Weight as an indication of quality

[whateg01]

Whenever the topic of toolbox selection comes up, one of the things people mention, and with good reason, is that a heavier toolbox usually means a better toolbox. Thicker metal means stronger, stiffer drawers, and of course more weight.

I don't need another toolbox right now, but I was thinking that my socket drawer is awfully full, and one solution would be bigger drawers. I also just like looking at toolboxes; I don't know why. Anyway, FBMP knows that I like looking at toolboxes. A KRL722 popped up tonight that looks nice. Probably worth the money, if I was so inclined. I don't know if I am or not. Anyway, I was looking up specs for the KRL722 and wondered how they compared to specs for similarly sized boxes.

KRL722CPC, per snap-on's page, has a net weight of about 500#. (Shipping weight is 550#, but I don't know what that means. Can't be 50# of cardboard, but maybe a crate?) The Icon 56134 has product weight of 664#. (Shipping weight of 820#, just for comparison.) I haven't operated either, so I don't know how the drawer slides feel, or other factors in whether I would like one better than the other, such as how the drawer pulls feel, or how the drawers lock in place. But if I was using weight as the primary indication of quality, the Icon has a clear and definitive advantage being almost 33% heavier. No doubt, when we start talking about value, often a "lesser" tool comes out on top because it just doesn't cost as much, but in terms of just "better", how much weight should weight have in deciding which box comes out on top?

 

[nadogail]

Generally speaking, better quality products are often made with heavier gauge metal.

 

[cvairwerks]

Got to compare "apples to apples". While both boxes are similar, there are differences in dimensions. The Icon is slightly deeper, a little longer and several inches taller than the Snap On. The Icon also has spring loaded casters which are much heavier, weight wise than the casters on the KRL box. The Icon also has a bunch of electrical stuff in it for chargers that adds some weight but reduces drawer volume some.

 

[AEAdam]

I think if you did the math, the difference in sheet metal gage thickness wouldn’t be all that much. So when GJ talks weight, I think we get it wrong. @cvairwerks has it right.

1. Compare size
2. compare number of drawers- Kennedy chests are very heavy and not particularly stout boxes. Why? It’s the shear number of drawers.
3. Quality of drawer slides makes a big difference. I think the slides are probably heavier than the drawers. They are also expensive, so more drawers = more weight and more cost.
4. The spring loaded casters are a very nice feature and very heavy.

My advice- No way I’d pay retail for a HF box instead of a similarly priced or cheaper Snap On KRL. I think the advantage of HF boxes is that they are the cheapest boxes available in their size category. For the asking price of an Icon, you can get a really nice used Snap On box. Not just Icon, all the “intermediate” priced boxes are the same. They rival the cost of better quality used pro grade boxes.

I’d also buy a used Porsche as a daily driver rather than a new Kia. FWIW, I did both. My KRL is 25 yrs old. Paid $700 for it which was cheap then. Probably worth double that now. Just needed a little TLC.

 

[seber]

When I look up similar size for both, the US General is much lighter. Snap-on 54" is 489 lbs. while the US General 56" is 366 lbs. even though it is wider and taller. That is a huge difference and I'm quite sure you will see it in any service other than occasional garage storage.
When I look at the Icon, I see that it is more comparable to the Epiq not the the KRL. There are no similar sizes to compare.

 

[AEAdam]

When I look up similar size for both, the US General is much lighter. Snap-on 54" is 489 lbs. while the US General 56" is 366 lbs. even though it is wider and taller. That is a huge difference and I'm quite sure you will see it in any service other than occasional garage storage.

KRL slides are rated for 225lbs per set? Vs what, 90lbs in the US General?

I replaced a couple slides under warranty on my KRL and they were beasts. The ball bearings are enormous. Slides alone could account for the difference in weight.

I’ve worked out of both boxes and the difference in feel is immediate and obvious. That said. What is that feel worth to you? When comparing a $500 US general to a used $1500 KRL, I think many here learn to love the US General.

The OPs problem is really comparing a $2500 Icon box to a $1500 or even $2000 used KRL. I’d pick the KRL in a heart beat. I suspect the Icon boxes are not huge sellers for HF.

 

[whateg01]

KRL slides are rated for 225lbs per set? Vs what, 90lbs in the US General?

I replaced a couple slides under warranty on my KRL and they were beasts. The ball bearings are enormous. Slides alone could account for the difference in weight.

I’ve worked out of both boxes and the difference in feel is immediate and obvious. That said. What is that feel worth to you? When comparing a $500 US general to a used $1500 KRL, I think many here learn to love the US General.

The OPs problem is really comparing a $2500 Icon box to a $1500 or even $2000 used KRL. I’d pick the KRL in a heart beat. I suspect the Icon boxes are not huge sellers for HF.

Probably regional, but I rarely see a used krl for less than 2k. Most want 3k or more.

 

[GeoBruin]

I don't know how we got to talking about the USG, but in terms of the Icon (which the OP asked about), the Icon also has 12 drawers vs 9, which adds a lot of weight in terms of extra steel and of course slides etc.

