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Waterfurnace issue

My Old Tools

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Hamrick Lake, TX
WaterFurnace International Case #782653. Waterfurnace is selling Series 7 systems with a fatal flaw and they acknowledge it. The programmable expansion valve control no longer works. It only opens about 30% of the requested value, crippling system performance in both heating and cooling modes. It causes the system to freeze internally (block of ice) in 50 degree weather and 50 degree water temps, even with 30% methanol antifreeze added. The system is currently costing me $20-$30 a day in strip heating and my wife is freezing while she goes through breast cancer treatments. Waterfurnace has offered no fixes nor any timeline for a fix. The original design had an EEG board that worked. That board has since been dropped and they attempted to use the ABC board to do the control. It doesn't work and they don't know how the fix it. It has been a year.
 
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zendriver

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Case #?

Has it been escalated, like to the top?

"we don't know how to fix it" pretty much falls into the "wrong answer!" category for an expensive system like that.

Sorry your wife (and you) are going through such ****. If it's been a year, sounds like they have no intention of fixing it at all.

Worse case have it yanked out and put in something that works.
 
OP
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My Old Tools

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I accomplished my goal of getting the factory's attention. We updated all of the firmware in the system today. Next cold night is Sunday. I'll let you know.
 

pcmeiners

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In the only town in Pennsylvania, Bloomsburg.
Get in touch with the attorney generals office of your state to apply a little heat to the situation, if escalation is needed. Better Business Bureau is generally a waste of time.

"we don't know how to fix it"

If escalated to the attorney general office, I am sure they will fix it or face a stiff fine. Had an escalation for a Samsung warrant issue, basically Samsung re-did their entire phone warranty site, bet it cost then >$100k to do it.
 
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My Old Tools

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have you tried describing the problem to the folks here: https://www.geoexchange.org/forum/

from your description, I can't understand what is wrong. I have two 7 series units functioning perfectly since 2019 but always trying to learn
Since your system was built, the configuration has changed and they no longer have an EEV Control board. They now perform that function with a change to the firmware on the ABC and AXB boards. Apparently the first units configured this way shipped with defective firmware. Your's will be updated to this configuration if the EEV board ever dies. Geoexchange board seems dead. Most all of the posts are old.
 

gsmith22

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Central NJ
okay, thanks for the description. i occasionally look at the geoexhcnage board but I'm much less active than when I was getting my system.
 
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chinboys

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I read about this problem and brought it to my HVAC-R class and instructor to find a solution yesterday.
We didn't have time to discuss the problem but I felt I should try to help as my late wife also had breast cancer and died from it.
I can appreciate your wanting to make your wife as comfortable as possible.

So I did some research based on your problem and symptoms. I may have a solution too.

Yes, when you freeze up or get a block of ice at the evaporator, it usually means your superheat is near zero or below it.
This confirms you have either a low refrigerant charge or the pressure-reducing valve isn't functioning correctly (blockage, mechanical problem, feedback mechanism).
From what I read about the technical specs of your water furnace it uses an EEV as a metering device or two of them in the case of its configuration as a heat pump. And the superheat ought to be 5-7 degrees.

And yes, because your EEV's aren't operating in their full range, then you are not operating efficiently and worse, may not be cooling your compressor adequately thus reducing its life expectancy.

Superheat is measured as a result of two temperature readings. One measures the temperature of the metal pipe right before it enters the compressor (suction line). The second temperature reading corresponds to the refrigerant's P/T chart from the pressure reading at the suction line's pressure tap. Superheat = temperature at the suction pipe - temperature corresponding to the suction line pressure reading.

Hence, your system had a circuit design to accomplish the superheat calculation and then use it to drive the EEV to open more or close it to maintain this range of superheat based on your heating or cooling load which is based on the indoor and outdoor temperature conditions.

Here is a solution you can implement with the help of an HVAC-R tech.
Find an EEV controller that will read the suction line temperature and pressure sensors that ought to be mounted on your system.
Use this EEV controller to drive the existing EEV metering device to maintain the 5-7 degrees of superheat.
Yes, this may mean your tech has to disconnect the existing connections from these three devices from that circuit board that doesn't work or continue to use the pressure and temperature connections in parallel with the new controller and old circuit board. I am not sure if your old circuit board needs the temp and pressure signals to operate or for safety (i.e. low-pressure sensor).

The above isn't pretty but ought to work.

Good luck if you wish to implement the above.

Good health and success to you, wife, and family too
 
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My Old Tools

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Thanks, we got the factory's attention via the social media posting I did. When you post problems on the CEO's twitter feed they get touchy, and **** rolls down hill. We got a factory engineer on the phone to walk us through new firmware updates on the two main boards in the system. It is definitely improved. Next hard cold spell we'll see just how much. It is supposedly operating at factory spec now.
 

popbigguy

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Feb 18, 2008
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Lincoln, NE
Wonder if we can get updates for other Waterfurance products? I think my 2011 Syenegy system has some software problems.
 

fitter30

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Jun 23, 2019
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Location
Peace Valley,mo
Icing on the evaporator main cause in your case is the ex valve isn't following the superheat and for whatever reason staying in one position. Load changes superheat and suction pressure drops to below freezing forms ice. Surprised that you haven't lost a compressor from floodback.Since electronic valves have been around since to 1980 with multiple manufacturers the only problems pressure or temp sensor fail and only couple of valves. Have you Google waterfurnace forums to see what's going on?
 
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