Welder for beginner

[ItsNemo]

As long as it is sized properly you could be OK. I didn't want you to use a standard orange 16 gauge extension cord. Buy one dedicated, get the largest wire size you can find, and don't go over 50' tops. Just looking out.

What do you think the wire in your wall is on a 120v plug? 14 gauge...and could be run for 100+ feet and at the end of a dozen outlets/connections.

There's nothing wrong with using an extension cord for a welder if properly sized, it's not just "OK", it's absolutely fine.

 

[ZRX61]

You are in California, community colleges here are a bargain compared to most states. We have one of the lowest community colleges tuition rates in the nation.

National average for in state tuition at a public community college is $4808 for one year (2 semesters).

California average is $1636.

Illinois average is $7978.

So that Rankin school looks like that is just what a Community College costs in that part of the country.


Another one of those areas where California is not the most expensive.

https://www.communitycollegereview.com/avg-tuition-stats/national-data


I know my local community college is only $46 per credit, my stick / OAW welding class was 3 units, so $138 + materials fee which I think was $20.

Yup, $46 here too. I think that's a State issue... Although when I was a (mature) student I think it was around half that.
I'm thinking that Cee Kay option would be the one I'd go for. Can't beat free.



I'd had a bike wreck, was all fuckered up for a while & couldn't work so I hit the college & racked up about 130 vocational credits at the community college. Did autobody, auto paint, welding, aircraft fabrication (metal & composites) & drafting.
Blasted through all the courses as it was all stuff I'd been doing for decades, but didn't have any wallpaper. 4.0 GPA & Presidents List most of the time. Even ended up with a couple of extra pieces of wallpaper I didn't even go after.

 

[PugetDude]

I replaced my Lincoln 110V FCAW welder with a Miller 211 a couple of years ago, and stepped up to MIG.
My welding improved overnight. A lot cleaner, and running it on 220V made a big difference in weld penetration.
A bit expensive, but probably the best tool investment I've ever made.
I bought it from Cyberweld, but they were completely worthless on a warranty issue. My LWS stepped up and took care of it, wish I'd bought from them in the first place.

 

[katit]

Cee Kay is $300 for full day. Free when you buy from them. They don’t publish prices but I’m sure they will make it back somehow or there is minimum purchase or something.

But regardless it works for me since I rather do couple full days vs semester

 

[sberry]

The small feeders work with 50 ft of 12,, about 4 volts or so drop. If 14 is used it effects the settings

 

[gearhead1]

If I was going to get one, I’d strongly consider a Hobart 140 to 200 amp MIG machine (not flux core) on sale. You’re getting a good quality welder for less money. Since Miller bought Hobart, I’d guess you might be getting a Miller for less money, or a ‘lower end’ Miller. If you get to the point you’re going to weld thick stuff or rusty stuff then get a used arc welder, DC if you can spend the money.

I’ve owned Miller, Lincoln, and cheap welders. I’ve used many at various positions I’ve been in. IMHO, Miller is the best. I have a Miller 180 MIG and a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC arc welder.

If you start with one, get a MIG. If you get to welding rusty or thick stuff, then add the arc welder.

 

[MoonRise]

+ 9 on checking into some course or lessons.

Either the lessons offered by the welding shop, or something like 'Intro to Welding ' or 'Welding for hobbyists ' or similar. Sometimes such a course might be through a community college or a vo-tech school or an adult education school.

You usually don't need the 'certified ' welding course (unless you want to). Those ones are more geared to the vo-tech students. And they are usually MUCH more expensive than the adult ed or 'hobby' welding course.

As to a welder, take the course first.

 

[ZRX61]

Cee Kay is $300 for full day. Free when you buy from them. They don’t publish prices but I’m sure they will make it back somehow or there is minimum purchase or something.

But regardless it works for me since I rather do couple full days vs semester

You'll be running MIG beads within 15 minutes. Had a friend who only used stick for years, then he finally decided to buy a small Miller, from the way he raved about it you'd think he had discovered the cure for cancer.


Pick up a piece of 6x6in 1/2in plate & just run beads. First run them parallel until it's covered, then go 90deg to that.. keep going until your 1/2in plate becomes a piece of 2in plate. (this also works for Stick)



TIG is easier to pick up if you can already run an O/A rig. My kid learned to move a puddle around some thin plate with a O/A torch, no rods, just move the puddle.




