Wayne Dalton Door Failure

[Rudyjr]

I have an 18x8 foot Wayne Dalton 9000 series door installed on my detached garage that appears to be structurally failing. The door is approximately 11 years old and has been well maintained. I have lubed the hinges and rollers regularly as well as had the spring tension adjusted. Recently I had a spring fail and had them both replaced. Upon inspection it appears that inner metal skin is cracking and failing at all of the locations where it has had a sheet metal screw installed in it. It is most apparent where the hinges were installed. It should also be noted that on these doors there appears to be no reinforcement under the skin where the hinges install, only skin and foam. This door supposedly has a lifetime structural warranty. I contacted my buddy who installed and services this door and he said he has never seen this before, (he no longer sells Wayne Dalton doors though). He took pictures and said he will see what he can do. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to handle this? Thanks, Jim

 

[carterbeauford]

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to handle this?

http://www.clopaydoor.com/where-to-buy.aspx

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd probably move the hinge over about 6-8"

 

[s10xtremist]

I used to work for an overhead door company, and Wayne Dalton was our primary residential line. At least back then, it was the top notch brand. I never was a fan of those Foamcore doors in anything over a 12' width, and the problem you're having is the main reason why. The simplest solution is to move it over as Eric suggested. It may last you another 11 years. Maybe even get another hinge and put them on either side of the damaged area. If you wanna go all out, do what the factory should have done in the first place- slip a strut over that support rib just above the hinges, through-bolt it every 18" or so, then screw the hinges to that. You can buy struts from an overhead door dealer. But, keep in mind that the spring tension will have to be adjusted for the extra weight.

 

[Rudyjr]

I used to work for an overhead door company, and Wayne Dalton was our primary residential line. At least back then, it was the top notch brand. I never was a fan of those Foamcore doors in anything over a 12' width, and the problem you're having is the main reason why. The simplest solution is to move it over as Eric suggested. It may last you another 11 years. Maybe even get another hinge and put them on either side of the damaged area. If you wanna go all out, do what the factory should have done in the first place- slip a strut over that support rib just above the hinges, through-bolt it every 18" or so, then screw the hinges to that. You can buy struts from an overhead door dealer. But, keep in mind that the spring tension will have to be adjusted for the extra weight.

Thanks for the tip. I did think about moving it over and adding another hinge to the other side of the damage. What I cant figure out is why this appears to be happening on the field installed side of the hinge in multiple locations. Is the door reinforced differently on the factory installed edge?

 

[s10xtremist]

Looking at your second pic, it looks as if the hinge wasn't completely flat against the panel. They supply screws with these doors that barely fit the holes in the hinges. In fact, they kind thread into the metal because they're such a tight fit. Evidence of this is that the hinge is hanging off the panel, but the screws are still held tightly in the hinge. If the hinge isn't sitting flush to the panel, the screw will still tighten into the hinge only, but not pull the hinge tight to the panel. This leaves a slight gap for the panel's metal to be pulled up by the screw(think if how a mole hill or volcano looks), which makes for a weak attachment. Over time, the screws pull out and the metal is stretched and ripped (cracked). When I would be screwing down all those hinges on a door, I'd see the hinge rise up off the panel as I bottomed out the screw. I would just back out the screw, press the hinge to the panel with my thumb, then run the screw in again. That time, the hinge would stay flush to the panel since the screw's thread caught the hinge and the metal of the panel at the same time and held them together.

All in all, and in my opinion based off your pics and my experience, I'd say this is the result of installer error.

 

[upndown]

Those doors are supposed to have a plate backing the hinge location, on the inside of the skin. That's why you can't just move the hinge 6-8". It may be the picture, but I don't see any evidence of a plate.

That is not a Foamcore door. Having the metal strut under the hinge makes it a Thermoguard or a Thermowayne door. I believe some of those doors came with a Lifetime MFG. warranty. I would call your WD distributor and find out. Good luck..

 

[Rudyjr]

Those doors are supposed to have a plate backing the hinge location, on the inside of the skin. That's why you can't just move the hinge 6-8". It may be the picture, but I don't see any evidence of a plate.

That is not a Foamcore door. Having the metal strut under the hinge makes it a Thermoguard or a Thermowayne door. I believe some of those doors came with a Lifetime MFG. warranty. I would call your WD distributor and find out. Good luck..

