we all knew it eventually had to happen to Craftsman...
- Thread starter bimmerZ5
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ScottsGT
Well-known member
Lets hope that whomever buys it, takes it back to its glory days of quality Made in the USA tools. I for one would jump back on the bandwagon.
Empty Pockets
Well-known member
Brimmer- It appears that they are in a death spiral
yup... have been for some time now... strangely, to me the parts of their business they are hoping to sell off seem to be the most valuable parts. if that's true, and they have a decent brain, they are probably just looking to recover some investments and then liquidate the rest. if the intention was to fix the business, I would have kept the most valuable assets and tried to sell off/liquidate the other stuff and focus on building up their best brands.
Richard Cranium
Well-known member
They are still swinging. You have to give them a little credit.
i would like to see that too. i have the feeling that's going to take a lot of change that can be expensive. depends on if the investors are taking a short or long perspective on their money.
wasabiboys
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fourjeepin
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Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015
No, it is apparent you do not follow the retail industry as they deserve no credit. Bimmer is right. They are doing it all wrong and selling the best store locations and not investing in their remaining stores. The only reason their stock isn't completely in the toilet is they still have a good many assets to sell, such as the brand names. Oh, and billions in real estate. Can't forget that.
No, it is apparent you do not follow the retail industry as they deserve no credit. Bimmer is right. They are doing it all wrong and selling the best store locations and not investing in their remaining stores. The only reason their stock isn't completely in the toilet is they still have a good many assets to sell, such as the brand names. Oh, and billions in real estate. Can't forget that.
The sooner crafstman gets away from sears mgmt the better, imho. There is a market for something in the old Caman niche. The world needs a stable brand for people to but into, one that is accessible and reliable and doesn't take hoops to jump thru to own or service.
Right now HF seems on the virge of becoming that brand. Or Maybe Gearwrench. But CMAN has become to volatile and inconsistent to really invest {time} in anymore. One can't be bothered to follow their product line or there sales.
Its just too much a pain in the ***.
And the SKU revisions means that any decent products or deals today will be most likely gone by the time a set needs expanding, or a neighbor or friend needs a recommenaton, etc. Toolbrands need some consistency--they need to innovate incrementally--but not simply dumb down or cheapen everything that mildly succeeds.
Right now HF seems on the virge of becoming that brand. Or Maybe Gearwrench. But CMAN has become to volatile and inconsistent to really invest {time} in anymore. One can't be bothered to follow their product line or there sales.
Its just too much a pain in the ***.
And the SKU revisions means that any decent products or deals today will be most likely gone by the time a set needs expanding, or a neighbor or friend needs a recommenaton, etc. Toolbrands need some consistency--they need to innovate incrementally--but not simply dumb down or cheapen everything that mildly succeeds.
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015
The rest of the retail industry is in trouble also. The Internet is killing them.
One un-scientific measure is the sale of women's hand bag at Macy's. Women who are "just looking" still buy purses. Sales are down. Partially from Internet sales and partially from sales at outlet stores.
My daughter has 4 kids under 8. By carefully timing her shopping to the end of each season, she typically buys name brand clothes for the kids at >50% of suggested retail, sometimes >75% !
She has twins and any who has little kids knows they out grow clothes before they wear them out. She can sometime sell the the twins clothes on the Internet for MORE than what she paid for them !
Yep. It is too late for Sears. The spiral is tightening.
The rest of the retail industry is in trouble also. The Internet is killing them.
One un-scientific measure is the sale of women's hand bag at Macy's. Women who are "just looking" still buy purses. Sales are down. Partially from Internet sales and partially from sales at outlet stores.
My daughter has 4 kids under 8. By carefully timing her shopping to the end of each season, she typically buys name brand clothes for the kids at >50% of suggested retail, sometimes >75% !
She has twins and any who has little kids knows they out grow clothes before they wear them out. She can sometime sell the the twins clothes on the Internet for MORE than what she paid for them !
Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015
fourjeepin;5946894 Oh said:They have already sold most of that....
