Welder Choices

[Terry D]

I'm about to make a major purchase on a nice welder. I'm looking for any advice or suggestions. I'm wanting to really learn more about it, something that I have always wanted to do. This would be for a home shop. So light to medium fabrication. I am a electrician by trade and occasionally have taken my existing welder on the job when needed. So I'm defiantly thinking a multi voltage machine. I currently have a Lincoln weld pak 100, which I purchased about 25 years ago. It is capable to convert it to mig, Something that I have never done with it, been running flux core. So I have honestly never mig welded. For a couple hundred bucks, I could convert it. But it is very limited on metal thickness. I also just want a machine with the new inverter technology. I will probably go with blue or red, but still looking for suggestions on other brands. I'm thinking of a machine that I can grow into. I'm in my late 50's and this will probably be my welder for awhile. I'm also debating on a multi process machine. Are these worth the extra money. Im sure the mig function is great on them all, but is the tig function worth it. I understand that you will not get as many parameters compared to a stand alone tig machine, but this is just for a home shop. I have noticed the more expensive machines will do both AC and DC tig. I understand that the AC is for tig welding aluminum. Something I may need to do at sometime.

So here is where I'm at so far on choices. I remember when the Lincoln MP210 came out, I thought about getting that. They are about $ 2000 now, and another $ 800 for the tig kit. And its just DC tig. I believe there is a $ 400 rebate on that machine. Lincoln has come out with a couple of new machines, one being the 211. Its just straight mig, but at $ 1300 its tempting. But I think that I would like the tig capability. The other one is the Lincoln mp215, with the tig package its $ 3000, but still just DC tig. I haven't found hardly any reviews on these machines, I guess being so new. So here is one that has caught my eye, but it comes with a hefty price tag. the Miller Multimatic 220. It does both AC/DC and pulsed tig. But its also $ 4200 with a $ 250 rebate. And depending on where you buy it, some offer a free $ 250 dollar helmet with the purchase. So not worrying about the helmet, its about a $ 1000 more for the A/C tig. And it comes with the tig kit. I think once you get in the 200 amp machines, the mig part of them are all about the same. These all have about the same duty cycle. I also did notice about the Miller is that it has two gas inputs. The machine switches the gases from mig to tig internally. You don't have to switch anything outside. Not sure if the Lincolns offer this.

Anyway, any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

 

[Monza Harry]

I in the last year(ish) bought the Lincoln MP210 I had seriously considered the TIG kit and selling my Square Wave 175 and my Mac Racing 130 MIG, but the lack of High Frequency and A/C changed my thoughts so I passed on the multi-process add-ons not worth the really premium pricing for lesser performance. The pedal here was around $800+ the required socket was ~$80-100 then the torch-hose, I could buy a number of stand alone TIG machines for that or less. Oh and my SW175 is worth about $500 on the used market maybe so I still have all three welders, the 210 is more powerful which was my goal but saving space [or money] didn't quite work out as planned. As you've discovered an all in one machine comes with some comprises. Tough decisions lie ahead, buy quality with parts and service in mind [red, blue, yellow +/- as youare already leaning]. Harry

 

[cvairwerks]

I'm in the camp of single process machines. I started with a Miller EconoTig when they first came out. It's good for what it is, but as the years have passed, things have become more complicated in the units and if it quits, you're out of luck til it's fixed. Base your purchase on needs and growth, coupled with available space and power. The select a machine with service, support and consumables in mind. Miller, Lincoln and Esab are three of the better brands here in the states. I'm fortunate that I don't have to rely on my welding equipment for a pay check, so if it takes a few days to get supplies in, not a big deal to me. If it were my livelihood, then local support would be about #1 on the list of things that would matter to me.

 

[GaryM909]

I bought a Miller Multimatic 220 a couple years ago just before the big price jump. I bought it so I could tig aluminum. Now that I am retired I use it for home projects in my garage. But as cvairwerks mentioned if it needs service you have no machine. I also kept a Maxstar 150 with the tig package for backup because I don't plan on taking on big projects

 

[mllester]

i went thru the same process 24 months ago. I went with a MP210 for MIG & TIG. But it felt like the TIG functionality was an afterthought on the 210 and I really wanted AC/DC capability so I also picked up a Squarewave 200.

The prices have gone way up on both of those since I bought mine. It’s crazy.

The MP215 look like it is a much better designed multi-process machine - out of the box. All connections are accessible on the front, 2 gas solenoids, better user interface. But still no AC TIG.

 

[MongoTA]

What got me into welding was my son needed a somewhat large (roughly 4' x 4' x 8') insulated tank to sterilize/pasteurize substrate for his mushroom business. The design lead to the interior being built out of thin aluminum sheet, which led to AC TIG.

