weld brass

[pyro3256]

a friend who ask me to fix all kinds of weird stuff. out of the blue ask me "can you weld brass?" so i say sure it possible, can I weld brass, "i'll try"

im not sure exactly what it is yet. but knowing her im guessing its some nick nack home decore stuff. any way it got me to thinking how would i do it.

i know i could just braze it with a parent metal rod and flux.
but i would be worrried about color of finished work.

a quick search tells about TIG with a parent metal rod. but i dont have access to TIG

so i figure i can OA, OF weld. but what type of flux if any? neutral, oxidizing, carbon flame?

also i know not all "brass" is created equal. worried about zinc content and burn off.


need help!!!!

 

[csp]

If you're OA aren't you essentially just brazing anyhow?

 

[dogdog]

not an expert but interesting, I just know tig didn't worked well for me at all maybe I over heated it too much that as soon as the weld turned puddle it have some white deposits and fumes. ... maybe some one can comment if those silver solder like what those hvac guys use will work.... but they are a little expensive, cost me $60 for 28 stick of stay silv 15 ebay prices, these are supposedly made for copper to copper joints. or that silver braze 50% ones with the proper solder paste I am still looking for to try and join those carbide to my hole bore thiggy ma jiggy.

 

[racingtadpole]

If its not structural (which being brass its most likely not) I would silver solder it. Fast, easy and cheap.

 

[Ed ke6bnl]

not an expert but interesting, I just know tig didn't worked well for me at all maybe I over heated it too much that as soon as the weld turned puddle it have some white deposits and fumes. ... maybe some one can comment if those silver solder like what those hvac guys use will work.... but they are a little expensive, cost me $60 for 28 stick of stay silv 15 ebay prices, these are supposedly made for copper to copper joints. or that silver braze 50% ones with the proper solder paste I am still looking for to try and join those carbide to my hole bore thiggy ma jiggy.

from my experience the stick are great for copper to copper no flux, you will need silver braze with the proper flux for copper to copper copper to brass and brass to brass and copper brass to steel works great and I have had strong bonds. this is what I got last purchase http://www.ebay.com/itm/380896064871 and the flux at https://www.carbideprocessors.com/account.php they also sell the solder a bit more money with shipping but these people know there stuff.

 

[MoonRise]

brass = copper + zinc (sometimes with other stuff in there as well)

melting point ~1500F to 1880F

bronze = copper + tin (sometimes with other stuff in there as well)

melting point ~ 600F to 1900F

If you are melting the parent metal workpiece(s), then you are welding.

If you heat the parent metal workpiece(s) to over 840F and join them with a metal filler that melts, then you are brazing.

If you join the workpiece(s) with a molten metal filler than melted at a temperature less than 840F, then you are soldering.

Brass can be joined by welding, brazing, or soldering.

But welding can be a bit tricky because the zinc in the alloy melts and vaporizes at a lower temperature than the alloy mix as a whole does (melting point of zinc is 787F). So once you melt the brass, the zinc tends to vaporize (boil).

If brazing, you would usually use a flux (powder/paste) for brazing brass. Check the product catalog(s) of the brand you are using or considering using to see what filler and flux combo they recommend for brazing brass.

Multiple ways to get the job done.

But first, get the piece/part and evaluate what is needed to do the job.

It might be soldering, or maybe brazing, or welding. Or maybe an adhesive will be 'enough'.

 

[jimgood]

If you're OA aren't you essentially just brazing anyhow?

Not necessarily. With OA, you can weld with no filler of any kind. Straight fusion welding.

 

[welder4956]

I have welded brass with TIG with fair results. As long as it is not leaded brass, you can make a decent weld. I have welded brass hose fittings and my last weld on brass was a reindeer antler that broke off a Christmas candle holder. I used ERCuSi-A for that and it was a good color match. If the part is thick enough, it can be MIG welded. At work we have brass pump impellers repaired by MIG overlay occasionally. Soldering with a propane torch may be an option if color match is not an issue. The same solder and flux used for copper pipe and tube will work fine.

 

[doojus]

^He could probably use ERCuSI (Silicon Bronze) TIG filler and braze it with O/A. When you use ERCU with TIG you're essentially brazing anyway.