I know most people could care less about COO, but if someone actually did buy Craftsman and began production again in the U.S, I wonder how many Chinese Craftsman tools suddenly broke and need replacement....
I think personally Craftsman is overseas whoever buys them out....
Corndoggeh
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I was thinking about this the other day, because despite Sears going under, the Craftsman, Kenmore, and Diehard brands are too valuable to simple let them hit the gravestone. Is it just me or does anyone else have this thought in the back of their head that maybe Craftsman might be reinvented the same was SK was?
B_Bimmer
Well-known member
We have a gun, a wagon, a scooter, a minibike, countless things around the house as well as many craftsman tools from mechanical to woodworking around the farm. Sears has been around a long time and will always remain a legend in retail, even after they are gone. I am sorry it's coming to this, I blame management entirely, they started out in mail order, owned department stores, and with the least amount of leadership could have transitioned to internet sales, arguably quite close to where they started. I will miss them. To bad ideal already went big with SK. We need American based, family ownership with deep pockets and management skills based in real skin in the game to save anything here.
rjvjeepster
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I think it will be in some form. I wouldn't be surprised if some autopart chain picks up the line, at least hand tools since that's what Craftman is most known for, IMO. Someone like Oreilly where they don't really have a well known line.
Or, Ace will simply be the owner.
Or, Ace will simply be the owner.
James-W
Well-known member
Re: Home Depot Clearance Thread 2015
That's an excellent point! If the company that buys the "Craftsman" name and begins manufacturing the tools here in the US, they will almost HAVE to honor the old Craftsman warranty. A lot of people will get free better quality tools and that MAY discourage a good company from buying the Craftsman name. It will be interesting to find out what happens in the months to come.They have already sold most of that....
I know most people could care less about COO, but if someone actually did buy Craftsman and began production again in the U.S, I wonder how many Chinese Craftsman tools suddenly broke and need replacement....
I think personally Craftsman is overseas whoever buys them out....
anyone who doesn't think Craftsman can make it back to the US isn't thinking hard enough... it's definitely possible, but not the way you think. it's not just going to take being patriotic to do it. you have to do manufacturing a totally different way, not with a factory of workers but a factory of robots. it's going to be a lot cheaper to hire a few guys who can keep the robots running smoothly than to hire guys standing in front of grinders. you'll need some programmers to program the robots, but you only do that a few times until the software is stable. you'll probably have to buy the robots from Germany or Japan to start, hence anyone planning to do this needs to take a long term view on their money... up front investment is high, but once you get the system working and running smoothly, you can have a very efficient factory that will probably beat the Chinese cheap labor.
but that aside, you don't need to beat the Chinese cheap labor. everyone already thinks "China" means crappy stuff... so, you play on that.. you make a cheaper line of tools to be on par with the China stuff, but you mainly focus your development of new tools and marketing on being "better than Chinese" and ask for a 10-20% premium... it will sell, I promise you that, but not in huge volume. that's ok, that's part of the plan... it'll be a profitable sale at least. But more importantly, you start making the brand mean something really positive.. people know they can pay 10%-20% more and get a much better tool and not break the bank for snap-on. Once you have the brand recognition again, remember that "on par with China" tool ?... it's gonna look a lot better because people will associate positive things with the brand... so, even if the quality is the same as China, and the price is the same, they will buy "Craftsman Home tools" brand because the "Craftsman Pro" brand is awesome.
that's how you get it done folks...
but that aside, you don't need to beat the Chinese cheap labor. everyone already thinks "China" means crappy stuff... so, you play on that.. you make a cheaper line of tools to be on par with the China stuff, but you mainly focus your development of new tools and marketing on being "better than Chinese" and ask for a 10-20% premium... it will sell, I promise you that, but not in huge volume. that's ok, that's part of the plan... it'll be a profitable sale at least. But more importantly, you start making the brand mean something really positive.. people know they can pay 10%-20% more and get a much better tool and not break the bank for snap-on. Once you have the brand recognition again, remember that "on par with China" tool ?... it's gonna look a lot better because people will associate positive things with the brand... so, even if the quality is the same as China, and the price is the same, they will buy "Craftsman Home tools" brand because the "Craftsman Pro" brand is awesome.
that's how you get it done folks...
southalabama
Well-known member
Sears is and has been in a death spiral as far as being a retailer. They are a good real estate company. The fund chairman keeps loaning them money. As soon as there aren't enough assets to cover his continued loans shareholders be damned the liquidation will occur. It's about transferring assets and wealth from the company to the person.