Not the easiest path to learn to weld, starting with TIG welding thin gauge aluminum! But I dove in, and I got it done. Since it was my first foray into welding and I wasn't sure how much metal work I would do afterwards, I did a fair amount of research and ended up with an AHP Alpha-TIG 200x. Yup, I bought off-brand. Cost around $650 when I bought it.

I had initially settled on Everlast, and when I went to their showroom they were just introducing the AHP 'brand'. Everlast and AHP were essentially made in the same factory but because AHP was just being introduced AHP had some better components and a couple additional features. So I bought AHP.

Regardless, I've had the AHP welder for quite a few years, I'd guess eight years? It does AC/DC TIG and stick welding, I've used it for TIG welding aluminum and copper, and stick welding. The welder has been a champ. Zero issues. Never a hiccup. The only thing I can complain about was the foot pedal that shipped with it, it wasn't terribly smooth, especially at low amp settings. I replaced that foot pedal with a much nicer one from SSC.

Once I got further into metal work, I bought what you were looking at, the Lincoln 210MP. I've had that for maybe 4 or 5 years, and I use that for MIG and occasionally stick, but mostly MIG.

I really like both welders. No issues with either.

 

[Aaron_W]

Is space a concern?

To me the major plus to a multi-process machine is you get 2 machines in the foot print of one. I have a small shop so my space is very limited. When I went shopping I went with a Miller 220 Multi-process, at that time they were only $2900.

It is a great machine, no complaints, but if space were not so important to me I probably would have gone with stand along MIG and TIG machines. Mostly just because you have more options on the TIG side of things with a stand alone machine. It also allows for less bulky carts. I have 2 tanks and accessories for MIG, TIG and stick all on one cart that goes where ever I'm welding whether I need all that or not.

Things have also changed over the last couple of years. I probably would give a lot more consideration to some of the "Chinese" brands if shopping today, because their quality seems to have really come up and the prices on Miller, Lincoln, ESAB have also gone up significantly 25-40% in 3-4 years.

 

[G-ManBart]

I'll start out by saying that I've owned a lot of welders for a hobbyist....over 50 at this point.

I don't like the multi-process machines until you get into the really expensive models that are probably too expensive for most hobby welders. Buying a TIG that's DC-only, or lift/scratch start only doesn't make any sense to me at all, and that rules out a lot of multi-process machines, some of which are expensive.

Given your requirements I would buy a Miller Millermatic 211 as your MIG (dual-voltage, portable, plenty of power). For TIG I'd buy a Primeweld 225X which is an AC/DC machine, 210A and more functions/bells and whistles than you'll know what to do with for quite some time. Both are very capable machines and you'll be able to do pretty much anything most hobby welders (like me) tackle.

That would put you right around $3K with everything.

Primeweld is an American company which has it's machines made overseas, but you can pick up the phone and get one of their people here in the U.S. on the phone in a couple of minutes. I know several people who have them now and they're all thrilled. I have yet to see a bad word posted anywhere about the machines, the company, or the people at Primeweld.

 

[G-ManBart]

One alibis comment....stay away from Everlast and AHP welders. They are owned by the same person and have absolutely terrible customer support and service. I say that as someone who owns an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT. It welds nicely, but it took over 50 e-mails and phone calls to wind up with this machine after my first Everlast developed issues within the first two weeks. I've actually sold two welders to guys who were replacing Everlast machines that had failed repeatedly and they were sick of fighting with the company.

 

[corn chip]

if a good qaulity non chinese built machine ( that wont break the bank ) interests you then htp should be on your list ,even more so than miller imo. you get alot but arent paying so much for a name. heres some videos on the construction of their wire machine and ac/dc tig/stick. ive had their ac/dc tig since 2014 and im positive theres no better built machine at that price. even some higher priced machines may not be built as good

 

[03ranger]

Had Lincoln Tombstone AC welder for years. Three years ago purchased a Lincoln MP210, no regrets. I go through about four 155 cu ft bottles of C25 a year and this is a hobby. If I was looking today for multi process machine I’d consider another Lincoln 210 or a Fronious multi machine. Whatever you buy make sure your Local Welding Supplier (LWS) can provide parts and service.

 

[f150skidoo]

If I was in the market for a true multi process welder I would also be looking into the ESAB Rebel 205 AC/DC. I previously owned the Lincoln 210 MP and was a very good welder for the 2 years that I owned it

 

[gearhead1]

I’d consider a Hobart.