 

[shawnspeed]

I have O/A welded, brass valves that were split...used regular flux coated brazing rod, plus extra paste flux on the backside...puddle & dab just like anything else...had no pin holes..Shawn

 

[csp]

Not necessarily. With OA, you can weld with no filler of any kind. Straight fusion welding.

Ah yes, you're right. For some reason I had filler of some sort pictured in my mind with any of the processes under consideration.

 

[welder4956]

^He could probably use ERCuSI (Silicon Bronze) TIG filler and braze it with O/A. When you use ERCU with TIG you're essentially brazing anyway.

If it is ERCuSi on steel, it would be called braze welding. But with ERCuSi on brass, they both have about the same melting point, so it is a weld. Brazing relies on capillary attraction of the filler metal into a narrow gap.

 

[pyro3256]

always surprises me the amount of people who think OA is not true welding. i take it as the same as TIG just a different heat source. i use TIG rods for aluminum and SS.
thanks for the replies! i still dont have the piece, may never. but i found it an interesting question.thought i would pass it along. i may have to find me something to practice it on.

 

[dogdog]

from my experience the stick are great for copper to copper no flux, you will need silver braze with the proper flux for copper to copper copper to brass and brass to brass and copper brass to steel works great and I have had strong bonds. this is what I got last purchase http://www.ebay.com/itm/380896064871 and the flux at https://www.carbideprocessors.com/account.php they also sell the solder a bit more money with shipping but these people know there stuff.

Thanks Ed. Good info.

 

[EvilWelder]

It depends on the grade of brass, some will TIG very nice on DC, others will only run on AC. I went down this road on a job I was doing, come to find out the "brass" was actually aluminium bronze.

 

[Zeke]

brass = copper + zinc (sometimes with other stuff in there as well)

melting point ~1500F to 1880F

bronze = copper + tin (sometimes with other stuff in there as well)

melting point ~ 600F to 1900F

If you are melting the parent metal workpiece(s), then you are welding.

If you heat the parent metal workpiece(s) to over 840F and join them with a metal filler that melts, then you are brazing.

If you join the workpiece(s) with a molten metal filler than melted at a temperature less than 840F, then you are soldering.

Brass can be joined by welding, brazing, or soldering.

But welding can be a bit tricky because the zinc in the alloy melts and vaporizes at a lower temperature than the alloy mix as a whole does (melting point of zinc is 787F). So once you melt the brass, the zinc tends to vaporize (boil).

If brazing, you would usually use a flux (powder/paste) for brazing brass. Check the product catalog(s) of the brand you are using or considering using to see what filler and flux combo they recommend for brazing brass.

Multiple ways to get the job done.

But first, get the piece/part and evaluate what is needed to do the job.

It might be soldering, or maybe brazing, or welding. Or maybe an adhesive will be 'enough'.

Moonrise, that's the best explanation I've read yet. And I've been the skool on this.

I would add that if the part is broken or fractured, silver braze is the way to go. If new metal needs to be added, it would be tough to match the original metal color unless the piece has patina and can be re-patinated/

 

[harvey29]

I say OA it and show pics TIG is not the only welding option

 

[zkling]

^He could probably use ERCuSI (Silicon Bronze) TIG filler and braze it with O/A. When you use ERCU with TIG you're essentially brazing anyway.

Yep. I've always tig brazed it. Problem with brass and OA brazing rods for that matter, is that they contain zinc which boils off at a lower temp than the high portion copper will melt at. If you get a lot of popping, fizzing an otherwise strange puddle activity, you are beyond the threshold. Now bronze is quite a bit easier. Just a note, that gas torch brazing rod is different than electric arc brazing rod (zinc content). So if you do purchase some make sure your supplier is aware of what you are doing.

It depends on the grade of brass, some will TIG very nice on DC, others will only run on AC. I went down this road on a job I was doing, come to find out the "brass" was actually aluminium bronze.

Agreed, unless you have it in your hand or have talked to the manufacturer, the copper based alloy family ID gets pretty muddy by the masses. Typically in my experience, if it is a some piece of department store art, they are full of junk that make them very difficult to work with. Mechanical pieces and larger high dollar sculptures are much cleaner.

 

[xdrag48]

Harris sells Silicon Bronze .035 2Lb Spools for mig welders.You use it with 100% Argon gas.

Steve