Welder advice

[dtrojcak]

I have a Lincoln AC/DC tombstone stick welder.
I want to weld some pipe cattle pens just behind my shop.
Furthest point would be approx 100’ away from my plug, so I would need to either make a suitable extension cord or make longer welding leads.
I’m leaning toward the longer leads because they would allow me to leave my welder parked under a workbench and still be able to reach all across in the area where I normally weld.
Currently I have to move the project close enough to reach with my current 12’ leads.

Would the longer leads be the better option?
I’m not opposed to using an extension cord, but the leads would be more convenient for any future projects.
I haven’t compared the cost of both options, but I’m not concerned with $ over safety/reliability. TIA

 

[chrispyny]

Neither. Rent a generator/welder for a day. Or week.

 

[sberry]

Lead is handy, cord is cheaper.

 

[Bretny]

How long are the leeds on the welder now? Most dont come with much more than 10ft leeds. However i would not put 100' leeds on it. You can get alot of line loss on 10ft of wire.

 

[dtrojcak]

How long are the leeds on the welder now? Most dont come with much more than 10ft leeds. However i would not put 100' leeds on it. You can get alot of line loss on 10ft of wire.

I think the rod lead is 13’, ground lead about 2-3’ shorter.

 

[dtrojcak]

Another possible option would be to use a generator.
I have a 4000watt generator with a 30A outlet.
30A is 60% of the 50A max input of welder.
I haven’t welded above 75A DC, which is 60% of the 125A max DC output of welder.
Would the generator be big enough to run the welder at that reduced output?
I’d have to build a 30A to 50A adapter, but that would be much cheaper than the longer cords.

 

[mike93lx]

Another possible option would be to use a generator.
I have a 4000watt generator with a 30A outlet.
30A is 60% of the 50A max input of welder.
I haven’t welded above 75A DC, which is 60% of the 125A max DC output of welder.
Would the generator be big enough to run the welder at that reduced output?
I’d have to build a 30A to 50A adapter, but that would be much cheaper than the longer cords.

I don't think a transformer welder will run on that small of a generator. an inverter would probably be fine.

 

[dtrojcak]

I don't think a transformer welder will run on that small of a generator. an inverter would probably be fine.

Biggest inverter I have is only 2000watts and only 120V.
A 4000watt/240V inventor would probably be a lot more expensive than longer leads.

 

[sberry]

That machine takea a 10K genset. It would be cheaper to buy a inverter like an Everlast 160 but,,, the machine you have now will work with number 1 leaf at that distance easy, and even number 2 really. It will also run from 100 ft of 10 cord.
Lead isn't cheap, but I like some on the machine, so much easier to hop around on projects, trailers, trucks etc. The machine you have is very good, good arc and very durable. When adding leads cut off a foot outside the machine and add connectors or even split bolts at that point. The factory are well soldered in the machine and I would rather not disturb it.
I have Ys on mine, grounded to benches booth and building and set of leads for bench and another for outdoor.

 

[mike93lx]

Biggest inverter I have is only 2000watts and only 120V.
A 4000watt/240V inventor would probably be a lot more expensive than longer leads.

No, an inverter welder is what I meant. Transformer Welders use tons of power at any Welding output.

 

[GaryM909]

I would prefer to leave the machine parked under the bench and pull the leads as needed.

 

[dtrojcak]

Another option I hadn’t bought of before now.
Coincidentally, a portable cattle chute popped up in my FB marketplace.
I could build the chute where my welder currently sits, then move and install the entire thing where I need it using my tractor.
Welding it under a roof and on a concrete slab would also be more ‘comfortable’ than out in the open.
This project would likely take me several days/weeks to complete, so I would be able to still work even if it was raining.
I already have good lighting where I normally weld, so that’s a plus as well considering it gets dark about an hour after I get home now, and I’ll be getting home after dark in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for everyone’s advice, but I think this may be my best option.
The long leads would only be used for this one project, so that would be a lot of money invested that wouldn’t get used again.

 

[MoonRise]

Longer welding leads.