This door did supposedly have a Lifetime warranty when I purchased it. There is no plate visible at any of the hinge locations. My buddy who supplied and installed the door said at the time he was installing as many as five Wayne Dalton doors a day and he has never seen this before. As I stated before he no longer supplies Wayne Dalton, he now uses Amarr.
S10 the picture of the hinge that is not flush is one that is failing and the metel is tearing away. The hinges were flush when they were first installed. It almost seems as though there is a reinforcement behind the factory installed side of the hinge and not on the field side. When I removed the factory side it appears to be a single layer of steel as well. I do know that the factory side does fall on the lip of a strut on each panel however. I do not see how that could make a difference though unless the one screw is catching the edge of the strut.

 

[Rudyjr]

Those doors are supposed to have a plate backing the hinge location, on the inside of the skin. That's why you can't just move the hinge 6-8". It may be the picture, but I don't see any evidence of a plate.

That is not a Foamcore door. Having the metal strut under the hinge makes it a Thermoguard or a Thermowayne door. I believe some of those doors came with a Lifetime MFG. warranty. I would call your WD distributor and find out. Good luck..

Well gave the door a closer look and there is "nothing" under the skin at the hinge location other than foam. My friend who installed it contacted the local WD distributor and they wan't to see the door. This door was supposedly their top of the line insulated steel door at the time and did have a "lifetime warranty". So I guess we will have to wait and see what they say. I wish I had some technical specifications on the way the door was supposed to have been made to see if they left out the reinforcements.

 

[Dcampbell98xj]

I also installed doors for many years and my company refused to sell Wayne dalton doors unless the customer specifically asked. Iv seen many of their doors fail and rip apart. There IS suppose to be a reinforcement plate behind the hinge location. Usually they double of the steel in that area. They glue a second piece of 12 gauge steel 4"x6" to the outer layer. Doesn't work. As suggested move the hinge over and get struts to put over the existing struts and through bolt. With an 18' wide door I recommend doing all of those struts. If I'm correct each panel has 2. At the very least add an actually strut to the top strut on each panel. The hinge ripped off because the sections are bowing while the door is open. Soon you will have rollers and more hinges breaking and the door will literally start to rip.

 

[s10xtremist]

That is not a Foamcore door. Having the metal strut under the hinge makes it a Thermoguard or a Thermowayne door.

I forgot about those, and you're right.

 

[upndown]

Rudy, hopefully they send a service tech or a manager to look at your door. If not Email them a few pictures. I would also check all your sections, it may have been a bad run of sections. I would also stand Firm and get them to replace the sections!

Years ago I was sent to their Mt. Hope Ohio facility, it was truly amazing how many sections were pumped out of that plant. Someone dropped the ball..

 

[Rudyjr]

Rudy, hopefully they send a service tech or a manager to look at your door. If not Email them a few pictures. I would also check all your sections, it may have been a bad run of sections. I would also stand Firm and get them to replace the sections!

Years ago I was sent to their Mt. Hope Ohio facility, it was truly amazing how many sections were pumped out of that plant. Someone dropped the ball..

My installer buddy said he did a visit to their Mt Hope facility as well. I guess the local branch is sending out a rep to look at it. We have looked at the rest of the door and out of the intermediate hinges all but 2 have started to pull out. The 3 down the center of the door are by far the worst. My buddy said the same thing about the door sagging when it is up appears to be causing this. I just don't want the thing falling on one of us or our cars!

 

[Rudyjr]

Well rep came out and looked at the door. Said that there was nothing wrong with the installation or anything else that caused the damage. He took pictures and filled out some paper work and said that this particular door is no longer made by WD (no wonder).Also to clarify this is a Thermowayne II door. He said he would submit it to corporate and see what they said. He pointed out that he could not promise anything. I pointed out that the door had a lifetime warranty when I purchased it. He said he would keep me posted. We will seehow this all plays out.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

You had me at "Wayne Dalton"...







...I feel your pain. But also know better.

 

[Rudyjr]

You had me at "Wayne Dalton"...







...I feel your pain. But also know better.

Care to elaborate ???

 

[DeliveryGuy]

Well rep came out and looked at the door. Said that there was nothing wrong with the installation or anything else that caused the damage. He took pictures and filled out some paper work and said that this particular door is no longer made by WD (no wonder).Also to clarify this is a Thermowayne II door. He said he would submit it to corporate and see what they said. He pointed out that he could not promise anything. I pointed out that the door had a lifetime warranty when I purchased it. He said he would keep me posted. We will seehow this all plays out.

It's probably just like Garaga's "Lifetime Warranty". Limited, and full of conditions. Lifetime = 10 to 25 years depending on the model, and reduced by 50% for southerly facing, dark colored doors because of thermal warping in direct sunlight. I can cite sources, too. That's right, your $2000 Eastman Estate has a 12.5 year LIFETIME warranty if your house faces the sun.

I would expect Wayne Dalton's warranty to be comparable.

