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Welder options

mortimersnerd

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Oct 31, 2012
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14
I just sold my Lincoln SP-140T to fund an upgrade to 220V. I'm mostly fabricating parts for my 1971 Bronco (plate bumpers, rock sliders, etc.) and those will be 1/4" plate, with the occasional part if 3/8". I've currently got about $750 in the welder fund and am hoping to score a great Black Friday deal this week. Any suggestions about which units I should be looking at? I had decided to go with a reconditioned SP-180T ($600ish), but am now looking at the Hobart Handler 210 ($850ish) for the extra power. Local welding supply has a SP-180C for about $860, but I'd have to pay tax as well. I'm just fabbing parts for myself, so duty cycle isn't critical, but I don't want to have to upgrade again down the road. Any help is deeply appreciated, as I'm a bit of a noob.
 
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sberry

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The 210 hasa pinch more poop on the top end than the other 2, the difference between those is one has tap voltage which imo in this model is a super PLUS. This same machine has been used for a long time, even before how they figured out how to strech rating numbers in this class to the limit. The 180 T has a 5 peed in it I believe and with the 030 solid its design to run is as near perfect as it gets as well as simple, thin medium and thick, 3 settings.

All 3 good, I could go for another gear in the Hobart at upper mid range, perfect would be a 9 speed, maybe they have, havnt looked at real new ones, have an old one when they first come out, its not a deal breaker though and have a 20 yr old version of the red T.
 

sberry

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BTW, you are making a worthy upgrade here. First, you pick 3 good machines, there are others but all 3 have used they are fine. Second for some trading, buying selling going to end up with twice the machine for the effort. While feeders do work on 120V circuits its just a piss poor source to weld from especially from non inverters.

By changing voltage it will double the wattage output, can sizzle 030. You can turn 030 down too, I never change it, actually like bigger wire even on light sheet, it bridges poor fitup. In some cases can make heavier welds when needed, its not a 250 class but can do everything in auto light truck, home hobby/repair. I got half a dozen machines, to this day still use this for about 95% of my jobs, its so easy.

It has a niche I would replace if it died tomorrow. I have 2 benches, one with a vise, this is its home, it reaches either, on occasion it will get moved to car hoist. Its a rare day I havnt used it in last 20 or more years, it really worked hard when we first buy it. Had to oil fan twice and replace one switch that was reasonable, the tap, it was about 40$ or so back 10 yrs. Thousands and thousands and thousands of times, I tried to figure out an estimate, be neat to have a clicker/timer on all those years, I bet well over 20 thousand cycles, several thousand hrs of run time. mid hundred hrs of arc on.

It cost 600 back then, been worth multiple times its cost, 25 yrs later still cost not much more than that and is still as good of machine. Small wire feeders in this class are a real bargain.
 

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BD1

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I'd go for the MIller 211. Dual voltage but more money. There has been numerous post about it.
 

bobcatdan

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Hobart 210 has dual voltage also. This such a nice feature. A lot od small stuff, 110 will easily handle and you still have a 220 for the big jobs.
 

pipsters

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The MM211 on ebay is around $1100. I have my eye on that one. I think I will eventually get it, just need to put together a list of everything I need to get started, and start working some overtime...

Hobart vs Miller at that point, not sure if the MM211 is worth the premium over the Hobart 210 or not.
 

volaredon

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I have a Millermatic 185 I bought new in 1997 same machine is now the MM 210; Miller and hobart are the same company (Illinois Tool Works)
I burnt up 3 lesser machines before I learned the lesson about not being able to afford "cheap" tools. I love this miller In 15 years a few tips, cones, and 1 replaced liner that's it. No burnt out transformer like the Astro's and Century i had prior (miller makes the best beer too, think about that best welder machines and best beer!)
 
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mortimersnerd

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From asking around it looks like Millers and Lincolns tend to have more features than the Hobarts and are better built. As I've been shopping around I'm hearing stories about Hobarts doing things like melting switches and contacts at the outer limits of their duty cycle. Just looking inside them, there is a visible difference in build quality. Metal parts in the higher end welders are better finished, and more parts tend to be metal. Not knocking the Hobarts, they look like good bang for the buck for light duty home use. I may still that route, but am trying (only partially successfully) to rationalize a Miller 211 over a Lincoln Power Mig 180C.
 