My daughter turning a thin plate into a thicker plate when she was 9 with my MM210:


https://scontent-lax3-1.**.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1486794_10201945457870834_862305975_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeH7L5QwZ107wS06fqcz-DsZ1ixX6cGw1p78lm2P6auELfiQ7y2PC1f-cxJOHR3ejY7ncvu96a-INod1gl0w-n_eg50Ov4JG_vKBHmwNT2zU7A&_nc_oc=AQk395BF7-k_-za4HC9ie0BCu2RAl6lhPpyQW5h5c4r4IxgUUqfuxiVBG1Mz2jqj0CkLuI7eNI5M1qWkYUi-3Nal&_nc_pt=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.**&oh=df3394e040c6ef302a7fd3d42021d5a1&oe=5DACF6C9

 

[gmwelder86]

I teach at my Pipefitters union hall. Mainly we teach stick to the apprentices and tig to those who are interested. Have not available but since it’s not something used in the field a lot for our type of work we don’t use it much. With mig once the machines set you can run a decent bead in about 20 min of practice it is very simple. Bug down side to mig is you can have a great looking weld that is not fused into the base metal one bit. Stick if the weld looks good you’ve got a pretty damn good chance it will never fail. Hell I’ve seen a lot of ****** looking welds pass inspection, just check anything an iron worker welded. Strong but ugly as sin. Tig is a great process and has its place, more investment to get into and slower to weld but the range of material you can work on is endless.

At the house I’ve got Vulcan 140 mig that is handy for small stuff and fixing odds and ends and an everlast stick/ tig combo. The tig in it is scratch start only which is a little tougher than the high frequency units We usually use. But it gets the job done. Don’t need a fancy high dollar machine to get your feet wet.

 

[BlackLS2]

Cyberweld rocks! 46138 helmet for about $121 - Jackson, by Kimberly Clark, cause you only get the one set of eyes.

HF Vulcan 140, HF Titanium 140/170..or.....drum roll please:

HF Titanium Unlimited 200 - inverter, multiprocess: Flux, MIG, TIG, Stick +, 120/240 volt, 25 pounds...comes with all the goodies...coupon fot $649. I expect it to be a hit like the Vulcan Omni 220 that started in the $600s and is now almost $1,000.

I was in the same boat as you, started with less welder.......outgrew it quickly. Get one you can grow with...welding is just plain fun, and you get bonus points on your man card or woman card. Its like having a pickup, once people know, you make new friends. Learning to weld is also just a really great experience.

Your local metals dealer / recycler usually has piles of decent scrap - for cheap - to learn with.

Check out Mike festiva on YouTube...he has game, but considers himself not a welder.

 

[MikeOkiro]

Thanks for your great post.

wanos . co

 

[Crazyjake8493]

HF Titanium Unlimited 200 - inverter, multiprocess: Flux, MIG, TIG, Stick +, 120/240 volt, 25 pounds...comes with all the goodies...coupon fot $649. I expect it to be a hit like the Vulcan Omni 220 that started in the $600s and is now almost $1,000.

That's a hell of a deal right there! If only it did AC TIG too it'd be an unbeatable buy.

 

[katit]

That's a hell of a deal right there! If only it did AC TIG too it'd be an unbeatable buy.

What is AC TIG used for?

For stick DC is preferred I assume?

I am seriously thinking about this welder now..

 

[katit]

Cyberweld rocks! 46138 helmet for about $121 - Jackson, by Kimberly Clark, cause you only get the one

HF Titanium Unlimited 200 - inverter, multiprocess: Flux, MIG, TIG, Stick +, 120/240 volt, 25 pounds...comes with all the goodies...coupon fot $649. I expect it to be a hit like the Vulcan Omni 220 that started in the $600s and is now almost $1,000.

I was in the same boat as you, started with less welder.......outgrew it quickly. Get one you can grow with...welding is just plain fun, and you get bonus points on your man card or woman card. Its like having a pickup, once people know, you make new friends. Learning to weld is also just a really great experience.

Your local metals dealer / recycler usually has piles of decent scrap - for cheap - to learn with.

Check out Mike festiva on YouTube...he has game, but considers himself not a welder.

What is good about that helmet? I really do need best protection possible for my eyes. I also wear glasses, will it work with helmet?

For the welder, what coupon you talking about, where to get it?

 

[Shadowdog500]

I agree to take a course if you can. I took an evening vocational course 30 years ago and thought it was worthwhile.