I also started with a Lincoln a Weldpak, then upgraded to a Miller 180, and now have a Hobart Ironman 240. The 240 has a lot of amps which I got it for modifying aluminum intakes.

If you want a US based company consider a Hobart 190 or 210MVP. (Miller bought Hobart by the way.)

If you want a little cheaper consider a PrimeWeld. I wanted an AC TIG for aluminum and for many reasons decided on the PrimeWeld ACand it’s been fine. Made overseas, but it is not chintzy. This is my TIG:

https://primeweld.com/products/tig-225x-ac-dc-tig-welder

I would not hesitate to get their MIG if I was in the market for a MIG that size. The 180 includes a spool gun for aluminum.

MIG180 180-Amp MIG Welder With Spool Gun

The MIG180 mig welder includes upgraded Tweco 100 Style torch and American style connection. Order online today from PrimeWeld to get free shipping.

primeweld.com

MTS200 200 Amp 3-in-1 Welder

The PrimeWeld MTS200 200 Amp TIG, MIG, and Stick 3-in-1 Welder performs DC MIG, Flux Core/TIG, and Stick welding for the perfect weld, every time.

primeweld.com

If you lived closer, I’d say stop by and try either one. I have nothing bad to say about either.

 

[G-ManBart]

(Miller bought Hobart by the way.)

Not really. Illinois Tool Works bought Miller in 1993 and Hobart in 1995. ITW is the parent company for both, but it appears almost all of the products are actually based on Miller parts and facilities. I'm definitely not an expert on that, but know many of the part numbers are the same and if you order a Hobart part it's going to come to you from the same facility that ships Miller parts.

 

[Dig Doug]

I bought a Hobart 240 Ironman lightly used and feel I got a great buy $1050, the original owner bought it at Tractor supply and gave me the original receipt

I haven’t used it yet, but looking forward to i.

I also have a Hobart Handler 110 ( can’t remember the model # ) I bought it 20 years ago ! Still works like a champ!


I like that both of my welders match each other…

 

[Terra Nova]

I’d consider a Hobart.

I also started with a Lincoln a Weldpak, then upgraded to a Miller 180, and now have a Hobart Ironman 240. The 240 has a lot of amps which I got it for modifying aluminum intakes.

If you want a US based company consider a Hobart 190 or 210MVP. (Miller bought Hobart by the way.)

If you want a little cheaper consider a PrimeWeld. I wanted an AC TIG for aluminum and for many reasons decided on the PrimeWeld ACand it’s been fine. Made overseas, but it is not chintzy. This is my TIG:

https://primeweld.com/products/tig-225x-ac-dc-tig-welder

I would not hesitate to get their MIG if I was in the market for a MIG that size. The 180 includes a spool gun for aluminum.

MIG180 180-Amp MIG Welder With Spool Gun

The MIG180 mig welder includes upgraded Tweco 100 Style torch and American style connection. Order online today from PrimeWeld to get free shipping.

primeweld.com

MTS200 200 Amp 3-in-1 Welder

The PrimeWeld MTS200 200 Amp TIG, MIG, and Stick 3-in-1 Welder performs DC MIG, Flux Core/TIG, and Stick welding for the perfect weld, every time.

primeweld.com

If you lived closer, I’d say stop by and try either one. I have nothing bad to say about either.

How do you like the Ironman 240? Do you find the "run-in" feature to be a problem? Seems to be a fairly unpopular option on them. I have a Handler 187 that is a fantastic little machine but am considering something with more amps for thicker material.

Regarding the Primeweld 225X, I'm hoping to pick one up this month if they have some deals, seems like solid reviews all around, only complaint is the low-end on AC isn't super low. Not really a deal breaker I don't think.

 

[gearhead1]

I have not had an issue with the run in feature. I’ve done a lot of welding but I’m not a pro by any means so I’m probably not at a high enough skill level to know the difference. The auto set feature on my Miller 180 was nice and was accurate, but I would remove it from auto set when doing thin work like car body stuff so I could control it.

The low end on the PrimeWeld hasn’t been an issue, at least not for me, since aluminum needs so many amps anyway.

 

[banjopete]

As a hobby machine for the most part by the sounds of it, I'd be very tempted to by the alpha, everlasts, and so on if I were you and were set on new only. There's such a huge price difference between the blue/red and all the DTC brands, that it's hard to justify the premiums for home use in my opinion.

If you can get all the same function and maybe even more features from a unit that's 30-40% of the blue/red price I'd think pretty hard about it. You could buy two or three units as others have pointed out and still be saving money. Buying them new, you get a warranty and support that should deal with any teething issues. I'd probably not buy one of these used given how low their start prices are. There are plenty of good machines, that have proven their abilities, they're far from unknown startups at this point.

