Welder Power Connection (which type?)

[aka Larry]

I'm in the process of wiring my new shop (as you might have gathered from all my stupid questions!) and I'm planning for a future 230V welder. I have a Lincoln 140 now, but when I can afford afford it, I'm planning to purchase a Hobart Handler 190.

My question is which style of 230V plug does it use? I couldn't find a pic on-line, and since I know someone here has this same welder, I thought maybe you coud show me which outlet to buy.

Thanks!

 

[antinym]

I have the HH 187 and it has a Nema 6-50 plug on it.
the plug should be listed on the hobart page. I'd look it up for you, but i'm way too lazy.

 

[Amish Elegance]

Handler 210 here. I used the 6-50 receptacle.

 

[csp]

Nema 6-50 on mine as well.

 

[pattenp]

Just be aware if you use a 6-50 outlet you need to size the circuit as 50A. Don't put a 6-50 outlet on a 30A circuit.

Edit: Based on the specs the Hobart Handler 190 only needs a 30A circuit. If you do a 30A circuit then use a 6-30 plug.

 

[aka Larry]

Just be aware if you use a 6-50 outlet you need to size the circuit as 50A. Don't put a 6-50 outlet on a 30A circuit.

Edit: Based on the specs the Hobart Handler 190 only needs a 30A circuit. If you do a 30A circuit then use a 6-30 plug.

OK, I apologize for being lazy and not going to the Hobart website to find an answer.

According to the owner's manual it does use a NEMA 6-50 receptacle, which begs the question why since it's a 30A unit?

FYI, I have planned for #10 THHN wire and a 30A breaker to accomodate the units requirements I had found prior.

 

[lmwilco1]

Every welder I have except for the TIG uses the NEMA 6-50 outlet so I think it seems to be the standard.

Louis

 

[pattenp]

Good question. The problem is putting a 6-50 outlet on a 30A circuit is mis-identifying the load capacity of the circuit. It would be different if the welder was hardwired. Someone in the future could plug in an appliance that takes more than 30A thinking it was a 50A circuit. If you use the 6-50 outlet I would wire it as a 50A circuit.

OK, I apologize for being lazy and not going to the Hobart website to find an answer.

According to the owner's manual it does use a NEMA 6-50 receptacle, which begs the question why since it's a 30A unit?

FYI, I have planned for #10 THHN wire and a 30A breaker to accomodate the units requirements I had found prior.

 

[aka Larry]

Someone in the future could plug in an appliance that takes more than 30A thinking it was a 50A circuit.

I thought that was what the breaker was for...overload protection.

Wiring it for 50A will require #8 wire and another conduit run as well.

 

[lametec]

Just label the outlet as "Welder only".

If you're worried about "the next guy", just take off the outlet box when you move, and install a junction box in its place.

 

[pattenp]

I may be wrong but I believe putting a 6-50 outlet on a 30A circuit is a NEC violation. I'm sure some who knows for sure will chime in.

Edit: Well what's obvious is it's a NEC violation to put a 6-30R on a 50A circuit. But the other way around must be okay.

 

[Falcon67]

I'd put the matching outlet, fuse at 30A and go on. The issue I could see is someone plugging in 50A worth of welder, but then you should get a trip. If the "next guy" has any smarts, when they open the box to see WTF with the breaker and cable, they should be able to see that it's wired #10/30A and not #8/50A.

FWIW - I'd be inclined to spend a little more for the 210 MVP and have dual voltage capability.

 

[pattenp]

Another bit of info that may apply. I see #8 being mentioned for 50A, but if you use NM-B type wire to serve the outlet it's limited to 40A. That's my understanding unless there is an exception to the 60 degree rule for this application.

 

[sberry]

Its machine dependant, this Hobast 190 can be installed on circuits to 50A hence the plug. Nothing wrong with a 10/30 circuit, the 10 gives it all the help it can. You can breaker it to 50 if you want no real reason to unless you might want to use it for occasional use with other machine but if its home for the little guy then why go over 30?

 

[sberry]

I may be wrong but I believe putting a 6-50 outlet on a 30A circuit is a NEC violation. I'm sure some who knows for sure will chime in.

Edit: Well what's obvious is it's a NEC violation to put a 6-30R on a 50A circuit. But the other way around must be okay.

Yes, some cases allow for number 12 wire with 50A.

 

[pattenp]

I thought the circuit has to be hardwired to the equipment to be able to use reduced wire sizes. That's why I got concerned with putting an outlet on such a wired circuit because anything could be plugged to it.

Yes, some cases allow for number 12 wire with 50A.

 

[offroadsteve]

Because this is a manually operated welding machine, you are allowed to undersize the conductors based on the aperage requirements and duty cycle of the welding machine(NEC Section 630.31). So long as you label the outlet as "welder use only" (sharpie on the faceplate is fine), you can use the 6-50 receptacle with 10 awg wire and a 30A circuit breaker. Like Sberry said, you could probably get away with 12 awg wire for that machine, but 10 awg is not that big a deal.

The 6-50 plug is the unofficial "welder" plug for most single phase 240V machines, no matter the actual current requirements of the machine.

 

[sberry]

Right, This machine can be used on circuits to 50A There are cases multiple units could be connected to the same circuit, 2 machines, 12 or better (for each machine) at 50A. The 190 can be wired with 14 provided its single circuit in pipe and breaker no more than 30,,, no one really thinks this is a good idea. It comes with a 12 cord.

 

[EOC_Jason]

According to the owner's manual it does use a NEMA 6-50 receptacle, which begs the question why since it's a 30A unit?

The 50 & 60 amps plugs seem to be the most common for welders. For people that have a stick, mig, and tig it doesn't really make sense to have 3 different plug types...

I'm sure also they probably get a better discount just ordering a few sizes of plugs rather than trying to size each model to their own.

 

[SgtRauksauff]

I like a 30A twist-lock outlet. Chop the original off the welder, and put the twist-lock in its place. Do the same for an extension cord if you need to drag the welder out to the driveway for some reason...

I always found the 6-50 that came with the welder a gigantic PITA to plug and unplug. The blades of the plug were always clamped really well by the outlet, and it just didn't work so well for me. granted, the outlet was in one corner of the garage, and I had to weld on the other side a lot, and lots of un/plugging was needed. If you're not going to move it much, if at all, I'd stay with the OEM stuff.

 

[taumac]

i use a one of those 6-50 receptacle. I wired it with a 220 circuit with a 50amp stove plug but just be safe I used a 40 amp breaker even though wire was rated for 50 amps. Me and friend wired all 3 welders and plamsa wire all with the same plug so we can use any 4 of them at either house. I never knew there was a issue with plug rated for 50 amps and a 30 amp welder. I would see a issue if you undersized it.

 

[sberry]

Leave the factory plugs alone, nothing ruins the value of a machine like cutting it off and putting something non standard on. If your outlet is in the far corner maybe moving or adding would be a good solution, taKes me about 5 minutes to decide to run another circuit.

 

[pattenp]

I thought that theory applied to classic cars. How about racing stickers stuck all over your welder?

Leave the factory plugs alone, nothing ruins the value of a machine like cutting it off and putting something non standard on. If your outlet is in the far corner maybe moving or adding would be a good solution, taKes me about 5 minutes to decide to run another circuit.