To run that welder off of a generator would take a 15 kw generator. It's almost an FAQ on the Lincoln support pages.

https://lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/generator-size-detail.aspx

Or borrow/rent an engine-drive welder.

You'll need 200 feet (100 for the electrode lead and 100 ft for the work clamp aka 'ground' lead). Which means you should use either #2 or #1 welding wire to be able to run 125-150 amps output (typical for 1/8" electrodes).

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-...ges/selecting-proper-size-welding-cables.aspx

Plus some connectors to wire in your longer leads to your welder.

You're looking at north of $300 in wire and connectors, unless you find something used.

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/welding-cable/

Or

http://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/spider.pl?304-1170||1|449|||1.35

for a slightly better price. 200 ft of plain black #2 'standard' welding cable is $250 there.

Plus at least 2 pairs of quick connects (suggest cutting the cable into two sections, like 50+50 or 30+70 unless you are always wanting to haul 2x100 ft of welding cable all over the place, which means 4 pairs of quick connects).

http://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/spider.pl?05040||1|503|||12.99

Lenco LC10 quick connect pair, $13 each pair. x4 = $52 for the connectors

 

[SteveH-CO]

I could build the chute where my welder currently sits, then move and install the entire thing where I need it using my tractor.

A better idea - bringing Mohammad to the mountain, as it were!

 

[Bert_]

Lead is handy, cord is cheaper.

Great answer.

That said 13' of lead doesn't cut it. 25-50' is fine most of the time.

 

[PugetDude]

I built a 52-step steel staircase at my old lake place that required me to use 100' of lead. (one wire). Used an old Lincoln buzzbox AC. it was too heavy to pack up and down the hill.
I just left the welder at the top of the stairs and grounded it to the stringer with the short ground lead. Hooked up 2 50' leads in tandem with Lincoln plugs. Worked my way down the hill, no real issues with amperage loss ( I did turn it up one click whn I got to the very bottom)
It worked fine. Those old Lincoln's with copper windings were bulletproof.

 

[sreeb]

You are doing tubing so you don't need big rod or lots of amps. I would try 3/32 rod and the genset first if you can borrow one.

 

[dtrojcak]

if you have some pointers for building a spot timer, please, lets hear them. I thought that an adjustable 0 - 5 second timer with activation switch plus 30 AMP relay in line with the power source to the welder should do the trick. If the activation switch was tied mechanically to a foot operated clamp that might be okay to. Sometimes during clamping or shortly after I notice the parts have moved slightly first weld or just plain going to be welded in the wrong place so a separate switch from the clamp operation may be better. At any rate the switch on the welder will have to be accounted for closed if activation is to be external.



That is as far as my thought process takes me. Can you enlighten me further?

Commented on wrong thread???

 

[mike93lx]

You are doing tubing so you don't need big rod or lots of amps. I would try 3/32 rod and the genset first if you can borrow one.

Output amperage doesn't really matter. Still needs a 10-15kw generator

 

[RustyJunk]

I don't know how your building is situated but rather than buying leads how about using the money to install an outlet where you want to work.

 

[sberry]

Tailoring a circuoit is always a good thing. I aint scared to run or even move a wire.

 

[Muggzy]

How long are the leeds on the welder now? Most dont come with much more than 10ft leeds. However i would not put 100' leeds on it. You can get alot of line loss on 10ft of wire.

You're gonna run into problems if you extend the output leads. Huge losses if you go 100' (200 out and back) . The current on the input is much lower.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[mike93lx]

You're gonna run into problems if you extend the output leads. Huge losses if you go 100' (200 out and back) . The current on the input is much lower.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

So just turn it up

 

[driz]

Another option I hadn’t bought of before now.
Coincidentally, a portable cattle chute popped up in my FB marketplace.
I could build the chute where my welder currently sits, then move and install the entire thing where I need it using my tractor.
Welding it under a roof and on a concrete slab would also be more ‘comfortable’ than out in the open.
This project would likely take me several days/weeks to complete, so I would be able to still work even if it was raining.
I already have good lighting where I normally weld, so that’s a plus as well considering it gets dark about an hour after I get home now, and I’ll be getting home after dark in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for everyone’s advice, but I think this may be my best option.
The long leads would only be used for this one project, so that would be a lot of money invested that wouldn’t get used again.