The craftsman name has value so long as us with gray hair look fondly upon their tools and remember their glory days and working in the shop with dad. Each passing year that name is being diminished. Sales will be forthcoming for those still wishing to purchase tools from them. Maybe harry Epstein will end up with more nos craftsman USA stuff after the collapse.
The craftsman name has value so long as us with gray hair look fondly upon their tools and remember their glory days and working in the shop with dad. Each passing year that name is being diminished. Sales will be forthcoming for those still wishing to purchase tools from them. Maybe harry Epstein will end up with more nos craftsman USA stuff after the collapse.
you can rebuild the brand with the new generation, depending on an old generation that keeps aging isn't sound business plan. they could spin a new campaign towards lumbersexual crowds, these are the folks that will not drive, but they'll need tools to fix their bicycles, their camping trips, etc. that and also the crowds that are poor enough that they don't always buy new and need to fix things to keep them going... but they are price sensitive, so you have to keep the price point within their reach, but you don't have to be cheaper than HFT as long as they "feel" like they are getting better quality for the extra money. in my part of the world, a lot of Mexicans fit in this space, so you have to start marketing in ways they can relate to.
southalabama
Well-known member
The question becomes why buy the name and pay a premium if you have to rebuild it. Ideal brought S&K back but didn't have to pay a premium. COO doesn't mean much to people as much as it does to those on this board.
kctyphoon
Banned
Lowe's would have the most to gain if they bought the craftsman brand. They are already in every market that craftsman is in, only they have the worst house brand out of anyone. In a single purchase they can put koblat out of its misery, (nobody would even miss it), and replace their entire line of lawn and garden tools and power equipment, power tools, cordless tools, snow blowers, tool bags, hand tools ect, ect, ect..... and replace them all with a well known brand that still has a good following. Overnight Lowe's would be able to be extremely competitive against HD, and the husky/Ridgid lineup. In all the talk that goes on in here, Kobalt is probably the least purchased/talked about house brand. Bury Koblat, and announce the craftsman deployment inside Lowe's as it's sole retailer. Lowe's has the locations, the advertisement, the is already invested in every market as craftsman. They would stand to gain the most from a Craftsman purchase.
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d.mcfarland
Well-known member
Isn't Matco for the most part off shore stuff anyways?
gdocktor3
Well-known member
SK tools should buy them. Then they could sell their USA made line and the Cman China stuff for the homeowners. It would never happen, but it would be nice to be able to buy SK in a big box store. Hopefully HF doesn't buy them.
67King
Well-known member
I'm not as convinced that Craftsman is worth as much as most people think, for a few reasons. COnsumer demographics have changed drastically. There has, IMHO, been a bifurcation. On one hand, you've got folks like us here. Willing to do a lot of stuff ourselves, and value well made tools. On the other hand, you have people who can't even put on a spare tire when they have a flat. As our society becomes more and more specialized professionally, fewer and fewer things are done generally. For example, a generation ago, a few people paid kids in their neighborhood to mow their lawns, but most folks did it themselves. NOwadays, you have pretty sizable landscaping companies serving more and more people who no longer cutting their own grass.
Craftsman used to have a customer base of people who'd maintain their own vehicles, and do their own repairs. That base is very small. Furthermore, as modern cars have more tightly packaged powertrains, more specialty tools are required. Finally, we have become a society more accustomed to disposable consumer goods. People no longer invest in durable goods. Instead of investing in a good toolset, people will buy tools ad hoc, meaning they'll buy the cheapest one on the shelf.
