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Weekend project: 40A service to my garage

gonzoengineer

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Nov 29, 2009
Messages
59
Location
Groveland, FL
Hey guys, been lurking here for a bit and decided I should register and post up my never-ending and very slow to progress project.

It started life as an unfinished, unpowered 40' x 32' garage with a 12' x 32' mezzanine above the middle 'bay'. Not much has been made of it to be honest, there have been other priorities on the property to be concerned with and it's been little more than storage for supplies and yard equipment.

As the days grow shorter I'm finding it harder and harder to fit my projects into my schedule as most of the daylight has left me by the time I've returned from work; leaving only the weekends to squeeze in my fun projects, maintenance jobs and chores which can be tough. That said I became fed up and decided that for the time being I need some basic power to the garage to work with for lighting and a handful of receptacles to power my detailing equipment and various tools/devices.

We have three structures on the property at the moment; an equestrian barn for my wife's business with a dedicated 200A circuit, an apartment with an unfinished garage/storage portion with a 100A circuit (a circuit which will be moved to the proper garage down the road) and the garage in question with no power at the moment. We'll be building a house on site in the future (those nagging priorities...) which will remove the need for the apartment. With the current capacity on the separate power into the property (also 200A), I have 80A to work with after subtracting the 100A for the apartment and 20A circuit to the well.

power_01.jpg


Since my intention is to eventually run a 100A service to the facility, this will only be a temporary 40A run I'm setting up until some other priorities can be handled. Even still, I wanted to do things right, hopefully I've accomplished as such.

I dug a trench 18" deep from the breaker box to the garage.

power_02.jpg


power_03.jpg


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I then ran a Romex 4 core 10 AWG wire for two 20A power lines (I will black tape the last 8" of the red power wire at each termination), ground and neutral. Along with it I ran a separate 10 AWG earth wire for additional grounding and to be used later as a pull-string if need be.

power_05.jpg


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For the record I have an 8' copper earth rod at both the breaker box terminal and at the garage itself. For the conduit I used 1" sched 40 in ground with sched 80 for the uprights. I'm pretty sure that is the requirements as per code and thankfully I had just enough laying around.

I'm planning on having a switched light circuit for six 4' fluorescent panels, two bulbs each for one bay, slowly expanding the same lighting setup for the other two bays... The other circuit I plan run three four-outlet breakout boxes along one wall on the second 20A circuit. Here is the first bay I'll be lighting, the wall to the left in the below picture will house the receptacles.

power_07.jpg


I'm thinking of 2x1 timber across the ceiling planks to mount the light fixtures, three abreast.

poweR_08.jpg


Anything I'm missing? I noticed the negative and neutral were bonded in the breaker box (first in circuit), which I hear is normal, are there any concerns I should have with this at all?
 
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mrb

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Dec 31, 2008
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a few things:
- you cannot use romex underground.
- you should not have two grounds
- the neutral bar in the main panel is in bad shape. One wire per hole, and the lug screwed to it is not good. Needs to be cleaned up.
- the device mounted to the panel (is this a surge arrester?) with the wires in the same lugs as the feed needs to go. Fire waiting to happen. The device needs to be supplied from a breaker.

The neutral and ground do get bonded together here since its the service. You need to keep them seperate downstream.
 
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gonzoengineer

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Nov 29, 2009
Messages
59
Location
Groveland, FL
a few things:
- you cannot use romex underground.
- you should not have two grounds
- the neutral bar in the main panel is in bad shape. One wire per hole, and the lug screwed to it is not good. Needs to be cleaned up.
- the device mounted to the panel (is this a surge arrester?) with the wires in the same lugs as the feed needs to go. Fire waiting to happen. The device needs to be supplied from a breaker.

The neutral and ground do get bonded together here since its the service. You need to keep them seperate downstream.

-Can you elaborate on not using romex underground? I was under the impression that it was fine as long as it was within regulatory conduit.

-I suppose that sounded wrong when I described it. I'll have an earth rod at each location for ground. I am running the extra line mainly as a pull-string for future cabling. Or are you suggesting I not use the second earth rod at the garage itself?

-The panel does look a bit untidy, I may take advantage of this occasion to improve upon it. When you mentioned the lugs, are you taking concern with the use of the lugs entirely or just their placement?

-I'm not rightly sure as to the operation of that device. I'll look into it further tomorrow.

One of the electricians from the local power company had setup the main panel box when it was moved to it's current location. It was inspected and approved so I just assumed all was well and paid little mind to it's layout.
 
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mrb

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Dec 31, 2008
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-Can you elaborate on not using romex underground? I was under the impression that it was fine as long as it was within regulatory conduit.

-I suppose that sounded wrong when I described it. I'll have an earth rod at each location for ground. I am running the extra line mainly as a pull-string for future cabling. Or are you suggesting I not use the second earth rod at the garage itself?

-The panel does look a bit untidy, I may take advantage of this occasion to improve upon it. When you mentioned the lugs, are you taking concern with the use of the lugs entirely or just their placement?

-I'm not rightly sure as to the operation of that device. I'll look into it further tomorrow.

One of the electricians from the local power company had setup the main panel box when it was moved to it's current location. It was inspected and approved so I just assumed all was well and paid little mind to it's layout.

- romex is not rated for wet location. the inside of an underground conduit is a wet location. -you should just be using 4 THWN conductors here, not romex. You already have that green, so you just need red/black/white.

-I understand what you meant about the grounds, you cant have one ground in a cable and parallel another conductor along side it.

-the neutral bar, that lug screwed to the top of it in the middle is not kosher. If the conductor wont fit in a hole in the bar, they make lugs with forks that go in the holes in the bar for this purpose.
 

hidollartoys

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K. C. Metro area
- romex is not rated for wet location. the inside of an underground conduit is a wet location. -you should just be using 4 THWN conductors here, not romex. You already have that green, so you just need red/black/white.