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sberry

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Many of the pieces are shared by white and blue, maybe some better finish on some non critical stuff I don't know but the Hobart works just as good, I have never seen one burnt up. I see a dew forum threads especially on their factory sites about repairs but they all got it.
 

sberry

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White and blue are ITW companies, if they source a part its from one of their other subs. Lets say (not sure howmany they make of each model) they need 6 inches of a common hose or a common part that can be used across 3 models or any number of other things it might get used for over dozens and dozens of models, you figure they cheap this 6 inches just for this job? Same with a lot of other parts, transformers, switches all that. Most of the pieces are "picked" off their own shelves. The only model that is exactly the same is the AC/DC Stickmate and the Tbolt, exact machine, different jacket and slightly different market with different sales price, you pay 100 bonus for blue. My HH came with Miller gun

We looked at some fridges, same base model, exact same chassis, one 400 and one 900 with different jacket and icemaker. They didnt make the operating part any "better". Some lines even price same parts different. People would be surprised on some items,, some car parts, 3 different price levels depending on the package its put in yet people will swear up and down by one. We used to package under a couple brands, have heard it all.

With some things depending on quanity it isnt worth it to make it cheaper, some companies market all 3 lines. Go to Walmart and look at hand can openers, there is about 6 or 8, one of the best is 2$ ant the expensive is 7 which is the exact same init with a brand plastic on the handle,,, so if you buy brand the vendor makes out like a fat rat, the deal for the consumer is in the 2 dollar and all the ones in the middle price range were inferior, customer shops up a class by price and really takes it.

Thje cost of raw materials being only a couple cents different, the cheap "commodity" wasnt fooled with to make it cheaper, another line, new dies, another crew, more inventory, instead of making it 2 cents less they focus on selling a few at 7$. Many wheel brgs in cars like this anymore. You can reaqlly tell when shopping net, white box, house brANnd like Napa or Auto value or brand name,,, all 3 made in china, one part number off on the package 45$, 90, 120$, part comes off the same line. After all,,,,, I wouldnt want to be a cheap sucker and put that 45$ one in my Cadillac,,, I will spend up and get the Napa,, ha I might not buy the top which is only 10% of the sales or buy the bottom which is 10% to say avg shopper so I go for the 90 and Napa makes 40 + extra for tossing it in their own box.
 

sberry

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Take a windshield wiper, bottom of the barrel 6 dollars, a good one 9 and top of the line 35, look the same except for some little gimick or logo. Vendor pays about a buck more for the fancy one. Every time a counterman sells one ching. I tried a couple, didnt work as good, complained and they rush right out and stick a cheap one on,,, sorry,,, ya, they replace it with 2 they spend and still get to keep 30, I should have got money back and bought 4 new.
 

nmk_61802

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Mar 6, 2008
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Hobart 210 has dual voltage also. This such a nice feature. A lot od small stuff, 110 will easily handle and you still have a 220 for the big jobs.

The MM211 on ebay is around $1100. I have my eye on that one. I think I will eventually get it, just need to put together a list of everything I need to get started, and start working some overtime...

Hobart vs Miller at that point, not sure if the MM211 is worth the premium over the Hobart 210 or not.

Hobart MVP210 is almost the same thing as the MM211. I got one at Farm & Fleet for $750 with their quarterly $100 off sale. Usually stores like Tractor Supply or Rural King offer the same deal if Farm & Fleet is not a local franchise to you.

http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/678611-hobart-handler-210mvp-mig-welder.html
 

Seb650R

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Everything I have read says the Hobarts are great welders. There are a few features exclusive to the 211 though. It has autoset features. It also has an infinitely adjustable voltage tap. This will allow you to better dial in the setting to lay down the perfect bead. This may not be crucial for everyone, but its nice to have.

The wonderful thing about the Hobart 210 and the MM211 is the MVP. Nothing quite as beautiful as being able to run 220 when you have access and 110 when you don't. Perhaps this doesn't seem like an asset now, but you never know.