Craftsman used to have a customer base of people who'd maintain their own vehicles, and do their own repairs. That base is very small. Furthermore, as modern cars have more tightly packaged powertrains, more specialty tools are required. Finally, we have become a society more accustomed to disposable consumer goods. People no longer invest in durable goods. Instead of investing in a good toolset, people will buy tools ad hoc, meaning they'll buy the cheapest one on the shelf.
Stooge
Well-known member
meh, good riddance I suppose. the craftsman of today is obviously a shell of the 'affordable, good enough quality, US made' tool company that it once was, and although i'm sure many of us grew up using our dads' craftsman tools, it seems a little silly to try and romanticize it.
I could see one of the other big box stores pick up the name, maybe lowes as mentioned if they wanted to try and cash in on the uniformed market who believe craftsman are still domestically made or atleast of higher quality, (although I think I would prefer a smooth handle kobalt Chinese wrench over a raised panel craftsman Chinese wrench!
) but I could more imagine an oversees company just buying the name to use it to rebadge their own line of goods. something to the effect of 'Craftsman USA' made in china, sort of similar to Neiko USA.
I could see one of the other big box stores pick up the name, maybe lowes as mentioned if they wanted to try and cash in on the uniformed market who believe craftsman are still domestically made or atleast of higher quality, (although I think I would prefer a smooth handle kobalt Chinese wrench over a raised panel craftsman Chinese wrench!
) but I could more imagine an oversees company just buying the name to use it to rebadge their own line of goods. something to the effect of 'Craftsman USA' made in china, sort of similar to Neiko USA.
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Haven't we all had this discussion before? 
Lets all propose Craftsman to become a standalone brand, reinvigorate its industrial brand--USA-made tools for the everyday DIY'er, lets all become shareholders, and let the savings begin
In the present day atmosphere, if Craftsman had "all" of its tools made in the USA (100% USA materials) with its prices 20% (just a tad bit) more than Harbor Freight, I'm sure we'd all be over this
May be its just a dream...
Lets all propose Craftsman to become a standalone brand, reinvigorate its industrial brand--USA-made tools for the everyday DIY'er, lets all become shareholders, and let the savings begin
In the present day atmosphere, if Craftsman had "all" of its tools made in the USA (100% USA materials) with its prices 20% (just a tad bit) more than Harbor Freight, I'm sure we'd all be over this
May be its just a dream...
n8n
Well-known member
I hope not. Lowe's already mishandled Kobalt badly...
I hope that Craftsman is sold to a US owner and that they rebuild the brand into what it was previously; a decent quality US-made line of hand tools that filled the niche between ChiCom **** and tool truck brands.
I hope to see Craftsman back as a USA product but I highly doubt it. I was in Ace the other day and mentioned to a guy next to me that it is too bad that craftsman is mostly china now. His response was basically, " doesn't matter where it is made, if it breaks, just come back and get a new one". We are in a minority in this country of people who want to see USA on their tools or other products. Its a shame.
Sanny81
Well-known member
Isn't Sears rolling out the new Craftsman Industrial line soon? I wonder what's gonna happen with that.
Agreed. 'We' are too much a niche group, and that's not gonna please the bean-counters who are worrying about their investors. I could see Craftsman even becoming a cheaper tool company, both in quality and price. The pipe dream is what has already been mentioned here - putting Craftsman back into Craftsman - but I just don't think it will happen.
C'mon Ace Hardware - buy the Craftsman name!
I can't see Ace Hardware eating 100 years of warranty returns
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Mechanical Noise
Well-known member
Maybe it's worth it, if they get Craftsman at a give away price.
n8n
Well-known member
I think it's a catch-22. Craftsman brand without lifetime warranty is worthless. However trying to increase quality will make lifetime warranty very expensive for brand owner. Maybe it's time to just let Craftsman die a quiet death?