It's not surprising that being slightly wider, and having more drawers, and spring casters, it would be heavier. The steel used in the Icons may even be as thick or thicker than the snap on. The Icons are not bad boxes. I think the issue that most have is that for the cost, you're getting well into used Snap-on territory (as evidenced by the comments above) which is a tough pill to swallow for some.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Shipping weight from SO should include the pallet. Layout is a factor as others said, having replaced SO slides a pair of those for a 30 deep box you could swing like a club and split someones head open. I would believe any box of similar capacity would have these heavy slides so that accounts for weight. The drawers themselves are relatively lightweight, even an empty 30x72x6 drawer is just awkward. I could throw a drawer from my 36x30x4 cart probably 20ft with one hand.


So long as the dimensions and layout are the same I would agree your weight idea has some merit. If it is below a certain threshold for a given size, the box will be weak and floppy with low drawer capacity. More mass=more good is probably a general rule because a heavier box will typically skew towards heavier components which should have more weight capacity. It's not like they're building these boxes with plate steel on the bottom to up the weight and trick you.

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

KRL slides are rated for 225lbs per set? Vs what, 90lbs in the US General?

I replaced a couple slides under warranty on my KRL and they were beasts. The ball bearings are enormous. Slides alone could account for the difference in weight.

I’ve worked out of both boxes and the difference in feel is immediate and obvious. That said. What is that feel worth to you? When comparing a $500 US general to a used $1500 KRL, I think many here learn to love the US General.

The OPs problem is really comparing a $2500 Icon box to a $1500 or even $2000 used KRL. I’d pick the KRL in a heart beat. I suspect the Icon boxes are not huge sellers for HF.

The Icon box uses a much bigger and heavier slide then the US General. Icon is 265lbs per pair to be exact. Compare apples to apples.

For me I won't spend almost $2k for a 30 year old tool box off FBM. They are dented and scratched up.

I am a SO hater because the rep in my area said he won't stop at my shop because I don't have 3 techs. He said "hire more techs and I will come to you, until then you can call me and meet me wherever I am at". HF is a block out of my way on the way to work and I don't have to chase them trying to buy products.

 

[AEAdam]

The Icon box uses a much bigger and heavier slide then the US General. Icon is 265lbs per pair to be exact. Compare apples to apples.

For me I won't spend almost $2k for a 30 year old tool box off FBM. They are dented and scratched up.

I am a SO hater because the rep in my area said he won't stop at my shop because I don't have 3 techs. He said "hire more techs and I will come to you, until then you can call me and meet me wherever I am at". HF is a block out of my way on the way to work and I don't have to chase them trying to buy products.

Somebody else brought up USG. I was just trying to explain the mass difference, if the sheet metal gages are similar and they might be. Not trying to deceive anyone or change the subject.

BTW my 25yr old KRL looks pretty great. Came with a stainless steel top. It’s in the Show us your toolbox thread. Again it was 7 or $800, I forget now.

 

[Hakeem]

I don't know how we got to talking about the USG, but in terms of the Icon (which the OP asked about), the Icon also has 12 drawers vs 9, which adds a lot of weight in terms of extra steel and of course slides etc.

It's not surprising that being slightly wider, and having more drawers, and spring casters, it would be heavier. The steel used in the Icons may even be as thick or thicker than the snap on. The Icons are not bad boxes. I think the issue that most have is that for the cost, you're getting well into used Snap-on territory (as evidenced by the comments above) which is a tough pill to swallow for some.

Yeah the Icon boxes look pretty badass. My biggest hangup would be the support. Will they honor the lifetime warranty 10 years from now? 20 years? Not a huge deal if a company welches on the warranty for a ratchet, it’s a 1-2 hundred bucks to replace. But if you can’t get replacement slides for an otherwise-functional box, you might have to replace the whole thing.

I’m not a huge Snapon fan but at least you can be sure you’re getting quality and that they’ll support their products.

 

[i7083]

First thing I thought when I saw this title was "Wow, I must be top-notch quality!"

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

Somebody else brought up USG. I was just trying to explain the mass difference, if the sheet metal gages are similar and they might be. Not trying to deceive anyone or change the subject.

BTW my 25yr old KRL looks pretty great. Came with a stainless steel top. It’s in the Show us your toolbox thread. Again it was 7 or $800, I forget now.

Idk where people find these deals on SO boxes. I just looked at the Dallas Craigslist postings and the cheapest box was a 80th anniversary 55" top box for $1,500. Maybe its just the DFW because FBM and Craigslist listing are full of overpriced **** like this that never sell...

 

[mreisner]

Snap on comes on a pallet and cardboard, Icon comes on a pallet covered with a crate.
I have a 722 and it is very well built.

 

[charbar]

Don't they both list the gauge of steel they use?

 

[CGarage]

I’m not a huge Snapon fan but at least you can be sure you’re getting quality and that they’ll support their products.

