welder choice

[Johnydoe]

well im out of welding school and looking to pick up a welder. i really liked the millers at achool but they were huge and cost like 5000$...im looking for a stick/tig welder of good quality thats easy to adjust(dial or digital....no auto detect stuff plz) and wont break my budget...

now i was looking at the Miller Multimatic 200, because i cant afford anythng more than 2000$ right now, and this seems like a good tool and versatile, but i dont know how good the stick/tig is...

as for mig i would be looking to buy a small lincoln mig welder....so im basicly looking for a really good tig/stick welder thats not over 2000$...but i dont like the ones with auto detect settings, i like to adjust everything myself...and i defenitly want one with high frequency for tig.


my uses for this machine would be basic garage fabrication and car/truck work(tog for body work, and stick for heavy stuff) and i would buy a separate mig machine down the road.

i currrently have an old "motomaster A/c 295amp" welder that i inherited from my dad, but it welds like ****, thinking it may be broken(cant strike a decent arc even with 6011) so i figure i should just upgrade



btw, just because my budget is 2000$, if i can save and get cheaper but still have good quality machine then i would go that route

 

[just a noob]

Search Craigslist for a used Miller syncrowave 250

 

[Johnydoe]

Search Craigslist for a used Miller syncrowave 250

yeah that looks like a good welder, very similar to what we had in school if its not the same model lol...but the cheapest i found used locally is 2800, ive seen on ebay cheapest used is 2000 plus shipping to canada...very nice machine but i dont think i could afford that right now....is there something comparable but cheaper? or should i just wait and save up more?

 

[fitz11]

I didn't think the multimatic had high frequency?

 

[Murphy4570]

Practice with your dad's AC welder some more, and turn the amps up. AC stick welding is a PITA compared to DC. 6011 rod doesn't like to strike an arc under 90-100 amps in my experience. Works very well around 130 amps.

Can't go wrong with Miller or Lincoln. Expect to spend some serious coin if you want a TIG machine. $2K used budget is about right, so you're on track there. Keep an eye peeled on craigslist.

I have a Miller Econotig myself. Fairly spartan and light-duty TIG/Stick welder. Nice little machine.

 

[Coach James]

Around here, you will be on Social Security before a decent welder shows up on Craig's List. If there is a welding supply near you, I would see if they have any used machines.

Does it have to be a single unit? If not, something like this might work:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hobart-ez-tig-165i-tig-welder

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hobart-stickmatereg;-lx-235-ac-160-dc-stick-welder

Coach

 

[Johnydoe]

I didn't think the multimatic had high frequency?

i dont think so either, which is why i was asking advice here, lol...i dont know much on all the different brands out there and what is good and what is not...i know miller because thats what we used in school...but it was all the same welders, so we didnt get any experience on different machines...anyways, looking for any advice on choosing one. in the end i guess ill choose what i think is right for me and my budget, but i still like to hear ppl's opinions who have more experience with different machines

 

[Johnydoe]

Around here, you will be on Social Security before a decent welder shows up on Craig's List. If there is a welding supply near you, I would see if they have any used machines.

Does it have to be a single unit? If not, something like this might work:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hobart-ez-tig-165i-tig-welder

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hobart-stickmatereg;-lx-235-ac-160-dc-stick-welder

Coach

no it doesnt have to be one single unit, but the price of those units combined is more expensive than the used miller syncro250

 

[Johnydoe]

Practice with your dad's AC welder some more, and turn the amps up. AC stick welding is a PITA compared to DC. 6011 rod doesn't like to strike an arc under 90-100 amps in my experience. Works very well around 130 amps.

Can't go wrong with Miller or Lincoln. Expect to spend some serious coin if you want a TIG machine. $2K used budget is about right, so you're on track there. Keep an eye peeled on craigslist.

I have a Miller Econotig myself. Fairly spartan and light-duty TIG/Stick welder. Nice little machine.

i cant strike a steady arc using 6011 and with machine cranked up to max power..couldt rin a bead, it would just spark and sputter....and stick a whole lot..rods are good they are from school and i got a few different kinds(7014, 7018dc, 6011..) all same result


thx for the info and advice

 

[RM209]

Search Craigslist

Yup, Craigslist is the way to go if you're looking for a welder. Lots of used ones at good prices; just be patient, and eventually you'll find one that's been gently used.

RM209

 

[Seiler]

Thermal Arc might be more in your price range for a TIG/Stick welder. It's what I used in school and I thought they did well.

