Wayne Air Compressor Tripping Breaker

[Supertrucker1978]

I have searched and searched and can't find any and info for my issue.A little back story here. So after years and years of searching for a vintage air compressor I finally came across this Wayne 60 gal horizontal. Fairly priced but previous owner said it needed start and run capacitors. I finally got power to it, replaced the capacitors and as soon as I flip the breaker to run it it trips it. Bypassed the pressure switch same thing. Took the belts off same thing, motor turns freely and co does the compressor. Not sure where to look next....any suggestions?

 

[tym]

A large inductive load can trip some more modern ground fault breakers. I'd check to make sure the capacitors are proper value. I'd also do the obvious and test the motor to rule out a short.

 

[Carla]

Hmmm.......single phase motor?

What HP?

If single phase, is it correctly wired for the voltage (120 or 230) you're trying to run it on?

cheers

Carla

 

[Ghost11]

Whats the amperage rating for the start up? Big motors have the biggest amp draw as soon as motor starts up.

 

[Supertrucker1978]

Its a single phase 5hp Dayton motor, 230 volt, 24 amp at full load. I have it wired to an 80 amp breaker. The capacitors are of the same value as the original ones that I took out.

 

[Roberts210]

Personally, at this point I'd pull the drive end cap and see if any wires are shorting out.

So the previous owner didn't power the unit up for you. That's suspicious in my eyes. Capacitors are easy to replace. If I had a big compressor and wanted to sell it I'd certainly pony up for a couple of capacitors so I could show it running. Did you take the old capacitors to an elec. shop and have them tested to see if the p.o. was correct? Also, a good motor shop could tell you whats wrong with the motor for pretty cheap if you took it in to them.

If you pull the end cap, mark it's position first relative to the motor housing so it can be put back exactly as it was.

 

[Warrenator]

Also, check the centrifugal switch and see if it moves, clean the contacts. My compressor was doing exactly what you described, a little spray of oil and pull a piece of paper through the contacts and it works great.

The centrifugal switch is in the end of the motor, it is a stamped metal thing with a spring, it needs to move freely, as the motor spins up it switches current from the start windings to the run windings.

 

[Supertrucker1978]

No, the P.O never fired it up for me. He runs an auto shop as a second income and it sounded like he just wanted something newer. And he was selling it at a "I don't want to mess with it price" I turned the pump over by hand and it was building pressure. I priced out new motors so worst case scenario was to buy a new one. Ill check out those 2 things after I get this antenna aimed.

 

[Roberts210]

Once you pull the motor end cap, stick your nose as close in there as possible and take a whiff. If you smell burned wiring, you my friend, have been snookered. If that's the case, and the windings are burned you've got a good boat anchor there. BUT... if you don't smell any burned wiring then the problem is something minor. Lets hope it's the latter.

 

[Carla]

Mr Roberts has the right idea.......have the 'centrifugal switch end' end-bell off, and do a good visual inspection. Fried wiring will be obvious, and fatal, as the cost of a proper re-wind is unlikely to be cost-effective.

Have a good close look at the centrifugal switch mechanism, and reason out how it works. 'Stuck' components, or a little broken spring could well be the problem, and the cure will be obvious once seen. (the most dramatically stuck centrifugal switch I've ever seen was in a motor much like yours which had run the compressor in an automotive paint shop. It was jammed solidly with the airborne paint and bondo dust from sanding some large number of cars over several years time. Blowing out the dust, un-sticking the contact points, and freeing-up the centrifugal mechanism were all that motor needed, after which it ran normally)

Do verify the wiring hookup for the motor per the data plate, and do be certain of a good green grounding wire, 10 ga. min., from the motor frame to the ground terminal at the power source.

cheers

Carla

 

[Supertrucker1978]

I cleaned the centrifugal switch mechanism and is still doing the same thing, here's a video of what its doing, not sure if it helps or not. There's a place that repairs motors close to my work I might just drop the motor off with them and let them figure it out.

