water test was done by the county lab and it definitely wasn’t cheap.


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[dcg9381]

Stephens ecology does my testing, about $100. Kinda hard to find:
https://shop.stevensecology.com/Standard-Water-Analysis-WSTD.htm

 

[Sumboodie]

Anyone here in the know on water treatment systems? I’m on a private well and have a large amount of sediment and very hard water that I want to treat.

I’m looking for a good sediment filter and water softener. The sediment resembles fine sand and clogs regular filters very quickly. I’m attaching the results of a lab test.




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That's not anything I'd consider "very hard water". It's low enough I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, but I don't imagine it's causing all your water using equipment to have trouble.
It wasn't even a year in my new house and my dishwasher was clogging up and most of my clothes were fading colors and were "stiff" almost like everything was starched. Like a black shirt would turn grey after several weeks of wear and wash.

We have hard water in this area, nothing crazy, but it's around 40 grains per gallon, which I believe is 800 mg/L.
I had my softener set to 30gpg, but recent retested the water and upped it to 40. I wasn't sure if the softener was failing or what was going on. Just wasn't running often enough.

Get a whole house filter. The cartridges run about $15 each, I usually replace once a year or so. If your sediment is really bad, run a series of filters which smaller micron rating as you progress through the filters. They sell setups with 2 or 3 filters in series.

 

[APG12]

> a private well and have a large amount of sediment and very hard water that I want to treat.

I've done quite a bit. So much so that I've given up on wells and moved to rain water.

You're starting it right by doing the analysis.

Sediment (undissolved) - the only way to deal with that is filter media. The bigger your filters, the less often that you have to deal with them. I headed toward 20" filters that were clear and for "really bad" sediment, I'd even run them in parallel. I had one pre-filter that was very course and spin-down for cleaning. I do final sediment traps at the point of use.

For water softening, the best valves on the market are Clack and Fleck. I think Clack stopped selling direct to consumer (at all). But you can still get Fleck. I'd run your water analysis by an online reseller of systems (like freshwatersystems) and see what they recommend. Anything with a Fleck or Clack valve is vastly superior to the consumer stuff you can buy at Home Depot and costs a fraction of what it would cost to have it installed by a pro.


For really hard water, you're adding salt with a softener. The only way to clean that up is with reverse osmosis. We do these at the point of use, they're not very expensive.

I’ve been using a cartridge filter for the past several years and it just clogs too quickly. I’m definitely looking for something more efficient.

I also bought a HD special water softener years ago that was complete junk. I’ve heard to look for Clack or Fleck valves.


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[Sumboodie]

> a private well and have a large amount of sediment and very hard water that I want to treat.

I've done quite a bit. So much so that I've given up on wells and moved to rain water.

You're starting it right by doing the analysis.

Sediment (undissolved) - the only way to deal with that is filter media. The bigger your filters, the less often that you have to deal with them. I headed toward 20" filters that were clear and for "really bad" sediment, I'd even run them in parallel. I had one pre-filter that was very course and spin-down for cleaning. I do final sediment traps at the point of use.

For water softening, the best valves on the market are Clack and Fleck. I think Clack stopped selling direct to consumer (at all). But you can still get Fleck. I'd run your water analysis by an online reseller of systems (like freshwatersystems) and see what they recommend. Anything with a Fleck or Clack valve is vastly superior to the consumer stuff you can buy at Home Depot and costs a fraction of what it would cost to have it installed by a pro.


For really hard water, you're adding salt with a softener. The only way to clean that up is with reverse osmosis. We do these at the point of use, they're not very expensive.

Got me thinking, I'd never heard about it being salt water. I've had a blood pressure issue for years but I've fairly active and not overly fat. It's never high enough to be "holy ****" and I pass my DOT physical fine, but it's generally higher than it should and has raised concerned several times over the years. One Dr had me on lisinopril for a while even.

Looking at this, it talks about if under 400ppm, it's ok to drink.

