Water valves in vaults

[bluedog225]

i’ve got all my house bibs in vaults. Top of the vault about level with the ground. We’ve got no frost line in this part of Texas.

The utility company has the main shut off in a similar vault. Mine are installed like theirs. The difference is if they crack a fitting, they simply send a crew to dig it up and replace it. Whereas I’ve got a source parts and get down in the mud myself.

The ground around here stays pretty warm, but I don’t have a good feel whether or not I need to get inside each vault and cover the valve with more insulation.

I’m curious if people in colder parts of the world simply rely on the valve being inside of the vault or do y’all get down there and insulate these things. It’s not cold here often but we can get down to 15 Fahrenheit or so for a few days.

Thanks

 

[Bert_]

Cut some foam foam insulation and glue it to the bottom of the vault lid.

 

[jblnut]

My water lines are down 8’ and nothing I care about contains water going into winter.

 

[Junkman]

Dig down and insulate the earth below and alongside the vault with 2" rigid foam. and then cover with additional foam. That should protect the valve from frost for a short period. If you keep the faucet running slightly, the water usually doesn't freeze unless it is exposed to cold and wind.

 

[reader2580]

They don't use vaults for city water shutoffs here in Minnesota. The shutoff valve for the city is buried at least four feet deep. There is a pipe going up to ground level with a cap on it for access. They use a long 'key' to turn the valve on or off. Sometimes the pipe fills with dirt and debris so they have to flush it out to get to the valve.

My outside hose faucets on my house are the frost free style so the actual valve is in heated space. If I had a faucet in another area outside I would use one of the yard hydrants with the actual valve well underground where it won't freeze. Fire hydrants here have the valve around four feet below ground to prevent freezing.

 

[PelicanPines]

-1f degrees last night... 9 degrees at 9 am...

Two hose bibs have 18" frost preventing valves... But in this weather... I'm glad I go under the house and shut off the water to the bibs.

 

[bluedog225]

On a couple of them, I got a big piece of 2 inch polyiso and cut a hole in it for the faucet. And covered with a half inch of dirt up to faucet level.


Then I decided that the insulation was keeping the warmth of the ground from the valve itself. And so I did a couple with just dirt up to the faucet level.

I think the dirt itself stays in the 60s or 70s around here.

 

[tarmy]

Get a small garbage bag and slip a piece of insulation in it about the size of the vault. Lay it over the valves…it will trap ground heat and save problems. Easy to remove/install when needed and keeps the insulation batt dry…seal the end of the bag with duct tape or similar. Been doing it for years as it gets down to zero on occasion.

 

[Bert_]

Dig down and insulate the earth below and alongside the vault with 2" rigid foam. and then cover with additional foam. That should protect the valve from frost for a short period. If you keep the faucet running slightly, the water usually doesn't freeze unless it is exposed to cold and wind.

Do not insulate below the vault. You want the heat from the ground.

I suppose you could insulate the sides down to the frost line. But I'm guessing there isn't a frost line in Texas.

 

[BillK]

How long have yoou lived there ? Has there ever been a problem ? How deep are the vaults ? It would have to stay at below freezing for quite some time to get down very deep.

If you want to try something go and get an inexpensive indoor/outdoor thermometer and put the outdoor unit down in the vault and monitor it. They will transmit quite some distance.

 

[Hank11]

Here, it is not uncommon to find the meter vault full of brown dead leaves. You could also use straw if it’s handy. Or, slightly messier, plastic packing peanuts.

 

[finn]

i’ve got all my house bibs in vaults. Top of the vault about level with the ground. We’ve got no frost line in this part of Texas.

The utility company has the main shut off in a similar vault. Mine are installed like theirs. The difference is if they crack a fitting, they simply send a crew to dig it up and replace it. Whereas I’ve got a source parts and get down in the mud myself.

The ground around here stays pretty warm, but I don’t have a good feel whether or not I need to get inside each vault and cover the valve with more insulation.

I’m curious if people in colder parts of the world simply rely on the valve being inside of the vault or do y’all get down there and insulate these things. It’s not cold here often but we can get down to 15 Fahrenheit or so for a few days.

Thanks

Simple: We don’t use vaults. Our water shutoff to the house from the city main is six feet underground. The socket is at the end of the extension pipe, with a tee handle at the top. There’s a pipe with a cap for access.

I think the newer infrastructure is a little different, but the same idea.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I am in NC where the frost line is around 12”. I have a 3/4” pvc valve and a pvc drain valve in a round water box around 18” down. I shut my shop water off around 25 degrees and drain it into rocks below the box. I have never had a freeze issue in the 12 years it has been there.

 

[finn]

I am in NC where the frost line is around 12”. I have a 3/4” pvc valve and a pvc drain valve in a round water box around 18” down. I shut my shop water off around 25 degrees and drain it into rocks below the box. I have never had a freeze issue in the 12 years it has been there.

Ours freeze primarily under streets or plowed sidewalks and driveways, where there’s no snow to insulate the ground. Or else on dead end streets where there’s supply line deadheads as there are no more houses to keep the water in the pipe moving.

 

[Bert_]

We have pits for valves and well pump equipment. Out in the country there are meter pits where the meter can't be inside a house. Our frost line is usually around 4' but can be deeper under a plowed driveway. Generally water lines are buried 5-6' deep

The newer meter pits are done with a piece of ~12" PVC. Meter is connected with some flexible plastic pipe so it can be pulled to the surface for service. These often have a little round piece of foam insulation at the top.

Everything else is done with concrete curbs. You climb down inside to access valves or equipment. Most of these are not insulated. Mostly just make sure there's no big gaps where the concrete lid sits on it.

If I was given a bunch of PVC valves, I would be tempted to throw them away. Sort of serious. If you're going to put a valve in just go buy stainless. They aren't that expensive.

 

[545_days]

Just sit a trash bag full of dry leaves on top of it, it off you are really worried drop a hand warmer into the vault to generate some heat overnight.

 

[Codyboy]

I'm about 100 miles north of the Gulf of America.
Ive never been concerned about water pipe underground.
The water meter at my house is maybe 10 to 12 inches deep with a plastic box over the top.
I guess thats what you're calling a vault?
I see it all as a non issue.

 

[dcg9381]

The ground around here stays pretty warm, but I don’t have a good feel whether or not I need to get inside each vault and cover the valve with more insulation.

I assume "Vault" is like the sprinkler system box?

I have water lines up the wazzoo in TX. At least 350' in the yard, water collection system with above ground stuff as well as various valves.

I've NEVER had a single problem with anything below the level of dirt. I do try to drain the lines for the water tanks, but if I was worried, I'd just throw a blanket on top of the "vault" and be done with it. If it's above the ground and actively flows water, I heat the lines themselves.

My deepest lines are probably 20" down which includes our water main. But even lines 4-8" down don't freeze and didn't freeze in 2021 when it was teens-20s for about a week...

If these are PEX lines they'll be fine. It's PVC and copper that don't handle freeze. We don't see hard freeze for more than a week and there is a lot of heat 6" down in Texas. No frost line.