 

[sberry]

Here is the thing, lots of advice here and some of it good but,,, seeing as how you don't have any welder get a compact 230V mig, the Lincoln from the box store is fine and start with that or one of the Hobarts. This is the machine 98% of first timers should get first.
Your experience can be misleading, what one uses in school is different than real world demands. Next or near close should be a AC/DC buzzer. Save for a deal on a tig when it comes along and find out if you really need it. The mig is the real workhorse of small garages.
But,, there is likely simple reason the one you have now doesn't work, adequate circuit? Poor connector? Not many of them dont work.
While the Multimatic is a fine machine its really on my short list, could buy individual units for less. This is almost a first,,,, Miller copied the Chinese with that model.

 

[Hammell]

Have you considered an older diesel driven welder. They are loud and heavy beasts but deliver lots of power, generator, 400 amp, can handle air arcing. Tow it on a trailer. and can be had for good prices. seen them for 1500-2000 bucks. your could do heavy welding with them, save up and buy a nicer welder down the road.

 

[Johnydoe]

Thermal Arc might be more in your price range for a TIG/Stick welder. It's what I used in school and I thought they did well.

thx for the heads up on this machine, never heard of them before, but seems like a simple machine to set up, which i like, i guess what i dont like is the HF button on the torch its self, would it be possible to change the torch out for a reg torch and foot pedal?

 

[JoeFin]

I don't know where you guys are getting your prices around here and can only surmise a bunch of Eboner sellers jumped on this thread and posted the prices they WISH they could get for their used machines

Right now in my garage is sitting an old Miller 330 B - cost to me FREE. Guy said it was too big and he wanted it gone. Of course it came with 40 gal cooler and bottle for the 300 amp water cooled tig torch all on a nice mobile cart. Most guys I know who have owned these say they wish they had never given it up

Along side it sits a cute little Lincoln 175 Square Wave machine with cart and bottle on a nice stainless steel cart. All in pristine condition. I paid $1000 for it to the original owner

Next to that sits a Miller 304 with the XR "Push/Pull" Aluminum Wire Feed Gun. This was the most expensive of all at $1500 at auction

Of course I also have a Lincoln LN-25 witch was a very good deal at auction for $275

All this amongst the over priced bastion of the too much money buyers of Kalifornia

Look Kid - $2000 should tool you up pretty darn good if you look for yourself and stop listening to sellers

 

[Johnydoe]

Here is the thing, lots of advice here and some of it good but,,, seeing as how you don't have any welder get a compact 230V mig, the Lincoln from the box store is fine and start with that or one of the Hobarts. This is the machine 98% of first timers should get first.
Your experience can be misleading, what one uses in school is different than real world demands. Next or near close should be a AC/DC buzzer. Save for a deal on a tig when it comes along and find out if you really need it. The mig is the real workhorse of small garages.
But,, there is likely simple reason the one you have now doesn't work, adequate circuit? Poor connector? Not many of them dont work.
While the Multimatic is a fine machine its really on my short list, could buy individual units for less. This is almost a first,,,, Miller copied the Chinese with that model.

yeah im not against the inverter welders, chinese i would steer clear from, on any product lol..i would rather something made in another country even if it is a chinese copy(chinese uses bad quality components, cheaper metals ect...) as for mig, in genral i dont use much mig, or wouldnt have much use for it, i like my stich for the heavy dudty stuff, and tig is what i really need to practice on, its also what i would like to use for my doby work repairs, and also for smaller repairs and fabs that need to look nicer(stainless manifolds ect)...

that being said i like the thermal arc mentioned above, it seems to do all i want(i wont have a need for anything over 200 amps at the moment)...the only thing im not likeing on it is the tig torch setup and it also doesnt have AC for aluminum tig

Have you considered an older diesel driven welder. They are loud and heavy beasts but deliver lots of power, generator, 400 amp, can handle air arcing. Tow it on a trailer. and can be had for good prices. seen them for 1500-2000 bucks. your could do heavy welding with them, save up and buy a nicer welder down the road.

yeah thats way too big, lol

 

[Johnydoe]

I don't know where you guys are getting your prices around here and can only surmise a bunch of Eboner sellers jumped on this thread and posted the prices they WISH they could get for their used machines

Right now in my garage is sitting an old Miller 330 B - cost to me FREE. Guy said it was too big and he wanted it gone. Of course it came with 40 gal cooler and bottle for the 300 amp water cooled tig torch all on a nice mobile cart. Most guys I know who have owned these say they wish they had never given it up

