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Ways to get to R38

AndrewMarek

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Sep 20, 2022
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Bulverde, Texas
Hello All

To start off insulation is not something I know much about. I’ve done some reading and talking to contractors but not sure that’s been helpful.

We live in central Texas and we are in the process of taking in a 700sqft carport that is under the main roofline and converting to a new bedroom, bathroom, and office and then building a detached garage, shop, and MIL suite. All of the plans for the carport conversion were approved but the city made the comment that the ceiling/roof needed to be r38 vs the r25 that the architect spec’d and everyone bid on. In this area of the house the attic space contains the downstairs air handler and a lot of duct and about 400sqft of decking on top of the joists we use for some various storage. Ceiling joists and rafters are both 2x6s.

The contractors had planned to spray the roof decking with open celled foam to 5.5 inches and that really only gets me to r21 anyway. So I need to get another r17. Can we just add 5.5 of batts (r21) or blown in between the ceiling joists to get there? Do the layers of insulation need to touch? Or can they be additive in the same areas? This approach appeals to me because of the air handler and duct in this area. It should make that more efficient. Would building codes allow this?

Similarly, an alternative I was thinking about was just adding batts and/or blown in to get to r38. We would like to skip the pain in the rear of ripping up that 400sqft deck (osb) on top of the joists. Can we add batts below and blown in above it to get there? Does code allow that?

The insulation guys are basically telling me to spray foam the decking to r21 and get and “engineering study” to show the permitting authority that it’s as effective as r38.

What ever happens I’m paying more than the original bids. I’m probably looking at 1k more for the 1st 2. The engineering study is about 600. But if I’m paying I would like to at least get physical insulation.

I hope all this makes sense. Thank you for any insight you can provide.

Andy
 
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dscheidt

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I would ask to see the statue in writing. There may be a miscommunication somewhere.

Texas uses the 2015 IECC, which requires R38 in zones 2 & 3, which is most of the state, and R49 in zone 4. OP's architect needs some remedial education, if he's producing plans that are 10 years out of date.
 
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AndrewMarek

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Bulverde, Texas
Texas uses the 2015 IECC, which requires R38 in zones 2 & 3, which is most of the state, and R49 in zone 4. OP's architect needs some remedial education, if he's producing plans that are 10 years out of date.
Thank you. The odd thing is several of the builders agree with the architect but in the end the main thing is to get it right. He seems legit. Just built his for ever home a few miles from me in the jurisdiction.
It is an odd situation because we are adding on like we are. A side note. I was looking at the inspection and they added none for the pour over slab even though I spelled that in it in the paperwork and submitted engineered drawings. We will see.
 

loganb

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Omaha, NE
Blown in or batt rolled in the 2x6 cavity gets you approx R20, that with the deck spray gets you there.
 
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AndrewMarek

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Bulverde, Texas
Blown in or batt rolled in the 2x6 cavity gets you approx R20, that with the deck spray gets you there.
This is what I was hoping for. I just didn’t know if the separation would be allowed. I talk to the inspector end of next week.
 
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PCustoms

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Unless I'm missing something, you only have the depth of the joists to work, correct?

Not seeing how you'd get 5.5" of open cell and then batts on top.

If contractor can't do closed cell I'd call around..might have to spray in 2 passes but they can absolutely go that deep.
 

75gmck25

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Alexandria, VA
I have heard of them spraying a layer of closed cell first (maybe 2") to get a complete air seal, and then open cell to whatever depth you want. Not sure of the entire rationale for why it makes sense, but the closed cell does have a little better R value.

We used Icynene open cell (R3.7) on the roof deck and IIRC they sprayed to about 10", which got it up to R37. However, I don't think the inspector even looked at it, since they were familiar with the contractor and had seen their work in other houses.

Icynene open cell may be little higher R value than some of the other open cell foam products and their closed cell is as high as R 6.76.
 

PCustoms

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I have heard of them spraying a layer of closed cell first (maybe 2") to get a complete air seal, and then open cell to whatever depth you want.

When I did mine, I was told 1.5" min for are sealing, so we did my attic "floor" and up the insulation baffles. In reality, I don't think there is anything less then 2" up there. From there I did blown cellulose to bulk the insulation up cheap.

Basement was air sealed in a similar way, "1.5” all around with 4" min on the rim joist.
 
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AndrewMarek

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Bulverde, Texas
Thank you all for the replies. The inspector came for the 1st inspection yesterday and I got a chance to talk about this. I also talked to a friend that is in construction. I think the consensus is to put batts under the existing ceiling/attic decking and then blow in what ever else we need on top to get there. And also put a radiant barrier on the underside of the rafters. The gist is really that area wasn’t designed in a way that doing the spray in would give good bang for the buck without doing a lot of other things.
 

18tyweslow

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Northeast Wisconsin
Thank you all for the replies. The inspector came for the 1st inspection yesterday and I got a chance to talk about this. I also talked to a friend that is in construction. I think the consensus is to put batts under the existing ceiling/attic decking and then blow in what ever else we need on top to get there. And also put a radiant barrier on the underside of the rafters. The gist is really that area wasn’t designed in a way that doing the spray in would give good bang for the buck without doing a lot of other things.
I plan on doing this same thing in my garage. Rockwool batts and blown in cellulose on top to hit R60.
 
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