I assume that you are running two 20amp/120v circuits from the panel to the shop. If so then #10 wire is fine but not romex as mrb stated. If you are supplying the 80 amps as mentioned earlier then #4 is required, also as mrb stated.
 

mrb

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Nope, just the two 20A lines, as I said this is very temporary with intentions of being in place no more than a year.

well if its temporary, and you really will be removing it, i cant see too much harm in leaving it i suppose. But dont do it again. If its a conduit, it gets individual wires. Romex is for inside.
 

walrus

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Maine
They make a romex like cable, its very similar except its called UF or underground feeder.
 

walrus

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yeah, but why would you ever want to put that in a conduit?

I wouldn't, direct bury, perfect for what he wanted to do, leave the conduit for when he puts the permanent service out there
 

aandpdan

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In between MA and PA
The 1" conduit is going to handicap your future plans. 4 #4 copper is about the best you're going to do.

If you haven't backfilled up it in size. Keep the 1" for your telecommunications cables as you can't run them in the same conduit as the line voltage cables.

Temporary or not, no Romex underground. The paper in the cable will wick up water and bring it into your connections. Use UF (direct burial) or THWN in the conduit.

That device on the box is a surge (lightning arrestor) protector. It should be fused. Short of pulling the meter, I don't see how you can correct that wiring. DON'T EVEN THINK OF PULLING THE METER ON YOUR OWN!

Temporary or not I'd put at least a 125 amp sub panel in the garage now, even with a 30 amp (#10 is only rated for 30 amps) feed. You can add as many circuits as you want when you want, even put in a 220v outlet if you desire. If you're careful with the loads you'll be fine. Then all you have to in the future is up the feeder size and breaker.

You don't have to remark the red as black. It is understood that red is a hot wire.

Hope it helps.
 
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gonzoengineer

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Groveland, FL
The point of entry for the service will be moved when a house is built on the property so I'm not worried about building this little run for the future as it'll be useless in it's entirety once that is done. I'll likely dig up the conduit and cabling for use elsewhere as I don't like to waste things or leave those that are non-biodegradable in the ground if it isn't necessary.

Conduit is already done and in the ground, just gotta run the new wire now since the Romex is a no-no.
 

oleguy

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Nov 22, 2009
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i just might not see it,but it doesn't look like you have the service grounded in the panel next to your meter.unless you put it in since you posted that pic.should go to the neutral/ground buss.
 
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gonzoengineer

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Groveland, FL
There is a grounding rod next to the left post, I also have another to drive in next to the garage. (as stated)

Spyder, go back to the [M], I wrote a short story for you. LOL I didn't buy anything yet, this was all laying about -- thanks to you and mrb I have to go buy stuff! :p

They make a romex like cable, its very similar except its called UF or underground feeder.

Yea, I've been seeing it mentioned quite a bit, would of worked fine for direct bury. I prefer everything to be in conduit though, so I'll go the route mrb suggested and pickup some more THWN.
 
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the spyder

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I kid I kid :-D

Seriously though, if you have any questions tomorrow while doing this and still have my number, give me a ring. I am happy to answer to the best of my knowledge and NEC code.

You said you have a rod, but I believe the issue we are seeing is that there is no ground wire (usually a bare 4awg wire) going in to the neutral/ground bar. This is beyond neglectful on your electricians part (power company or not). I assume its working ok because the 100amp apartment sub panel is properly grounded. (I see the black neutral/ground coming up next to the feed wires on the bottom of the box.)

On my mention of the well breaker on the other board- What is your pump size and wire size? It may have been undersized in the first place, causing your pressure switch to burn out.
 
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walrus

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Yea, I've been seeing it mentioned quite a bit, would of worked fine for direct bury. I prefer everything to be in conduit though, so I'll go the route mrb suggested and pickup some more THWN.

To each his own, where its only going to be there for a year why bother with conduit. Drop it in and forget about it
 
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gonzoengineer

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Groveland, FL
The Spyder, I lost your number, and embarrassingly, I can't remember your last name. :( If you don't mind, shoot me a PM.

We have 36"x4 bulb T8 light fixtures in the barn -- should I continue the trend with 36" fixtures in the garage so we only need to keep a single style of bulb on hand or would the light output be superior with the 48" bulbs to the point it'd be worth having different styles?
 

35mastr

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To each his own, where its only going to be there for a year why bother with conduit. Drop it in and forget about it

Till one of your kids decides they want to pitch a tent there and drive a stake through the wire.

Use the conduit. Its just cheap insurance.
 

walrus

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Till one of your kids decides they want to pitch a tent there and drive a stake through the wire.

Use the conduit. Its just cheap insurance.

Like pvc is going to stop a stake? and at 18" your kids must be more driven then mine:bounce:
 
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gonzoengineer

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Groveland, FL
Well I finished up the run and converted to the Romex in the pass-through from the outside wall. (I need to recharge my camera so I can take some pictures) I'm now working on the wiring inside for the wall outlets and overhead outlets for the lamps.

I believe I have everything sorted, except the grounding. I made up a diagram of how I intend to wire it, and I am open to criticism before I progress any further. I didn't illustrate the grounds terminating as I'm unsure of the best way to execute that portion. I've seen in the past wirenuts used to split the ground and neutral (as illustrated) lines as necessary but I don't really like the idea of using them, especially if another option is available.

wiring.jpg
 
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gonzoengineer

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Groveland, FL
I really don't want to, but I don't see any other reasonable solution. :p I think I'm going to pickup some deeper outlet boxes, just to give me a bit more room for the wire nuts.
 
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