The stubby little leads any of the later model tombstones are half useless. I put up with mine for a while then got 30’ of lead cut it in half and got a set of twist Tweco twist connectors. After that I could do my thing without dragging the beast all around. Much much handier IMHO. Mines a 1999 rig and doing anything large was a pain prior to doing this. I just gave mine it’s 20 yr overhaul and stuck it on a tombstone sized platform made of 1/2” plywood scrap on 4 cheap HF castors. Let’s me move it around readily and keeps it up further out of the crud on the shop floor . Now it’s handier yet.

Just a thought if you HAVE to do it way out there. What about scoring a cheap HF wire feeder on sale or off Craigs list. Buying a roll of #12 Romex and making a temporary extension cord out of it. Would that pump enough juice at 100’ ?? Somebody must know on here. Those little wire feeders are handy and you can still use the house wire for whatever years later somewhere.

Personally if it was me I’d build it in front of the shop then trailer or chain sling it with the tractor bucket to move into place when it’s ready.

 

[dtrojcak]

The stubby little leads any of the later model tombstones are half useless. I put up with mine for a while then got 30’ of lead cut it in half and got a set of twist Tweco twist connectors. After that I could do my thing without dragging the beast all around. Much much handier IMHO. Mines a 1999 rig and doing anything large was a pain prior to doing this. I just gave mine it’s 20 yr overhaul and stuck it on a tombstone sized platform made of 1/2” plywood scrap on 4 cheap HF castors. Let’s me move it around readily and keeps it up further out of the crud on the shop floor . Now it’s handier yet.



Just a thought if you HAVE to do it way out there. What about scoring a cheap HF wire feeder on sale or off Craigs list. Buying a roll of #12 Romex and making a temporary extension cord out of it. Would that pump enough juice at 100Â’ ?? Somebody must know on here. Those little wire feeders are handy and you can still use the house wire for whatever years later somewhere.



Personally if it was me IÂ’d build it in front of the shop then trailer or chain sling it with the tractor bucket to move into place when itÂ’s ready.

I’m now thinking my best option will be to build it in front of the shop, under the carport, then move the entire assembly when it’s complete.
Doing it this way will eliminate two big issues.
1. I won’t have to purchase 100’ of welding cables that I would only use for this one project.
2. It would eliminate the urgency of completing it in a few days.
I’m replacing an existing wood chute, which will need to be removed before the pipe/metal chute could be installed.
This would leave me with no chute until the metal one is completed. Murphy’s law would guarantee that I would need the chute before the new one was completed.
Building it offsite would allow me to complete it at a more leisurely pace.
Once it is completed, I could remove the old wooden chute and install the new pipe chute in a matter of hours, thus minimizing the absence of a chute.

I will be purchasing some 25-30’ leads as well.
With those, I could leave the welder parked under my workbench and still be able to reach to the end of the 20’ carport slab.
I have a few extra HF 18”x30” furniture dollies laying around. Mounting the welder to that would make it easy to move if I ever needed to.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice/suggestions.

 

[mike93lx]

I’m now thinking my best option will be to build it in front of the shop, under the carport, then move the entire assembly when it’s complete.
Doing it this way will eliminate two big issues.
1. I won’t have to purchase 100’ of welding cables that I would only use for this one project.
2. It would eliminate the urgency of completing it in a few days.
I’m replacing an existing wood chute, which will need to be removed before the pipe/metal chute could be installed.
This would leave me with no chute until the metal one is completed. Murphy’s law would guarantee that I would need the chute before the new one was completed.
Building it offsite would allow me to complete it at a more leisurely pace.
Once it is completed, I could remove the old wooden chute and install the new pipe chute in a matter of hours, thus minimizing the absence of a chute.

I will be purchasing some 25-30’ leads as well.
With those, I could leave the welder parked under my workbench and still be able to reach to the end of the 20’ carport slab.
I have a few extra HF 18”x30” furniture dollies laying around. Mounting the welder to that would make it easy to move if I ever needed to.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice/suggestions.