I don’t have any guidance on what welders to get, but I have been happy with my Lincoln AC/DC tombstone welder. I had an old craftsman high frequency arc stabilizer on it for limited TIG welding for years, but upgraded last year and bought a Vulcan pro TIG 200 and like it.(But I’d like any real TIG after welding with the HF arc stabilizer ).

Unfortunately you can’t get the VULCAN Pro TIG 200 anymore because Lincoln sued HF a few Months ago for patent infringement https://insight.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12725742

 

[mcbane]

What is AC TIG used for?
..

Aluminum. Not regular AC, but square wave with an adjustable ratio of time for the two polarities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lis2323]

Hobart 190... or a used 187.


There's got to be a community college with a welding program in your area.

The dad of my daughter’s best friend sold me a Hobart 187 years ago. It was a surprisingly nice little mig. Only thing I had to do was upgrade the work clamp. Adding a spool gun is expensive as you need to buy a contactor whereas the newer 190 is spoolgun plug and play.

It’s basically a Miller Matic with tapped settings instead of variable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lucky13driver]

I've had the Hobart 140. And currently have the 210 MVP. If you have 220v in the garage it will definitely be worth the being able to weld the thicker metal. Whatever you end up buying I recommend replacing the ground clamp. The manufacturer usually puts a lower quality ground clamp to save money. A good ground clamp is the best way to keep a smooth consistent arch.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I started welding a few years back, without classes, and without doing it in the "proper" order like most folks do. Stick is my personal favorite, tig is neat and the clear choice for certain applications (I'm not much good), but when I've got a job that really needs to get done so I can do something else, you can rest assured the mig is coming out. These new multi process units are pretty neat, but I haven't tried one. Guys online, even professionals, seem to be able to do good work with them.

 

[BlackLS2]

What is good about that helmet? I really do need best protection possible for my eyes. I also wear glasses, will it work with helmet?

For the welder, what coupon you talking about, where to get it?

Kinda silly to go cheap on a helmet IMHO. Any of the Jackson "Insight" helmets are great; its their common AD module for their helmets. Wide field of view, adjustable preset tint, 4 sensors, super fast, fully adjustable, BATTERY CHECK. They stay up, they work with glasses, they appear to have slots for optic lenses too. I bet you could even put a 3M P100 respirator filter under them. This model is red and cool looking. Cyberweld had a great price on it...way better than Amazon (Amazon is a great place to look). Cyberweld is great; they don't trash you with email ads.

I got a Raider motorcycle helmet bag for it (Amazon) and Caiman (Amazon) goatskin long cuff gloves. I wear a heavy standard welding glove on my left brace hand, but hold the torch with the Caiman for control...especially for small stuff.

HFQPDB has the $649 coupon...good thru November.

HF also has a great little cart for $29 with coupon, and a trick magnetic torch holder. I am a broad shoulder guy so have yet to find a suitable split cowhide welding jacket...the search continues.

Hope I helped. Have fun and be careful!

 

[sberry]

What do you think the wire in your wall is on a 120v plug? 14 gauge...and could be run for 100+ feet and at the end of a dozen outlets/connections.

There's nothing wrong with using an extension cord for a welder if properly sized, it's not just "OK", it's absolutely fine.

I was in a shop a while back where they were having problems. The main issue was a brain about the size of a pea but I had them get 50 ft of 12 and use an outlet near the panel. All the wire in the place was 14,, had bunch of lights on it plus they try to use a **** cord.

 

[American Locomotive]

In my personal opinion, you should stick to bigger established brands like Lincoln, Miller or ESAB. The Harbor Freight welders are good value, but they're manufactured by a random faceless supplier that HF can change at any time and then all of your support goes away. I can still get near every single part for a 25 year old Lincoln MIG machine - can't really say that about HF.

I personally really like the Lincoln PowerMig 210, and it occasionally goes on sale for $999. It's a dual voltage machine which is really handy.

 

[katit]

American Locomotive,

All consumables, leads and so on is not a problem with HF welders.
Problem is, I need it for hobby, not to make money. HF should last a while with this use.

I can buy 3 of them for the price of Miller. I don’t have to spend all upfront even if I have to buy replacements.

I hate buying HF stuff but sometimes it’s just doesn’t make sense to spend much more.

 

[zendriver]

All consumables, leads and so on is not a problem with HF welders.
Problem is, I need it for hobby, not to make money. HF should last a while with this use.

I can buy 3 of them for the price of Miller. I don’t have to spend all upfront even if I have to buy replacements.

I hate buying HF stuff but sometimes it’s just doesn’t make sense to spend much more.