I totally understand the blue/red local parts, service, support part for commercial work, and people that get paid with their welders. They're also business expenses, and long term consumables to some extent that will get replaced long after they've paid for themselves many times over.

If you're not opposed either, used can be a great way to get lightly used, to nearly brand new units out of other ambitious hobbyist's garages. Me personally, I'm using two units, both blue, a dc hf tig, and a mig unit. Both purchased used at steep discounts to new, and they've both given me years of problem free hobby use.

Good luck with the choices.

 

[boom_bap]

You can always MIG spool gun AL if you don't want an AC/DC machine for TIG welding. That would save you a bit of $, but tig is fun and worth it.

 

[mark-NJ]

I know there's no love for green welders here....and I agree with the video above that shows the lack of conformal coatings on the PC boards, but as an experienced welder with "just hobby" needs, all of my green welders have been awesome.

Yes, the processes involved in metal work (cutting, grinding, flap-wheeling, etc.) are messy...so I made a cover for my machine (well, my wife made it...she's the seamstress) that completely covers the machine. When I'm grinding, the machine is covered & rolled away. When I'm welding, I'm not grinding. My PC boards are clean.

I get the "buy once cry once" concept, but the features on my current green machine would cost about $4K on a blue machine, and I just can't justify such.

I've needed to contact Everlast a few times (admittedly NOT for warranty claims), and I've found them to be available, attentive & knowledgeable. Maybe I'm just an outlier, but I've been very happy with the green machines...no troubles, no issues. Works great!

 

[G-ManBart]

Regarding the Primeweld 225X, I'm hoping to pick one up this month if they have some deals, seems like solid reviews all around, only complaint is the low-end on AC isn't super low. Not really a deal breaker I don't think.

Yeah, if you aren't trying to weld razor blades it probably won't be an issue

I've needed to contact Everlast a few times (admittedly NOT for warranty claims), and I've found them to be available, attentive & knowledgeable. Maybe I'm just an outlier, but I've been very happy with the green machines...no troubles, no issues. Works great!

Yes, they tend to be pretty friendly and helpful until it's going to cost them money. I had to get Oleg, the owner, on the phone multiple times to get my issue resolved and the welder was only a couple of weeks old. I will credit him for actually giving me his cell number, but it was still a ridiculous process.

 

[mark-NJ]

Hopefully, if I take good care of it, it won't come to that.

BTW....I really dig your website!

 

[scooby074]

I have 3 millers. At work 95% of what I used was Miller. I like their products.

That said, to replace my Miller 252 now either with a 252 (if you can find it) or its replacement 255 would be $6700 +Tax. I paid 1/3 that when I bought it new.

I hope I never have to replace it, I dont know what I would pick. It would be hard to come up with $7000 for a welder these days.

 

[G-ManBart]

I have 3 millers. At work 95% of what I used was Miller. I like their products.

That said, to replace my Miller 252 now either with a 252 (if you can find it) or its replacement 255 would be $6700 +Tax. I paid 1/3 that when I bought it new.

I hope I never have to replace it, I dont know what I would pick. It would be hard to come up with $7000 for a welder these days.

Ouch! They're hitting you for a full $1,000 more in Canada!

 

[scooby074]

Ouch! They're hitting you for a full $1,000 more in Canada!

Yeah. It *****.

You probably could get a lot off that posted price above with some negotiation and shopping around. A company out west has them listed for $5500 https://www.kmstools.com/miller-millermatic-252-mig-welder.html

Or the 255 for $5600 https://www.kmstools.com/millermatic-255-mig-welder-with-cart.html Plus a few hundred in freight.

Still a hell of a lot of money now. As I mentioned when I got mine I paid less than 1/2 that. Inflation is nuts.

 

[drmarkr]

My Primeweld 225 arrived today. I'm working on cars at the track, but my 17 y/o unboxed it and played a bit. He's used a TIG less than 10 times or so, just for fun. Pics below. It is replacing an older Syncowave 180.

I asked how it felt compared to the Miller... his answer is below. (Maybe not "perfect", but pretty damn good for his limited experience)

 

[gearhead1]

I’ve not been disappointed with my PrimeWeld TIG either. It may have been made overseas but it is not junk.

 

[steel 35]

Hobart 210 ;
With spool runner.
Use your Giggle under 13 hun.

Nice Machine and its little,

 

[jhelrey]

I have the Miller 220 MM. Only con so far is the price.