My water tests at 40 grains per gallon hardness, which is around 685ppm if my math is correct.
That sound right?

 

[APG12]

It’s very hard water for my area and hard enough that I’d like to treat it.


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[Sumboodie]

In many parts of the country, there's a county extension office that can test your water and make recommendations for little or no cost. I'd check that avenue first.

Also many of the $$ water softener outfits, like Kinectico will do a water test for free with the idea that you'll hopefully buy their stuff.

Not sure if that brand is in the L48? https://www.hydrotechak.com/

 

[APG12]

I have the hardness level, so what else would be needed to test for at this point? I was thinking I’d be able to choose and size a softener based on hardness and water usage.


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[APG12]

I’ve had a few people suggest a more thorough water test, but I have no idea what I should be looking for. This is my first house on well water.


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[Sumboodie]

It’s very hard water for my area and hard enough that I’d like to treat it.


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Sure, but it's not considered very hard. Most any unit will handle water softening at those low levels unless you have a high water useage.

I go through about 300lbs of salt a year.

 

[pcmeiners]

Depends where you are and somewhat on well depth/geology.
In my area I need to test for Radon, farm fertilizer (nitrates), organic insecticide, organic compounds, iron/heavy metals. The free tests offered are very basic, PH, hard water, iron, for the most part ; your asking the fox in the hen house to do the testing.
Extensive testing will put you out a few hundred, part of which is over night shipping of the water sample.
Ask your neighbors have they tested, and to the extent.

 

[cvairwerks]

When I did process water treatment, we stacked filters of various capabilities to keep from plugging them too quickly. We would often use something like a 50 micron in the first filter, a 20 micron in the second and either a 5 or 1 micron in the third, prior to the resin beds.

 

[dcg9381]

I posted a link to Stephens ecology. The first question you want answered with any source is: Is it safe to drink? (lead, arsenic, e-coli, coliform)
Hardness is secondary.

Water softeners use an sodium ion to bond to the dissolved solid ions in the water, that's how it "works". So you are adding salt. I'm not saying it's saline water and don't know that it's enough to impact your heart condition.

You can do it without sodium. You use Potassium Chloride. It costs more, but resolves the sodium issues.


I mention reverse osmosis as it is the only thing that will remove dissolved solids. You cannot filter those out with media filters. RO can remove 90-97% of solids... We have a unit that has built in UV at point of use. Cost under $170.

 

[tdkkart]

I had one that had a lot of sediment and had to have the pump raised to stop it.

This was my first thought, and could be a very reasonably priced solution. Typically well pumps area a few feet off the bottom of the hole, but years of infiltration or seismic activity could have caved in the bore hole enough that you're sucking sand that you wouldn't have to be.

Please be careful of some of the water treatment companies, there's a LOT of them that have no issues charging you thousands for the same thing you can buy yourself a for a couple hundred dollars at Home Depot.

Also realize that very well is different, what works for someone 5 miles away may be completely wrong for your situation. I have excellent water where I am, but with in just a few miles there's water that's practically unuseable from calcium.

 

[APG12]

I posted a link to Stephens ecology. The first question you want answered with any source is: Is it safe to drink? (lead, arsenic, e-coli, coliform)
Hardness is secondary.

Water softeners use an sodium ion to bond to the dissolved solid ions in the water, that's how it "works". So you are adding salt. I'm not saying it's saline water and don't know that it's enough to impact your heart condition.

You can do it without sodium. You use Potassium Chloride. It costs more, but resolves the sodium issues.


I mention reverse osmosis as it is the only thing that will remove dissolved solids. You cannot filter those out with media filters. RO can remove 90-97% of solids... We have a unit that has built in UV at point of use. Cost under $170.

I tested for coliform, lead, arsenic, iron, magnesium, manganese, calcium and hardness and verified that the water is safe. Now my plan is to address the hardness and sediment.


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[APG12]

I’d definitely consider putting a RO under the kitchen sink.