Along side it sits a cute little Lincoln 175 Square Wave machine with cart and bottle on a nice stainless steel cart. All in pristine condition. I paid $1000 for it to the original owner

Next to that sits a Miller 304 with the XR "Push/Pull" Aluminum Wire Feed Gun. This was the most expensive of all at $1500 at auction

Of course I also have a Lincoln LN-25 witch was a very good deal at auction for $275

All this amongst the over priced bastion of the too much money buyers of Kalifornia

Look Kid - $2000 should tool you up pretty darn good if you look for yourself and stop listening to sellers

thx for the advice man, this is what i plan oto do, is just ask advice then make my own mind up....god gave us brains for a reason lol

anyways tax returns comming in on the 4th of july and i am looking for a decent welder to buy with that $

 

[cherokee140]

I would say look hard at what you really are going to be doing. "heavy stuff" is a pretty big term. Biggest thing I do is some farm machinery repair, and I just go over it a few times.

I am by far not a welder but I can stick metal together and it usually stays put. Car stuff you really don't need much in the way of "heavy stuff" unless you are doing race car cages or something like that.

Nothing says you can't buy a small machine to do what you need to do now, and if you find a need to grow into a bigger one I doubt that small machine will sit in the corner unused....I like my small machine...it is just so handy to take out in the field with a generator if I need to.

 

[Johnydoe]

I would say look hard at what you really are going to be doing. "heavy stuff" is a pretty big term. Biggest thing I do is some farm machinery repair, and I just go over it a few times.

I am by far not a welder but I can stick metal together and it usually stays put. Car stuff you really don't need much in the way of "heavy stuff" unless you are doing race car cages or something like that.

Nothing says you can't buy a small machine to do what you need to do now, and if you find a need to grow into a bigger one I doubt that small machine will sit in the corner unused....I like my small machine...it is just so handy to take out in the field with a generator if I need to.

heavy stuff for me would be anything 1/4" to 3/4"...i dont think ill be doing much more than that...i like to build trucks(bug mud trucks) and yes roll cages are a must of you go in the rocks, or just for stabilizing the chassis twist....other mods are cutting the back half of the truck(frame and all) to put together a new frame and cage...my axles are 1/2" wall tubing,...anyways i hope you get the picture...nothing huge, but this is what i call heavy duty garage work, lol....not industrial welding, but basic large stuff for the home garage worker....

 

[sberry]

You are a poster child for a mig and this is what I mean about advice.

Have you considered an older diesel driven welder. They are loud and heavy beasts but deliver lots of power, generator, 400 amp, can handle air arcing. Tow it on a trailer. and can be had for good prices. seen them for 1500-2000 bucks. your could do heavy welding with them, save up and buy a nicer welder down the road.

 

[Johnydoe]

well after much debating, i think i will go with the thermal arc, it seems to do pretty much everything i would need other than aluminum(ac)...but i figure if i really need i can just convert my ac stick welder to tig if i really need...

im thinking about getting the thermal arc/tweco fabricator 181i....for 1000$ it seems to do most everything i need and from what i been reading i havnt really found anyone unhappy with the product.


so now im just undecided between the 181i and the 211i....price difference is only 300$

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Fabricator-3...t=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item1c3b4c9d92

what do you guys think? i figure after i buy leads and gas bottles and accessory stuff im pretty much at my 2000$ budget, so which model should i go with, is the 211i really worth the extra $?

 

[ttpete]

From what I can see, you'll be very limited in what you can do with the tig on that machine. There's nothing mentioned about HF, either start or continuous, and there's probably no way to use a foot pedal with it. The torch will be air cooled, and that will severely limit duty cycle, especially using higher amperages. I'd be skeptical about duty cycle with stick and MIG as well.

My impression is that it'll do a little bit of everything, but not much of anything.

When I was looking for a welding machine, I found a shop that had one for sale. It was a Miller Dialarc 250. Hadn't been used in years, and filthy. It was complete with everything except the gas bottle. Cost me $1000. I got it home and cleaned it up. All that was wrong was that they had connected the cooler pump wrong and had blown out a hose on the torch. I got a new hose and a bottle of argon, and was ready to go for both TIG and stick. I then found a 250 amp Century MIG machine with a Tweco gun in good shape complete with a gas bottle for $500.

There's good equipment out there at reasonable prices, it just takes a bit of looking.