I put my AC225 on a furniture dolly. It helped, but the small wheels means it can't roll across rough ground. Just strap it to a 2 wheel dolly instead. Much easier to move it

 

[Wrench97]

I have one of those old Lincolns they run great for what they are on the stock length leads but I tried adding 50'ers I had and it welds like ****, 15-20' is about all you can go without effecting how it runs.

 

[dtrojcak]

I put my AC225 on a furniture dolly. It helped, but the small wheels means it can't roll across rough ground. Just strap it to a 2 wheel dolly instead. Much easier to move it

If I add the 25’ leads, I would very rarely need to move it from under the workbench.
I’d be able to reach 99% of the things I’d need to weld without moving the welder.
The furniture dolly would be primarily used to move the welder to clean or to retrieve the nut/bolt that was dropped and bounced behind it, lol.
My work area is a concrete slab, so rough ground is not a concern for me either.
I do like the idea of strapping it to a 2wheel dolly and welding hooks/slots for hanging my helmet, gloves, rods, etc off of it as well, and I may look into that option as well. Thanks for that suggestion.

 

[sberry]

If it's sized up the lead doesn't hurt much. I have 50 on each side for decades.

 

[sberry]

If you think 25 is going to be enough put 25 or 30 on the ground and 35 on the stinger. It's hard to make them longer. It cost a little extra but spend it up front. It makes it so much easier to work around projects especially out door, pull ups, around cars or trailers.
This is excellent for working on equipment. I use the same work/ground for plasma.
Got an extension and clamp from the bench. A pic of pieces I actually stripped out that had morphed on over time. I took out a bunch of snot.

 

[dtrojcak]

If you think 25 is going to be enough put 25 or 30 on the ground and 35 on the stinger. It's hard to make them longer. It cost a little extra but spend it up front. It makes it so much easier to work around projects especially out door, pull ups, around cars or trailers.

This is excellent for working on equipment. I use the same work/ground for plasma.

Got an extension and clamp from the bench. A pic of pieces I actually stripped out that had morphed on over time. I took out a bunch of snot.

My organizational skills are not on par with yours, but your pics give me some ideas.
From the garage door to the end of carport slab is 20’.
I plan on storing the welder under the bench, to the right of the air compressor, about 5’ from door, so a 35’ lead is a good idea.
I’ve had another suggestion to upsize the extended cable, then use quick connects and use the original 10’ or so cable on the end so I’m not fighting the extra weight of the bigger cables while actually welding.
I plan on buying a plasma cutter before this project, so the idea of sharing a ground lead is a good suggestion as well.

 

[sreeb]

Output amperage doesn't really matter. Still needs a 10-15kw generator

Really?

It is just a big transformer with taps. Input current is directly related to output current.

Input current will be about (output current)/4.

 

[mike93lx]

Really?

It is just a big transformer with taps. Input current is directly related to output current.

Input current will be about (output current)/4.

Power requirements on a transformer welder aren't linear and there are significant I rush demands. Plus if you stick a rod, current draw will spike.

I bet you couldn't run at 75 amps on a 30amp generator.

 

[strutaeng]

Yeah, you need a huge generator for that welder. It's a known fact.

I was going to suggest

(a) longer leads

(b) longer extension chord

(c) small 120V inverter machine with longer chords. They are so inexpensive now. Flux cored will also work

Seems like OP figured it out? 25-30' long leads are a must for working on medium to large sized/implements projects in a shop environment. The longer the better!

 

[sberry]

Ya, if I was a serious guy would get 100 ft, 60/40 and could do it with number 2. With 1/8 electrodes could simply leave it on, put a stinger and a clamp on, no connections, maybe make a jumper out of the old for a ground extension etc, split it to a bench even. I always had 2 stingers and a connected bench back in the day, still do really. Can go to the bench or vise and make up something without dragging the leads back off a project. A nice long stinger lets a guy walk out around projects, I am so used to doing it that miss it when they too short, cant whip over to the other end for a tack up.
I finally buy a piece for my Max, even as small as it is a pain for construction, drag 3 cords, the ground, electric and the stinger. 25 ft on that makes it a lot more friendly for some projects.