You missed the usual formula

Spend 3X as much on the welder and you will be 3X the better welder = 3X happier in life.

Experience and/or training not really a factor.

You can pass by that nearly unused expensive welder, every time you walk in the shop and feel good, you invested for the long term.

 

[lis2323]

You missed the usual formula

Spend 3X as much on the welder and you will be 3X the better welder = 3X happier in life.

Experience and/or training not really a factor.

You can pass by that nearly unused expensive welder, every time you walk in the shop and feel good, you invested for the long term.

^^^THIS^^^ works for me!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Shadowdog500]

In my personal opinion, you should stick to bigger established brands like Lincoln, Miller or ESAB. The Harbor Freight welders are good value, but they're manufactured by a random faceless supplier that HF can change at any time and then all of your support goes away. I can still get near every single part for a 25 year old Lincoln MIG machine - can't really say that about HF.

I personally really like the Lincoln PowerMig 210, and it occasionally goes on sale for $999. It's a dual voltage machine which is really handy.

I normally agree with that 100%, but these newer low end homeowner grade name brand welders are made in China too. I planned on getting the Lincoln TIG 200, but a friend had one that broke just out of warranty and the only repair on those things is a $1200 board on a $1,600 welder. That tells me that the Lincoln homeowner grade welders are disposable homeowner grade tools.

Chris

 

[Shadowdog500]

You missed the usual formula

Spend 3X as much on the welder and you will be 3X the better welder = 3X happier in life.

Experience and/or training not really a factor.

You can pass by that nearly unused expensive welder, every time you walk in the shop and feel good, you invested for the long term.

+1,000!

I always chuckle when I see the guy with the 80 gallon two stage big name brand air compressor that is only used to air up his tires!

 

[American Locomotive]

American Locomotive,

All consumables, leads and so on is not a problem with HF welders.
Problem is, I need it for hobby, not to make money. HF should last a while with this use.

I can buy 3 of them for the price of Miller. I don’t have to spend all upfront even if I have to buy replacements.

I hate buying HF stuff but sometimes it’s just doesn’t make sense to spend much more.

A PowerMig 210 is $1400, and is often on sale for $999. When your HF's wire feeder breaks in 5 years, and you can't get any parts, you're going to have a $600 paper-weight. I only use my welder for hobby work too. I still wouldn't buy a HF machine if it's something I planned to keep for a long time.

I normally agree with that 100%, but these newer low end homeowner grade name brand welders are made in China too. I planned on getting the Lincoln TIG 200, but a friend had one that broke just out of warranty and the only repair on those things is a $1200 board on a $1,600 welder. That tells me that the Lincoln homeowner grade welders are disposable homeowner grade tools.

Lincoln builds most of their machines in Mexico - not China. A TIG machine is a little different than a MIG machine. An inverter TIG machine essentially has one component inside - the main board. A MIG machine has many more parts and much more to go wrong.

I've been there and done that with the cheap chinese welders. They ain't worth it in the long run.

 

[katit]

Small report. Cee Kay classes don't work out. They cancelled first one (no one except me interested) and next one so far just me but they will cancel if no one else shows up..

Today is tax-free shopping and sale on this unit:
https://www.harborfreight.com/OmniP...iODc5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p ZCI6IjEyMTA2In0=

I may just get it, I can always returns if I don't use it..

 

[anndel]

If you can, take a class. They'll introduce you to welding types- stick, mig, tig, gas, etc., and you choose what's right for you and your tasks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Likely you will get a MIG. Spend the money and get one that will run on either 120V or 240V. Also make sure it is "gas capable".

 

[Aaron_W]

Small report. Cee Kay classes don't work out. They cancelled first one (no one except me interested) and next one so far just me but they will cancel if no one else shows up..

Today is tax-free shopping and sale on this unit:
https://www.harborfreight.com/OmniP...iODc5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p ZCI6IjEyMTA2In0=

I may just get it, I can always returns if I don't use it..

If you decide to go with an offbrand, and based on price I can completely understand that, Everlast seems to have a lot of fans. They have some machines in the roughly the same price range as HF, but a 5 year warranty vs 1 year and you are dealing directly with the manufacturer / supplier vs HF who may be selling a completely different unit by then.

Everlast

I've seen some positive comments about that HF welder so it may be fine. I'd personally have a hard time paying nearly $1000 for something from HF.



Have you checked with your local welding supply? Mine has treated me quite well. It seems that the manufacturers set bottom prices but they may give you a significant discount on the more expensive accessories like helmet, welding jacket, tanks etc.