Until they do not. The warranty is not infinite. And often times the replacement part that is sent out, is not equivalent quality to what was originally manufactured and supplied a decade ago. That has been my experience with replacement caster wheels and drawer slides I had replaced under warranty about 2 years ago. I respect Snap-On for offering the warranty replacement but I got Chinese made replacement parts of inferior quality to what originally came with my box and cart.

The Taiwan made Icon boxes look great and I would have no problem owning one. I think, I would rather have it than a Snap-On box. My .02 pence.

 

[CGarage]

I wish Icon made a 6 or 8 drawer rolling tool cart. The USG rolling tool cart with 6 or 8 full drawers has thicker sheet steel than the equivalent Snap-On boxes, which surprised me.

 

[whateg01]

I wish Icon made a 6 or 8 drawer rolling tool cart. The USG rolling tool cart with 6 or 8 full drawers has thicker sheet steel than the equivalent Snap-On boxes, which surprised me.

What expectation do you have for an icon cart if the usg is already heavier than the snap on?

 

[AEAdam]

I wish Icon made a 6 or 8 drawer rolling tool cart. The USG rolling tool cart with 6 or 8 full drawers has thicker sheet steel than the equivalent Snap-On boxes, which surprised me.

Sure, but again, not throwing shade, sheet metal thickness is not the right measure. Weight may not be either.

I’d say you don’t go car shopping and compare models based on weight. They are just more complicated than that.

 

[AEAdam]

What expectation do you have for an icon cart if the usg is already heavier than the snap on?

Our factories use either Lista/Vidmar or Epiqs on final assembly. The Epiqs have the tool control.

Space uses bluepoint roll carts which I thought was funny (not great).

I personally would not look down my nose at Icon boxes. You just have to watch the opportunity cost. As far as everyone’s favorite USG, I’d need to be okay with the drawer latches. I never got used to them and don’t love them. The KRL latches are smooth and light.

I also would not decide based on drawer capacity, but rather build quality and feel. (When pricing is similar). When HF is 1/3 used Snap On it’s a no brainer, and so many GJ members have gone that route happily.

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

Sure, but again, not throwing shade, sheet metal thickness is not the right measure. Weight may not be either.

I’d say you don’t go car shopping and compare models based on weight. They are just more complicated than that.

Just thought about this... I wonder if anyone has reviewed these boxes based on the locking systems. Depending on your work environment that should be your number one concern opposed to "I can stand in my drawer" or "look my box won't flip over when every drawer is opened".

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

What expectation do you have for an icon cart if the usg is already heavier than the snap on?

I have the full bank USG cart and love it. What i don't love is the drawers are not soft close and I wish It had the Icon drawer latches.

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

Don't they both list the gauge of steel they use?

HF lists all that in the product description. I have yet to see that on any SO product description. Honestly the SO site is pretty terrible and lacks in depth photos of their products. Its 2025 you can do better then 1 photo of a 84" box!

 

[larry_g]

I’d say you don’t go car shopping and compare models based on weight. They are just more complicated than that.

Maybe not cars, but defiantly do when buying tractors.

 

[whateg01]

The series 2 boxes that I have use friction detents to keep the drawers closed. I hate the latches on the older boxes. Those are the ones with a little slide thing at one end. I liked the grip latch that craftsman used and I think may be what is on the masterforce boxes. Very intuitive and smooth to use.

 

[micromind]

First thing I thought when I saw this title was "Wow, I must be top-notch quality!"

Me too, funny how one letter can make such a huge difference........lol.

 

[richfinn]

Don't know the weight or anything but I would be looking at one of these if I had to do it all over again.

Rousseau Mobile 11 Drawer 60 Inch Red Toolbox

Rousseau's 11 drawer cabinet is perfect for a heavy-duty setup. Boasting 650mm extra deep and lined drawers, they're perfect for small and large tool storage. Equipping these toolboxes with their 180kg rated drawers with lifetime rolling mechanism, Rousseau give you confidence that your...

www.everard.co.uk

 

[whateg01]

Don't know the weight or anything but I would be looking at one of these if I had to do it all over again.

Rousseau Mobile 11 Drawer 60 Inch Red Toolbox

Rousseau's 11 drawer cabinet is perfect for a heavy-duty setup. Boasting 650mm extra deep and lined drawers, they're perfect for small and large tool storage. Equipping these toolboxes with their 180kg rated drawers with lifetime rolling mechanism, Rousseau give you confidence that your...

www.everard.co.uk

Those appear to have drawn slides similar to the lista/vidmar/Stanley cabinets here.

 

[richfinn]

Those appear to have drawn slides similar to the lista/vidmar/Stanley cabinets here.

Same box that Tekton sells (made in Canada)

180kg is almost 400lbs per drawer!!!!

 

[GeoBruin]

I really like the Rousseau boxes. Tekton only sells the deeper ones now (27"?) but Rousseau still carries the 24" deep models which is the sweet spot for me.

 

[whateg01]

Same box that Tekton sells (made in Canada)

180kg is almost 400lbs per drawer!!!!

I see tekton sells a 60*30 box with only full width drawers. That looks mighty appealing.