 

[Rudyjr]

It's probably just like Garaga's "Lifetime Warranty". Limited, and full of conditions. Lifetime = 10 to 25 years depending on the model, and reduced by 50% for southerly facing, dark colored doors because of thermal warping in direct sunlight. I can cite sources, too. That's right, your $2000 Eastman Estate has a 12.5 year LIFETIME warranty if your house faces the sun.

I would expect Wayne Dalton's warranty to be comparable.

I looked up the warranty on a Thermowayne II and it is pro rated to 50% after 20 years. This door is at about the 10.5 year mark so we will see. I had also heard they were really picky about the opener and its attachment to the door. Rep stated he saw nothing amiss with that as well so I guess I just have to wait and see what they say.

 

[allinon72]

I have a Wayne Dalton door and my opener pulled the support bracket right off it. It was just toe nailed into the door with some cheap 1/4" screws.

 

[Rudyjr]

I have a Wayne Dalton door and my opener pulled the support bracket right off it. It was just toe nailed into the door with some cheap 1/4" screws.

No signs of even the slightest deformation on mine and it is attached to the door pretty much the same way. My opener doesn't have to work very hard to lift my door the way it is adjusted. Your opener should have reversed before it pulled that hard. Pretty important that you follow the instructions to a T on the allowable angles for the attachment for the bracket for the opener and the proper spring adjustment of the door. My brother in law ripped a hole in his door with his opener one time I would have rather ripped the bracket off.

 

[allinon72]

No signs of even the slightest deformation on mine and it is attached to the door pretty much the same way. My opener doesn't have to work very hard to lift my door the way it is adjusted. Your opener should have reversed before it pulled that hard. Pretty important that you follow the instructions to a T on the allowable angles for the attachment for the bracket for the opener and the proper spring adjustment of the door. My brother in law ripped a hole in his door with his opener one time I would have rather ripped the bracket off.

My opener is set pretty much in the middle as far as sensitivity to reverse and it still ripped the bracket off. I reinforced with 8 SS self tapping 5/16" screws and it's perfect now.

 

[upndown]

Well rep came out and looked at the door. Said that there was nothing wrong with the installation or anything else that caused the damage. He took pictures and filled out some paper work and said that this particular door is no longer made by WD (no wonder).Also to clarify this is a Thermowayne II door. He said he would submit it to corporate and see what they said. He pointed out that he could not promise anything. I pointed out that the door had a lifetime warranty when I purchased it. He said he would keep me posted. We will seehow this all plays out.

You're doing the right thing! Balls in their court now. They can't dispute the obvious..No backing plate. "Submit to Corporate" My dieing ***! We never had to submit **** to Corporate. Not to sure what their policies are since they Sold Out. It really doesn't matter they should still be required to honor their Warranty. If they try to duck the issue then put on your Gloves and come out Swinging.

Let us know how it turns out, there may be other avenues to pursue. Good Luck!

 

[Rudyjr]

You're doing the right thing! Balls in their court now. They can't dispute the obvious..No backing plate. "Submit to Corporate" My dieing ***! We never had to submit **** to Corporate. Not to sure what their policies are since they Sold Out. It really doesn't matter they should still be required to honor their Warranty. If they try to duck the issue then put on your Gloves and come out Swinging.

Let us know how it turns out, there may be other avenues to pursue. Good Luck!

Not a problem for me! I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt...for now. If I detect any type of weasel on their part it is going to go south real fast. I had no problem paying for what was supposed to be an excellent product with a great warranty at the time. Don't tell me anything other than "we will take care of it" now.

 

[upndown]

 

[Rudyjr]

Well it was officially two weeks today and I had heard nothing from Wayne Dalton so I gave the rep a call on his cell this morning. I had to refresh his memory about the door and who I was which did not really instill any confidence in me about the whole situation. He stated that he had an answer from corporate and that they would replace the door. Then he went on to tell me that the only thing they had comparable was their 9600 series door. The door that I had was a Thermowayne II which was an R12 with the painted hardware which at the time was their high end door. The 9600 is the top end of their "Classic Steel" line, R11 and standard hardware. I don't know a thing about this door other than is is now sold in the big box stores which doesn't sound good to me. My buddy the installer told me to tell them to supply it with torsion springs like my old door and to make it a wind load door and it should be ok. Any thoughts on this?

 

[upndown]

I wouldn't worry about the Box stores, when I worked for WD they supplied and installed for HD nation wide, till HD got too greedy. I agree with your buddy, stay away from the Torque Master! Your door being an 18' should come with the steel reinforced struts, but i'm not sure if they do powder coated hinges anymore.