Mine was selling the welder at the same price as large online sellers and gave me some pretty sizable discounts on the other stuff.

If Cee Kay is your local supplier, maybe do a little horse trading, offer to buy the welder if
they will put on the class even if you are the only one who signs up. maybe they've got an employee who would trade a 12 pack for a few hours of instruction.



Also look for manufacturer rebates, I know Miller has them quite often, not sure about Lincoln.

Hobart sells reconditioned welders direct, which can save you some money. No 210s at the moment, but when they have them, they are less than $800. They have some of the 120v 140s for $439.

Reconditioned Hobart welders

 

[katit]

If Cee Kay is your local supplier, maybe do a little horse trading, offer to buy the welder if
they will put on the class even if you are the only one who signs up. maybe they've got an employee who would trade a 12 pack for a few hours of instruction.

Well. They cancelled 2nd session (not enough people). I talked to person and yes, it's free if I buy from them. But I need to first get into session which will actually happen. They sell Lincoln, Miller, ESAB. I didn't ask about prices, need to come in and check them out.

On positive note, I found local guy on CL who is willing to teach amongst other things. I think this is my best bet and I'm going to do that first.

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/d/valley-park-bills-shop-welding/6948098155.html

The more I look into all of the videos and read up - the more I feel like I want to do TIG/stick. If I become good - I can do stick welding everywhere around a hose easy, no gas, no wire. And I do want to do TIG for my car projects as those will be more delicate..

 

[ZRX61]

On positive note, I found local guy on CL who is willing to teach amongst other things. I think this is my best bet and I'm going to do that first.

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/d/valley-park-bills-shop-welding/6948098155.html

Looks like you'll be getting a religious lesson at the same time..

 

[katit]

Looks like you'll be getting a religious lesson at the same time..

It's OK, not a problem with me

Ordered previously suggested Jackson 46138 hood and pair of Tillman MIG gloves. Now at least I have personal safety equipment

I also have almost full cow hide remaining from my upholstery project. Will make myself nice apron

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I hope the weld on the right is his. Otherwise I would probably steer clear. Looks like someone capable of sticking things together, but I don't know that those are "teacher grade." Just because a college student can do calculus doesn't mean they're qualified to teach it. I hope it works well if you do go that route.

Apologies to future readers for the dead image, too lazy to upload.

 

[bczygan]

You'll be running MIG beads within 15 minutes. Had a friend who only used stick for years, then he finally decided to buy a small Miller, from the way he raved about it you'd think he had discovered the cure for cancer.


Pick up a piece of 6x6in 1/2in plate & just run beads. First run them parallel until it's covered, then go 90deg to that.. keep going until your 1/2in plate becomes a piece of 2in plate. (this also works for Stick)



TIG is easier to pick up if you can already run an O/A rig. My kid learned to move a puddle around some thin plate with a O/A torch, no rods, just move the puddle.




My daughter turning a thin plate into a thicker plate when she was 9 with my MM210:


https://scontent-lax3-1.**.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1486794_10201945457870834_862305975_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeH7L5QwZ107wS06fqcz-DsZ1ixX6cGw1p78lm2P6auELfiQ7y2PC1f-cxJOHR3ejY7ncvu96a-INod1gl0w-n_eg50Ov4JG_vKBHmwNT2zU7A&_nc_oc=AQk395BF7-k_-za4HC9ie0BCu2RAl6lhPpyQW5h5c4r4IxgUUqfuxiVBG1Mz2jqj0CkLuI7eNI5M1qWkYUi-3Nal&_nc_pt=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.**&oh=df3394e040c6ef302a7fd3d42021d5a1&oe=5DACF6C9

Short sleeved shirt????????

Bill

 

[katit]

First welds! Not going to show stick welds though But I'm determined to get stick mastered. Now seeing how nice MIG can be I'm not even sure I need to even think about TIG

 

[Aaron_W]

First welds! Not going to show stick welds though But I'm determined to get stick mastered. Now seeing how nice MIG can be I'm not even sure I need to even think about TIG

Did you buy one of the HF welders?

I did stick in class, and by comparison the MIG is like using a hot glue gun.

TIG can do fine work, that MIG or stick is too hot for, or at least takes far more skill to do well.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

First welds! Not going to show stick welds though But I'm determined to get stick mastered. Now seeing how nice MIG can be I'm not even sure I need to even think about TIG

Tig has the advantage of penetration without the bead. Lots more options for weird situations.