Welder advice

[dtrojcak]

It seems I got more than I expected with the included cord.
He told me it was about 50'.
I stretched it out and it's closer to 90'.
I wired it directly into my breaker panel and it will reach all the way to the opposite corner of the carport on the front of shop.
I was going to post pictures, but I'm unable to log into the forum with Tapatalk at this time, not sure what's going on there as it worked fine yesterday.

Anyway, thanks again to all who offered advice.
Now I just need to get some metal and rods and get to melting metal, lol.

 

[sberry]

The cord should have a plug in to a recept.

 

[dtrojcak]

Tapatalk is working now.

So this is not ok for the cord?

 

[sberry]

No, it is considered using a cord for permanent wiring. Not saying it hasn't been done but it should have a recept and a plug. It doesn't hurt to leave a long cord on but while one is going thru the trouble run an outlet to its "home base". Number 10 in pipe would be ideal.

 

[dtrojcak]

No, it is considered using a cord for permanent wiring. Not saying it hasn't been done but it should have a recept and a plug. It doesn't hurt to leave a long cord on but while one is going thru the trouble run an outlet to its "home base". Number 10 in pipe would be ideal.

Only #10 ?
I thought 50amps required #6 wire.

I plan on running EMT/wire to its 'home' simply so I don't have to unroll/roll up the cord every time.
This will be a short term solution.

 

[sberry]

Your AC/DC buzzer only requires a 12 if single circuit in pipe with 50A breaker. It comes with a 12 cord. 10 is a huge leap, big reduction in Vdrop. The wire can be duty cycle rated for welding machines. That machine pulls about 38-40 on the DC side and wide open at rated on AC is 48A @ 20%
Its actually legal and safe on a 10 cable.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Only #10 ?
I thought 50amps required #6 wire.

I plan on running EMT/wire to its 'home' simply so I don't have to unroll/roll up the cord every time.
This will be a short term solution.

Since welders have a duty cycle less than 100% at their maximum amperage output (and thus maximum amperage input), they are legally allowed to use a much smaller gauge wire for an extension cord (does this also apply for hardwiring- anyone know?). 6 gauge wire is rated for 50 amps at 100% duty cycle. 10 Gauge can do 50 amps in shorter bursts just fine. The wiring is legal as long as it is only used for low duty cycle machines.

I still used 6 gauge because you never know when you're going to need it to be 100% duty cycle, and the voltage drop over long runs is much less than 10 gauge.

 

[dtrojcak]

It's not that much difference in price between #10 and #6, as my circuit would only be about 50' or so.
I'd rather spend a little extra now so that I would never have to worry about rewiring that plug.

Thanks again for the advice/tips.

 

[lilredex]

Dude cool setup. It looks like you made the most of a very small space there. Where are you working out of now ?

Yes, it was very compact. It was filled in, unused space under that balcony.....about 6 X 6 Ft plus storage under the stairs. Moved on to a double about 25 years ago.

 

[byoungblood]

Only #10 ?
I thought 50amps required #6 wire.

I plan on running EMT/wire to its 'home' simply so I don't have to unroll/roll up the cord every time.
This will be a short term solution.

Because very few welders are rated 100% duty cycle at their maximum output (ones that can are usually generator welders or are heavy duty industrial welders that you don't move around), there is actually a separate table for supply wiring when dealing with welders.

My Miller CST-280 is rated 100% up to 150 amps (200A max on single phase) output and Miller includes a #10 power cord with it.

 

[sberry]

If you use a welder that actually needs a number 6 wire most need a breaker bigger than a 50 so then the circuit is no good for 50A machines. A buzzer is 48A input at rated, it comes with a 12 cord. The onlist machines need bigger than a 10 cable (if you ran them that hard) are 250 mig, some come 8 cord and have high duty cycles.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Because very few welders are rated 100% duty cycle at their maximum output (ones that can are usually generator welders or are heavy duty industrial welders that you don't move around), there is actually a separate table for supply wiring when dealing with welders.

My Miller CST-280 is rated 100% up to 150 amps (200A max on single phase) output and Miller includes a #10 power cord with it.

That's for extension cords only though, no? Putting an outlet on the wall still requires the proper sized wiring since there is no way to known that the 50 Amp outlet is duty cycle limited? I know it applies to extension cords, I'm just not sure that it applies to permanent outlets.

 

[dtrojcak]

This info actually helps me out quite a bit.
3 #6 wires would have require me to purchase more 3/4" EMT.
3 #10 wires will fit in my leftover 1/2" EMT.

 

[sberry]

Actually it would be 2 number 6 and a 10 but there is nothing wrong with 3 10's in a pipe and under some circumstances it could be 2. The 10 is fine especially single circuit in pipe, doesn't get any better than that.

 

[dtrojcak]

Actually it would be 2 number 6 and a 10 but there is nothing wrong with 3 10's in a pipe and under some circumstances it could be 2. The 10 is fine especially single circuit in pipe, doesn't get any better than that.

So I only need two #6 and a #10 for a full duty 50amp circuit?
I may run that just in case I ever need it for something else.

The #10 connects to the neutral, not the ground in the panel, correct?

 

[sberry]

10 to ground. There is no real reason for 6 unless you want a kiln or oven, there is nothing else to plug in to it. I spose in theory you would use a 7.5 comp but it only needs it if its in cable, 8 in pipe and 8 in pipe for the 250 mig. 10 will even supply the mig in short circuit especially in a home garage.
There are welders that call for 6, these do not come factory cord and use breakers up to and in some cases over 100A which means it cant be used for smaller machines.
Thousands of these circuits are done with future proofing in mind, I have never seen it used.

 

[sberry]

Last thing I did required remodel, nothing I would have done the first time would have come in to play. If yo get something substantial new it should have a dedicated circuit, best future proofing is to leave some means to get back to the panel vs dry walling it all up tight.
I recently saw a 100A in a garage, 1 circuit in it, no access.

 

[sberry]

Skip all the forethought, put in a circuit you need now, make another if and when its needed.

 

[dtrojcak]

So 3 #10s hooked to hot hot and ground should be good?

This is in a metal building, no plans of ever covering up any conduits.

 

[sberry]

Yes, pipe and boxes screwed to building steel and it doesn't get any better. The main reason for surface is easy install additions and changes. Nothing better than a single circuit piped to a recept for a welding machine, no wire splices etc.
Should the need ever arise run another circuit with proper wire.

 

[sberry]

I have a couple with 6, free wire at the time. I added several since, mostly 10 and only a few ft long. Some have 30 just because they are homes for 200 class mig, they wont need a breaker change, one shares circuit with my hoist motor.
Modern tigs use 50A breakers, old ones need special circuits as they do not come cord and plug. Its something I would want in its own pipe and not likely to pull it thru an existing later.

 

[dtrojcak]

From the panel to the plug would be 50' or so.
Would #10 still be ok for that length?

 

[Cope]

My first welder was an Airco 225 amp stick running on #10. When I moved I had my recept mounted just below my breaker box and was running #8 on a 50 amp breaker. When I moved to this house in 1986 I ran 75' of 6/3 from a 50 amp breaker.Got the wire wholesale. It may be overkill, but I don't have to second guess either. My old Miller Model 88 calls for 58 amp breaker to run wide open.

 

[dtrojcak]

I finally took the time to find the manual online.
It says to run #10 wire.
Says to use #8 for runs over 100'.
Mine should be 50-60', 75' max, so #10 it is.