 

[Rudyjr]

I wouldn't worry about the Box stores, when I worked for WD they supplied and installed for HD nation wide, till HD got too greedy. I agree with your buddy, stay away from the Torque Master! Your door being an 18' should come with the steel reinforced struts, but i'm not sure if they do powder coated hinges anymore.

I would think it would come with struts too but I am not so sure it does. I looked at the specs for the wind loaded door and it shows galvanized struts at all of the integral strut locations. My friend feels that this was the main reason the other door failed. Each panel had two integral struts but only one side had the galvanized strut over it. That side of the panel there was no tear out. He said he thinks one edge of each panel sags in the open position due to the length and weight. Rep said he would check with the factory to see if they would send it that way. At first he said I would probably have to pay the difference, I was not really too receptive to that suggestion.

 

[beltfeed]

http://www.clopaydoor.com/where-to-buy.aspx

I wouldn't put a clopay door on a dog house!

 

[upndown]

Ironic, my insurance agent called me for general service on a door I installed years ago. Same exact door as yours, except his has a glass top section with double track low headroom and almond in color.

Door is still as solid as the day I installed it! Not sure either what they want to charge you for. All your asking for is a door that was built correctly. Stand your ground my friend!

 

[Rudyjr]

Ironic, my insurance agent called me for general service on a door I installed years ago. Same exact door as yours, except his has a glass top section with double track low headroom and almond in color.

Door is still as solid as the day I installed it! Not sure either what they want to charge you for. All your asking for is a door that was built correctly. Stand your ground my friend!

Well we are officially at an impasse. Rep says Wayne Dalton is not willing to add the wind load to the door and is saying that they have done all they will do on an 11 year old door. I told him a lifetime warranty should be just what it says and 11 years has nothing to do with it in my book. I pointed out that we will likely be going down this same road in 10 to 12 years due to their lack of proper reinforcing on a door this wide and tall. He said he is in total agreement with me and my installer that the missing external strut on each panel is what caused the problem to start with and has taken pictures from a ladder in the up position that clearly show just that. I told him that paying for something that they should do anyway was out of the question. He said he was going to push it up the ladder to see what he could do. Not really sure how else to proceed with this.

 

[upndown]

I say ********!! The fact that there are no visable backing plates at the hinge locations is what created your problem. I don't understand how they can continue to skirt that fact

If you'd like I can try making a phone call Monday. Not making any promises, but I'd be more than happy to make the call.

 

[Rudyjr]

I say ********!! The fact that there are no visable backing plates at the hinge locations is what created your problem. I don't understand how they can continue to skirt that fact

If you'd like I can try making a phone call Monday. Not making any promises, but I'd be more than happy to make the call.

According to the rep they quit putting anything behind the skin to back up the hinges several years before my door was built. You really can't find anything online that spells out the construction of their doors. It is amazing though that there is no tear out or any kind of deformation on any of the screw holes located on the lower half of the hinges where the integral strut is covered by a galvanized partial strut. All of the damaged areas are on the other half of the hinges where you are relying on the integral strut to bear the weight alone.
I appreciate the offer to make a call for me I may take you up on that depending on how this plays out! Thanks, Jim

 

[upndown]

According to the rep they quit putting anything behind the skin to back up the hinges several years before my door was built.

LMAO..Now that's funny! I haven't worked for WD since I started my business some 15+ years ago. As far as I can remember those sections had dimples where the hinges went (backing plates) He can't possibly expect you to believe that door skin is going to hold self tapping screws. He's Jerkin your Gerkin. I'd love to have about five minutes with that Clown.

 

[Rudyjr]

LMAO..Now that's funny! I haven't worked for WD since I started my business some 15+ years ago. As far as I can remember those sections had dimples where the hinges went (backing plates) He can't possibly expect you to believe that door skin is going to hold self tapping screws. He's Jerkin your Gerkin. I'd love to have about five minutes with that Clown.

There is nothing behind the other half of the hinges that did not tear out either. Seems odd to me that they would just rely on the self tapping screws in the skin of the door. Like I said I have not been able to locate anything online that shows any kind of construction detail which seems odd to me.

 

[Rudyjr]

Well after several calls back and forth with the rep from Wayne Dalton it looks like we may have this issue resolved. The rep agreed to push it up the ladder because he felt the best way to try to make this door hold up long term was to be build it to their wind load specs. He called this afternoon to inform me that the person at WD that he spoke to agreed to do this at no charge which is really all I was asking for. Looks like we may be finally getting to the end of this. Thanks to everyone with their input on this matter. Especially UPnDown who really went above and beyond to help sort this out. Jim

 

[upndown]

You did the hard work, keeping a cool head isn't always easy! Glad to hear it's working out. Now if I can get these Utah Trout to cooperate we'll both be happy!