 

[Johnydoe]

hey guys, found this in the local classifieds...but i cant tell what model it is nor if the price is good or not, can you guys tell me what you think?

www.kijiji.ca/v-autres-outils/ville...eur/601066462?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

[brownbagg]

im not a big fan of mig welders, I hate my miller mig welder, to me the ultimate welder would be a lincoln pipeliner, but that just me. and they are $7000 used

 

[sberry]

A mig is the workhorse in these types of shops.

 

[sberry]

Geeze, just out of school and spinning from the experience. Stop and take a breath. Most of the advice in this thread is ****. If you have a shop you do repair work in buy a fukkin mig, a machine you will eventually want and will get the most use. A rust bucket broke engine drive isn't for you and likely neither is a pipeliner and this comes from someone that has been there, I got 2 I got no used for now.

Leave the worry of tig for later, a Mig and either a used AC/DC buzzer or new Maxstar type 150S. These are the first machines for a young career or shop and wont end up with a dino that cost in the 1000's you don't use, got to haul, store, run on 4$ an hour of fuel that goes stale and gums the thing up when you don't. You will use the 2 basic machines for rest of life.

 

[sberry]

I probably wouldn't buy another engine drive machine today if I wasn't specifically going in the biz where I needed one but w2ould put the Maxstar on a simple 5K genset many of those I might buy very little used, I think Shade at SFT paid 400 for 4500 watt new, runs on eye dropper of fuel.

I got a 300A stick machine in my shop, never use it. Never use more than 1/8 lo hi, some 1/8 6011 but if its real welding I am all over a 250 mig if humanly possible. I have one, I bought it when I was contracting and its worth keeping because I am a career welder and it earns its keep on occasion but really I do or can do or could do about 99% of it with a 180 mig.

There is such a huge pool of resource in sheet metal anymore and so much products are designed lighter than ever, so much less of the world is done with heavy structural steel type work as was prevelant back in the day.
I made same mistakes, bought a 200 before a DC buzzer and my last portable should have been the first.

 

[sberry]

With a 180 mig or Max a guy can fabricate all day for 5 dollars in materials and 50 cents in electricity. The overhead and debt will soon kill the joy of this except for a few of the super coached or savvy and they aint askin for opinions here.

 

[sberry]

I hate to say it but if I was starting over would consider one of those green China ******* runs efficient multi voltage for about 250$ 1/8 6011, 3/32 7018 and a can of 7018 in 1/8 you can run from 240V.
I got a Max,,, I bought it a few yrs ago and have the MVP which I like but really need only 120.

There are obviously differing career paths and welding is a trade level skill but distinct in some manners. A guy can catch up to tig if he ends up in a place where its the need but in a glace or 2 good stick skills are un mistakeable and it usually does come with some training. Every once in a while I see some self learned types do real well with this but I also get a fair share say,,, wish someone would have shown me that 20 yrs ago.

There are some internet types on some other forums that express this differently but there were times I was an azz and certainly lack current practice but there is no doubt when I pick up the tool I can do it better than most, not due to talent but simply been to a couple schools and had some course training.

The blessing was I actually got stuck on sticks instead of whizzing thru, I could always hire on where there was critical highly inspected work and jump trades if need be. You just cant fake it, you can work around it like a lot of diy with the wire feed hooked to a welder generator due to the fact they really cant stick weld critical field level **** man.

Weld a patch on a pipe in a hole on your head etc. Welding at arms length is really hard, seal weld a crack inside a stove, some of it is really hard. Some of it really throws otherwise pretty fair welders when conditions are good. I can remember a couple messes I made early on mostly cause I never got started off right.

 

[fnieto]

When I started up in 1987, I purchased a Millermatic 200. Fast forward, I now run six different machines, all Millers with the exception of a Lincoln 110 volt unit.
A quality mig welder will pave the way for future upgrades if your skilled and in demand. Nothing comes over night.
best of luck.

 

[sberry]

I had a college instructor was real past his prime as a welder and then I am not sure it was much a real passion. But he knew work and knew who belonged where, a couple others whizzed by me and there was a day or 2 he had an AC buzzer rigged up on a bench and some 6013 and wanted a vert or 2, I guess he figured out a farmer should not get 2 used to having every machine be DC and I had a buzzer at home, he probably did too.