 

[Roberts210]

I had a Comet saw motor that just puked out one day. No burned smell or obvious burned wiring but it needed a rewind. That was in the late 1990's and it's still running strong after the (expensive) rewind.

 

[G_P]

The breaker is tripping so fast that it seems like there is a short somewhere.
Turn off all the lights so its pitch dark in there and then flip the breaker on and look for the blue spark or flash.

 

[randyhenke]

Caps might be faulty even though they are new. Also remove motor wiring from everything and ohm out the motor. Also hook up a multimeter to the circuit before u turn it on and measure voltage with nothing else running now try again as you turn it on see how much of a voltage drop you get. If more than 5 percent that could be your issue.

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[Roberts210]

Good advice from RandyHenke.

Generally a bad capacitor will not blow a breaker, rather the motor will hum and try to turn or turn very, very slowly. At that point if the motor pulley is given a few spins by hand the motor will come up to speed.

 

[Supertrucker1978]

I sent the motor in to be looked at, it didn't have a wiring diagram so the previous owner wired the capacitors wrong when he took them out to test them. Which they were "good" but weak. They also found out that the bearings in the motor are going out so those are being replaced along with a wiring diagram.

 

[Roberts210]

Glad you are saving it.

 

[Supertrucker1978]

So my saga continues, Get my motor back from the repair shop, hook it all up and the breaker trips. So I start bypassing the pressure switch, take the belts off, check the plug. Still trips the breaker. I have my compressor wired to a plug so I can run my welder on 240 if needed. Its a Millermatic 211 MVP and most of the stuff I weld can be done with 120 volts. But in case I have to weld something really thick Ill have the 240 outlet. Anyways I have a 100 amp breaker that runs from my main box to a smaller box in my garage. So I bypassed the 80 amp breaker in my smaller box and now the compressor is working. When welding I never tripped the 80 amp but with the compressor it does. The compressor is only a few more amps than the welder. So my question now is do circuit breakers get weak?

 

[tym]

Is it a GFCI breaker by any chance?

Not sure what the expected inrush current for an inductive load like that motor is, but >80A would be a lot.

 

[Supertrucker1978]

The breaker isnt a GFCI, I highly doubt the motor is pulling over 80 amps because I'm sure the shop repairing the motor would have said something. I'm going to try a new breaker today. I just wasn't sure if a breaker could get weak from old age. The House was built in 1969 and the panels haven't been updated.

 

[marinusdees]

Short answer. Yes, breakers do go bad. Not saying that's the problem.

 

[Ghost11]

Yes. Breakers can go bad and wear out. But thats usually uncommon. Have you used this outlet recently to weld?

 

[Razorsedge]

What kind of panel and breakers? I think some are more prone to failure than others.

 

[randyhenke]

Could be a bad breaker causing it to trip. If u can borrow a clamp meter u can see what ur running at while on the bigger breaker that might give u a clue but the inrush will be too fast for u to see.

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[randyhenke]

I just looked in the NEC motor tables and the absolute max breaker u should put that compressor on is an 70 breaker using exception 2b. Don't quote me on that tho I am just starting to understand the motor tables and could have missed something. That compressor in like new state shouldn't need anything bigger than 50 or 60A

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[Roberts210]

Heck, try a new breaker. See what happens.

 

[Supertrucker1978]

So........Here's where being new to home ownership really shines through. Come to find out what I thought was an 80 amp breaker is really just a 40 amp breaker and my 100 amp breaker is really just a 50 amp. For some strange reason I thought you added each side of a double pole breaker to figure out what amp the breaker is. But I replaced the breaker in the garage with a new 40 amp breaker and everything works. But knowing what I know now I way over did it on the wiring to the 240 outlet. I based it off a 80 amp circuit instead of a 40.

 

[Roberts210]

That's good news!! Nothing like learning on your own (as long as you don't electrocute yourself).

 

[Roberts210]

Everything has a lifespan. When breakers get tripped and flipped back on too many times they will eventually wear out mechanically so that the trip mechanism trips with a lighter load.