Either machine will serve you well and I have never heard anyone speak poorly about either.
 

sberry

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The torx thread is a poster for that especially since they made by contractors for different venues, China or USA, sold upder all kinds of labels, anyone figure a guy in china is sitting there pinching the recipie as they fly by according to the box they go in. Thats why anymore they are all so good. The secret isnt that its cheaper or better, its they are the same, Sure you can get a great warranty from snappy on bit inserts, they bought a box for a quarter a pice to toss in on tyhe rare occasion the avg guy breaks one,,, in a tool you paid 25$ for. If a guy looks the off brand at auto parts is warranted too, you pay 5 bucks, same game, maybe they got to give up 50 cents on occasion.
 

sberry

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Heck, they probably want to warrant a Kobalt wrench even less, the sales price was 1/4 the expensive one. Even if it cost twice to make,,, which I doubt you dont pay twice the price but 5 times as much.
 

TF.120

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Sep 26, 2012
Messages
32
The Hobart 210 is a great little welder using a lot of the same miller parts just without some of the bells and whistles for a lot less money. If i was in your shoes just fabbing at home id go with the Hobart. Auto set is not worth 250 dollars, i never found it useful myself.
 

Voi

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Lincoln has a deal going on for their 180 dual that I think ends this month. Pretty sure it's $869 after $100 rebate or for $969 you can get the same welder plus a package of goodies worth $250. I think there was a bag, gloves, shirt, cap and a two-sensor helmet.

I believe the 180 Dual has continuous voltage adjustment unlike the tapped 180 you can get at Lowes, etc.

I think the 180 Dual is rated at 130 amps at 30% duty cycle. About 20 amps less than the MM 211.

I'm in a similar boat as you and am leaning towards the MM 211 over the 180 Dual and Hobart 210. I'm not overly concerned with autoset but am intrigued to try it. And while I prefer the extra metal parts in the drive mechanism of the Miller, that is also not a big concern. I do feel like I want continuous vs tapped voltage adjustment.

So for me it narrowed down to (I think) the Miller and the Lincoln.

You might see if there are other deals from Lincoln for other models.
 
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mortimersnerd

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Oct 31, 2012
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I've looked at the 180 Dual and planned to go with the Power Mig 180C over that one. The internals of the Dual are comparable to the SP-180T-Good, but not as heavy duty as the 180C. It also has a little bit shorter duty cycle than the 180C, not that that's likely to matter much. My LWS quoted my $808, so they're also cheaper than the duals. If the 110v doesn't matter to you, the 180C might be a great option.

I don't think the Hobarts are as well made as the Millers or Lincolns (thats sort of the point-they're built to a cheaper price point). When looking inside the fit and finish is clearly better on the Millers. I don't really care about the autoset. I never had problems finding a good setting on my Lincoln 140T. It's as simply as reading the chart and making a small adjustment or two from there. I didn't see a big difference with the tapped voltage, either, but I'm no expert. I suspect I'll like the finer control once I have it. All of that said, I just want to buy this once. The price difference between the Hobart 210MVP and the Miller 211 is only about $240. I can get it serviced anywhere and I know it'll be reliable. I've largely decided on a MM211 as well since I want to keep this for a very long time. The extra power in the MM211 is also worth a small premium for me over the Lincoln Dual since I want to be able to weld to the frame of my truck and know it's solid.
 

Voi

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I'd also look at the 180C over the dual if dual voltage didn't matter to me. In my case I don't have 230V in my shop yet but I do want to continue practicing my welding without having to borrow my friends MM 135. And I do like the concept of dual voltage in general.

For what it is worth, the real price price difference between the Hobart 210 and Millermatic 211 in my area is $180. Local welding supply has the Miller for $1075. And the cheapest local price on the Hobart is $895, although that may change on Black Friday. Since that welding shop is where I'll be getting tanks and gas and they do service on Miller (and Lincoln for that matter) it's really a no brainer for me.

Now the rebate offer on the Lincoln's is still causing some paralysis by analysis at the moment. Same shop carries Lincoln.
 

sberry

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There are or could be occasions a guy had to move a machine, I would say its over estimated, mine hasnt moved out of the shop in years, no need for dual v. I would have bought this machine for its power, its ability to sizzle 030 wire.

Not every feeder has been an award winner but the ones you are looking at are. If the price was right the 180 wouldnt scare me. Either the C or the T, both very very good. The taps are spot on with the T with 030, hard to miss.
 
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