 

[Johnydoe]

yeah you guys are making alot of sense. in the difference between what i want, and what i need...and can afford for that matter...

anyways i found a used lincoln migpak 180 for sale at 700$, i sent the guy an offer for 500$...then i seen its on sale at canadian tire for 599$

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/lincoln-electric-mig-pak-180-wire-feed-welder-0588041p.html

so which would you get, the one used that the guy "says" he only used it once, or the new unit for 100$ more plus taxes? the guy with the used unit sas there is still a 1 year garantee on the product

 

[sberry]

I bought an SA 200 a while back unseen because I can set on it and it was convenient and hard to pass up. If a guy understood what he was getting it was a deal, didn't buy to work it, big difference, didn't buy with missed money, I have it ******* but in a year at some point could liquidate it for 2 x although I have kept the thing mostly due to time constraints and wanting to make a buck for a change.

 

[sberry]

All this is speculative anyway.

 

[sberry]

I tested sales people to see if the staff knew how to get the3 customer the right thing. This is different than a knowledge of welding but is do they leave with the right thing for them. The clerk knew you needed the DC and it was better for the hydrogen rods who also stocked way too much 6013 but, he upsold to the DC and upsold to the 230V mig if they were willing.

I shopped air gas which differ, its mostly warehouse help, very strict on staff and a good salesman manager who knows how to read em and comes right up front not knowing a thing about welding. They didn't have a 215 in the lineup so I quiz him and he did a good job of upselling the 250 which was what I was fishing for.

He says,, I don't know anything but sales experience and coaching says you are the poster child for a 250 which he isolated in about 2 minor questions. He has his desk to feed from a couple counter guys who double as stock rotators so he doesn't have to leave. They got a salesman if you got real money but they handle the walk in sales pretty good.

The display in the box stores/farm store needs to be modular, they are all over and confusing and miss the real jems. Each store seems to be left up to the staff and lacks real tracking and missing models as well as a couple of consumables and poor stock levels.

 

[sberry]

Another forum freebie for a sprout is buy a Walmart grinder right off the bat. Do this before buying the best so you can see how much difference there is as you upgrade. You can get the same model at Menards on occasion for 20. This is not the bottom HF model, someone does sell a 10$ grinder but its junk.

I woulda saved myself a loto money had I spotted those earlier. I saved hex nuts from old BD and DeWalts and even the factory wrench isn't a deal if its in a shop. Got 1 I really use on the benches, at one point in a day burned a couple wheels in a row but collectively lots of duty cycles for years, the cords outlast others by a long shot. Vast improvement to real rubber.

Used one every day for 5 yrs, finally took out a switch and for giggles my man fixed it in about 10 minutes and we used it another year till it failed when I was busy and replaced with a new one been going on several years.

The last grinding wheels were 2$ DeWalt off the shelf as a convenience. Most of the cheap wheels are fine but for one slight flea mkt brand, they are not bad at a dollar but wear fast for real grinds. Cleaning a little paint or rust they are ok.
All that is made in China anyway, a while back scored 10 for 10 in a blister pack at a box store and they were really good, only slightly sub par on brutal work, mostly didn't matter.

 

[sberry]

Its just cause I can but air sand vs electric so don't use flap wheels but if that want the case would put on another unit with those but personally I use a grinder, can work localized and square cuts

 

[sberry]

Trust us this is a good move, harder to shot yourself in the foor with 500$ and you can get new in box for 700. These got a great arc, the downside is they are slow and wire costs more. The upside is they arc beautiful and are simple as it gets, easy to trade.

If you are in the game a good place to invest early money in the used market is some bottles and possibly torch stuff. I even pay a little and score a set a while back. Nothing as comforting as a torch set full of stuff. Get them when the opportunity presents itself, 140 and S bottles, a Q is nice for portable.

The 700$ welder gets you going and some guys have great luck on DC buzzers, not in my area but for occasionally and don't feel like shopping that diligent but early on don't pass up a lead deal if it comes with a machine. I bought and sold a deal for some I was missing.

 

[T_Roze]

I have been eyeing up the new Tweco machines. In an answer to a comment above, there is an available foot pedal for tig. The 211 looks like a very capable machine. And you are right. For $2000 your all in with all the accessories you need. Guys here sometimes try to sell a tux when all your in for is a dress shirt. I like the Tweco line from what I have researched, and have them on the top of my list for mig welders that I am looking at. Guys can post all day long about how they got a great deal online and that you should just wait till tomorrow and a fantastic deal will just be waiting for you. Doesn't always work like that. Where I am (Alberta), you gotta buy new. Or your buying something long past it's expiry date.

 

[mechanicalmoron]

I'm going to say what others already did - are you really really really really sure your welder is no good? Or that it can't be repaired?

I can make half decent DC welds. I've never been able to get AC to even strike without sticking. (though, I don't have my own machine, and when I do get to weld, I just do what I know I can, instead of waisting my limited time with a machine)