 

[Woods_Wanderer]

I have the Hobart 210 and think it would be a perfect mig for your purposes. It's dual voltage and portable-ish (although heavy), can be cranked up hot enough for aluminum, and is a lot cheaper than a roll-around unit while still having a good duty cycle. Its also made by Miller so you don't have to worry about poor quality or warranty issues.

 

[corn chip]

the welder machine rabbit hole is a bottomless pit. no matter the machine ,youll always find something a bit better with a bit more power for a bit more money. what are you able and willing to spend. will it be used three times a week or four times a year. do you expect it to still be working in fifteen years or youll be happy if it hasnt died in three years. some where everybody has to draw their own line

 

[GeoBruin]

Just another option: Lincoln power Mig 211i ($1,300) + Lincoln Square Wave Tig 200 ($2,000 after rebate) = $3,300 for two machines which, between them, offer Mig and AC/DC tig.

I bough the 210mp thinking I would do the tig conversion but then found a good deal on a "like new" square wave tig so now I use the 210 as a dedicated Mig machine.

 

[BD1]

I prefer a dedicated mig machine. You'll get more amps and duty cycle for your money.
What happens when one process goes dead ? Are they all unusable ?
As for tig, get a used AC/DC stick welder and set it up for tig. We still use stick machines on jobsite and use for tig.

 

[Will S.]

I've had a PrimeWeld 225 for a year or two, and I'll tell you it is a very nice machine, and with well thought out features. I don't think anything can come even close, for anywhere near the price. Great (actual owner) reviews, excellent customer service and if you need service (I have not), they are serviced in N.J.

BTW, I have been running a Miller (Mig) for the last 8 or so years, also with no issues. But the PrimeWeld not only has AC TIG, but DC stick.

 

[86turbodsl]

I say this as an unabashed Miller wh*re. So take it with a grain of salt. No other company i am aware of has support as good as Miller. No other company has as high a quality as Miller in my opinion. I currently own 6 welders. I've owned lots more. There are a few good offshore welders here and there. What you should target really depends on what your needs are. I need mine to work when i need them to. I am not taking chances on anything else. So i own Miller. As far as multiprocess, you can do a lot with an inverter based welder. And eventually it will die when a board takes a dump. They all do. Tough environment it lives in. I like the ones i can just hose out.

 

[Bill T]

One more miller wh*re (as preceding post referred). I sold my Lincoln Square wave, and Lincoln SP-100 mig. Now I have a Miller Syncrowave 200, and a Miller 211 (dualvoltage is nice). When I purchased my 211, there was a deal to include a Spoolmate 100 spool gun. Money well spent. Spool gun is very handy in welding aluminum when the weld does not have to be perfect. The only bad comment I have for Miller was touched on in a previous post. I had a Miller Specrtum 700 plasma cutter (very heavy duty plasma arc). I loved it, could cut 3/4" CS, but the main board went bad. No parts were available. I gave up trying to find a replacement on the used market . Now I use a smaller plasma. I have the Miller 375 extreme. While it does not have the capability of the old machine, or the duty cycle, it is very handy on small jobs. My old plasma cutter was several hundred pounds. The 375 Extreme is a little larger than a loaf of bread.

 

[bozlymon]

HTP pro pulse 220 mts

regularly goes on sale ( around big holidays)
change guns and can weld aluminum w/o a spool Gun. Can do spray pulse. Single/double pulse

can also run stick/SMAW

and dc scratch (or maybe lift?) start TIG

Made in Italy

 

[Beelzeboss]

I bought a 2nd hand Miller Syncrowave 250DX, thinking a used Industrial machine would last with my hobby use, and within about 6 hours of use it shat the main board. Apparently it's a very well known problem and Miller will sell you an updated main board which will fix the known issue... for $2k USD.

I guess I'll be selling it for scrap and avoiding Miller like the plague from now on.

 

[Terry D]

Thank you everyone for all the great advice. I'm still going back and forth, but most likely will go with single process machines. It seems like you get a little bang for your buck on the Tig end. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks again

 

[cannuck]

Thank you everyone for all the great advice. I'm still going back and forth, but most likely will go with single process machines. It seems like you get a little bang for your buck on the Tig end. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks again

Another 211 user. I bought a little Lincoln to do a job that required carrying the welder up ladders and trying to Mig 3/16SS stops onto 1" plate. Tried once and immediately sold it to a friend for bodywork (he is happy) and bought a 211. WOW, what a great little machine!! Also on the DC Tig side: stick with dedicated, see if you can find a used one (it will be large and heavy - but easily re-sold) to get started. You may never need to buy a fancy rectifier one unless you start doing a fair bit of that work. My AC/DC Miller TIG is 40 years old now, never been any problems but will some day replace with something higher amp and water cooled torch.