Welder circuit question...

[ZRX61]

At my old place I had dedicated 220V/50A circuits for both my MM210 & Syncrowave 200.

Assuming I don't attempt to weld up anything resembling a battleship, could they be run on a 220V/30A drier circuit? It's only going be thin sheet metal at this place so won't be cranking the amps up.

 

[bsaint]

Oh yea the worst that could happen is you trip a breaker. I used to weld off a 30a breaker all the time 1/4" stuff all the time.

 

[sberry]

I believe the old synch is a ****** and a greedy sucker, it called for 60A, the MM210 will run from 30 with 030 wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Welder circuits are a different beast.

First off what kind of dryer outlet/circuit do u have- 3-wire or 4-wire? And does it connect to your main panel or a subpanel? If main panel, then neutral and ground are landed on the same buss and this is of no consequence. this all matters because U need 2 hots and a ground. 3-wire dryer circuits have 2 hots and a neutral.

Second of all, the syncrowave 200 is a beast and has a 54a input. Right up front this means that u need a 60a breaker. Welder circuits are wired based on duty cycle. The Syncro's duty cycle is 40%, so based on t630.11(a) the wire needs to be 34a rated.

All of this means your 30a dryer circuit wont work for the syncro.

On the other hand, the MM210 has upto 60% duty cycle but only 27.1a input. So the dryer circuit may work and depends on what i said earlier about how the circuit may be wired...

NEC T630.11(a)
http://m.ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-45

Syncrowave manual:

https://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AD4-4.pdf

MM210 manual:

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1325j_mil.pdf

 

[ZRX61]

Outstanding reply. I'm more likely to use the MM210 than the Syncro200. I'm guessing the circuits at the old place must have been 60A because I could crank up the welders & not have any issues.
Drier outlet is 3 wire & connected to the main panel. I actually have the manuals for both MIG & TIG & like a typical A&P mech didn't think to actually consult either of them. (there will now most likely follow a rant from other A&P guys )

Welder circuits are a different beast.

First off what kind of dryer outlet/circuit do u have- 3-wire or 4-wire? And does it connect to your main panel or a subpanel? If main panel, then neutral and ground are landed on the same buss and this is of no consequence. this all matters because U need 2 hots and a ground. 3-wire dryer circuits have 2 hots and a neutral.

Second of all, the syncrowave 200 is a beast and has a 54a input. Right up front this means that u need a 60a breaker. Welder circuits are wired based on duty cycle. The Syncro's duty cycle is 40%, so based on t630.11(a) the wire needs to be 34a rated.

All of this means your 30a dryer circuit wont work for the syncro.

On the other hand, the MM210 has upto 60% duty cycle but only 27.1a input. So the dryer circuit may work and depends on what i said earlier about how the circuit may be wired...

NEC T630.11(a)
http://m.ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-45

Syncrowave manual:

https://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AD4-4.pdf

MM210 manual:

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1325j_mil.pdf

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah they were probably 50a outlet on a 60a breaker.

So, u could either cut the 6-50p off the MM210(i dont recommend doing this) or make an adapter that goes 10-50p to a 6-50r. That way u dont have to change anything on the welder.

 

[sberry]

The 200 usually gets ran from common 50A, unless it is wide screaming open for extended periods its not a problem, I have never heard of a trip on one.

Since you are a mechanic this is the perfect time to skip fooling with adapters and undersized circuits, get a number 8, run a wire and be done. There is really no good way around this.

 

[bsaint]

Welder circuits are a different beast.

First off what kind of dryer outlet/circuit do u have- 3-wire or 4-wire? And does it connect to your main panel or a subpanel? If main panel, then neutral and ground are landed on the same buss and this is of no consequence. this all matters because U need 2 hots and a ground. 3-wire dryer circuits have 2 hots and a neutral.

Second of all, the syncrowave 200 is a beast and has a 54a input. Right up front this means that u need a 60a breaker. Welder circuits are wired based on duty cycle. The Syncro's duty cycle is 40%, so based on t630.11(a) the wire needs to be 34a rated.

All of this means your 30a dryer circuit wont work for the syncro.

On the other hand, the MM210 has upto 60% duty cycle but only 27.1a input. So the dryer circuit may work and depends on what i said earlier about how the circuit may be wired...

NEC T630.11(a)
http://m.ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-45

Syncrowave manual:

https://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AD4-4.pdf

MM210 manual:

http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1325j_mil.pdf

Ya but he says he's not using full power. Tig welding is constant current so unlike mig, his current draw wont be erratic. The MM210 is more likely to draw excessive current being its a CV power supply

 

[MoonRise]

First off, RTFM.

As mentioned (by wyliesdiesels and sberry), the MM210 will run fine on a 30 amp breaker (at 230-240V input voltage).

The Syncrowave200 is a 200+ pound beast with a rather big transformer. First turning that big transformer on will pull a big amp surge as the transformer 'magnetizes'. RTFM again and (as mentioned) the specs call for a 60 amp breaker/fuse if it's a time-delay unit or an 80 amp 'normal' breaker/fuse (indicating to me that there is a rather big amp surge on start-up).

https://www.millerwelds.com/om/o225389x_mil.pdf

Yes, if you were TIG welding some low amp stuff the Syncro might 'run' on a 30 amp input, but when you first turn the machine on you might end up tripping that 30 amp breaker. Which means you never get to the 'run' part of things because the breaker trips at the 'start up'.

And never mind if he tries to run some SMAW (higher arc voltage, so that means more 'power', both input and output).

Sum up, MM210 is OK on a 30 amp breaker, the Synrowave200 is not.

And if I were trying to connect the MM210 to a 30 amp dryer circuit (and needed to leave the dryer circuit as-is for, you know, the dryer), I'd leave the usual NEMA6-50P plug on the welder alone and rig up an 'adapter' or extension with a NEMA6-50R on one end (for the welder to plug into) and whatever config plug goes into the dryer outlet.