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[APG12]

When I did process water treatment, we stacked filters of various capabilities to keep from plugging them too quickly. We would often use something like a 50 micron in the first filter, a 20 micron in the second and either a 5 or 1 micron in the third, prior to the resin beds.

I’ve had a couple quotes that recommend a spin down filter and then a dual gradient filter to address the sediment, which seems like a decent option.


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[APG12]

Well is 120’ and well pump is set at 100’ so I don’t know if raising it would help, but definitely an option to consider.


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[thammel]

First thing in the system for sediment should be a Lakos sandmaster filter. This has purge at bottom to remove sediment. Get stainless steel. Next should be well x trol or similar holding tank. If you have acid water, next would be a neutralizer filter. Next would be a softener system. Final filter I like is a Rusco filter with purge valve at bottom also.

Last house had a ton of sediment and the Lakos was great. Had to purge it roughly every 2 weeks as I recall. Current house has no sediment. I like Rusco filter (140 micron) because you never have to replace a cartridge.

 

[dcg9381]

> Lakos sandmaster filter.

Looked this up. It's expensive ($1k) but looks great. Hook it up to an automatic purge system and it'll probably take care of a lot of the work for you. I would use a finer medial filter downstream....

 

[Tim Kennedy]

APG12:
Where are you located?

 

[pcmeiners]

" The sediment resembles fine sand and clogs regular filters very quickly"
Use to drill wells. If the sand is that fine or the pipe size promotes (high flow rates) sand being pulled up 20' from the bottom of the well, bringing the pump up more will have no effect. At this point a sediment filter is your only recourse. Should you ever need to drill another well, have finer mesh screen at the bottom, and possibly a larger casing diameter . The flow rate to the pump must be pretty high to pull sand 20' from the bottom; another possibility, the casing was pulled up from the bottom, close to where the pump resides.

 

[mike93lx]

I have my well guy do the filters at my place. We have an arsenic, iron and a softener and test annually, mainly for bacteria and to ensure the arsenic filter is still working.

I diy almost everything, but this is an area that I am glad a pro handles.

 

[APG12]

I’m in Putnam County, NY


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[APG12]

" The sediment resembles fine sand and clogs regular filters very quickly"

Use to drill wells. If the sand is that fine or the pipe size promotes (high flow rates) sand being pulled up 20' from the bottom of the well, bringing the pump up more will have no effect. At this point a sediment filter is your only recourse. Should you ever need to drill another well, have finer mesh screen at the bottom, and possibly a larger casing diameter . The flow rate to the pump must be pretty high to pull sand 20' from the bottom; another possibility, the casing was pulled up from the bottom, close to where the pump resides.

The pump was replaced a couple years ago so that definitely may have somethin to do with it.


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[APG12]

Sandmaster looks promising but definitely not cheap.


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[Augus7us]

I just spent the last two weeks reading up on well water and filtration systems for various issues. Until my eyes were bleeding...

I found that unlike carpentry or electricity, there are no white papers on treating well water. A lot of what guys like kinetico are selling is a bunch of black boxes with "filtration media". If you DIY it you have to be aware that introducing one type of filtration could cause a chemical reaction with something that was harmless and is now bad. Serious **** yet there is no solid guide or set of instructions I could find.

I signed up for an account on Terry Love's forum and read quite a bit. There is some good info there but like any forum there is also people giving bad advice. There are a few very knowledgeable guys on there that post some good info though. In the end I ended up calling one of those guys that knows his stuff and I'm waiting on my second quote from him. He is a little more than buying stuff on Amazon but I'm getting quality equipment like Clack Valves and no BS. He talked me out of something I wanted and gave sound reasoning for it.

If you want his info PM me.

Good luck, I know I'm happy to finally put this to bed. I started this a year ago with a post on here!

 

[APG12]

Funny you mention that. I’ve been referencing the Terry Love forum for the past few years and posted there before I posted here. I’ll send you a PM.


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