I am looking to get into welding and would like to install and outlet for my welder. I would like to start of with a 110v welder, so my thoughts where run No.4 AWG or No.6 AWG wire and an 30 amp outlet and once I am ready to upgrade to a 220V I would replace the 30 amp breaker and outlet with a 50 amp breaker and outlet. Is a reasonable idea, would I have any issues?
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Welder wire and outlet question
- Thread starter 2quiker
- Start date
sberry
Banned
If I wanted or had to weld from 120v it would pretty much be because it's a machine I had. A dedicated 20 or available service for special tools like welder is a good thing. If I was headed somewhere with this would use a number 10 or better and for modern welders is beyond suffecient for anything g not 250 class heavy mig. Can be breaker at 50 for some.
225 class dc stick inverter is 43A inverters make it more proportional bet it runs 1/8 lo hy toasty on 30. Maxstar run it on 20 240 easy.
225 class dc stick inverter is 43A inverters make it more proportional bet it runs 1/8 lo hy toasty on 30. Maxstar run it on 20 240 easy.
sberry
Banned
If I was buying machines today might consider this in some sense. Old **** is and can be good but some of the new has some great features including low power demands.
sberry
Banned
If I was messing much with full size wire would likely hook it to another panel local to my work and have outlets both voltage. Go right around any existing wire with it make it breaker to recept simple.
20 AMP 10AWG wiring and plug is good enough for most 120V welders many but not all of the 20AMP 120V commercial plugs will take a 10AWG...... anything higher you should go up to a 30AMP 240V 10 AWG. Unless you are getting those buzz box tomb stone typle welders... I think those requires 50AMP 240Vs .... not sure.
Like others have said, choose the welder you "think" you wanted to buy.... the manual will give you the AC input voltage / amperage requirements ... Almost all reputable brand welder will have that... Don't confuse yourself with the Welding AMP in the outside box of the welder....
Like others have said, choose the welder you "think" you wanted to buy.... the manual will give you the AC input voltage / amperage requirements ... Almost all reputable brand welder will have that... Don't confuse yourself with the Welding AMP in the outside box of the welder....
sberry
Banned
The Tombstones take a 10 cable/50A. Can use 12 single circuit in pipe @ 50A.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
#4 is overkill and a waste of money for a 50a welder circuit.
nadogail
Well-known member
My AC/DC Hobart Stickmate is fed with #6 from a 50 Amp Breaker. I built the system to exceed the minimum requirements.
sberry
Banned
4 for another panel if a guy wanted to plasma cut with heavier comp and cutter. Way more than most hobby types can do.
A #10 will run 90% of the welders out there. Run #8 if you want to cover ever option. Anything more (#6 or #4) is a waste.
I've never seen a 120v welder that takes a 30A outlet. Kind of eliminates the the only good thing about a 120v welder, no dedicated circuit/use it anywhere.
I've never seen a 120v welder that takes a 30A outlet. Kind of eliminates the the only good thing about a 120v welder, no dedicated circuit/use it anywhere.
sberry
Banned
My AC/DC Hobart Stickmate is fed with #6 from a 50 Amp Breaker. I built the system to exceed the minimum requirements.
You did, the minimum was 12. You did 3 sizes better.
Since I have my wall open because i installed a window and not for sure which welder I am going with can I install conduit in side the wall and then when I am ready i can run #8 THWN through the conduit, if so what size of conduit? I have 2x4 garage walls.
I am considering doing 20 amp after your guys replies 2 poll but not for sure.
I am considering doing 20 amp after your guys replies 2 poll but not for sure.
sberry
Banned
Yo0u can do that but if you know where you want it run a number 8 cable and call it a day. Its a size bigger than a guy that isnt outright running a welding shop needs.
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Yo0u can do that but if you know where you want it run a number 8 cable and call it a day. Its a size bigger than a guy that isnt outright running a welding shop needs.
ya that's what i will do, I will put in #8 and 3/4" conduit.
sberry
Banned
Conduit is the best but might be real work in a residential wall? Maybe not too? At home it wouldnt bother me to run a cable either. While I was fuggin around might consider a run for a compressor. If I was gonna pipe really would run a pipe for each and use any free wire I might have and even buy some 10 for both circuits. I use 1/2 and screw the recept right in a deep 2x4 box. If I thought I was gonna rig a pottery kiln or some kind of oven on it might do something different.
If I had 3/4 in my hot little hand that doesnt bother me, I got 2 circuits with 6 in case I ever needed them. Got 4 more 10 wire. Only time I needed more than 10 is on a 300 synch, I got a circuit for it. I wouldnt have it in a home shop. I got the power, I got the forklift, I got the tech to fix it, I got it for 100$ and I had some torch parts.
If I had 3/4 in my hot little hand that doesnt bother me, I got 2 circuits with 6 in case I ever needed them. Got 4 more 10 wire. Only time I needed more than 10 is on a 300 synch, I got a circuit for it. I wouldnt have it in a home shop. I got the power, I got the forklift, I got the tech to fix it, I got it for 100$ and I had some torch parts.
sberry
Banned
I looked at a spec for a 200 the other day,,, 16 amps. maybe less, ****. They allow 48 ft 14 and I wired it 45 ft MC12. He got a 175 Hobart too.
I bet the new 200Stickmate uses the old 12 cord?
I bet the new 200Stickmate uses the old 12 cord?
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sberry
Banned
The AC buzzer is 48A, 75 ft, 12 single circuit in pipe. It works, shorter works but at 50 ft or so a 10 wire drops 3 or 4V, maybe a little less depending on electrode, 12 wire 12-15V, little loss, never notice on a 10, a bit on a 12. Its about 2 on 8,,, not a huge leap from 8 to 10 in performance and never make the savings on the wire cost back in decades.
We need a crazed engineer to calculate how many arc hours it would take to save 5$ in electric between the 2 wires at 40A? Ha Shorten the circuit to 30 ft and run the math again. You could half the length which would save wire but 1/2 the savings too. Main thing is heavier wire makes for a better longer lasting connection.
We need a crazed engineer to calculate how many arc hours it would take to save 5$ in electric between the 2 wires at 40A? Ha Shorten the circuit to 30 ft and run the math again. You could half the length which would save wire but 1/2 the savings too. Main thing is heavier wire makes for a better longer lasting connection.
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Conduit is the best but might be real work in a residential wall? Maybe not too? At home it wouldnt bother me to run a cable either. While I was fuggin around might consider a run for a compressor. If I was gonna pipe really would run a pipe for each and use any free wire I might have and even buy some 10 for both circuits. I use 1/2 and screw the recept right in a deep 2x4 box. If I thought I was gonna rig a pottery kiln or some kind of oven on it might do something different.
If I had 3/4 in my hot little hand that doesnt bother me, I got 2 circuits with 6 in case I ever needed them. Got 4 more 10 wire. Only time I needed more than 10 is on a 300 synch, I got a circuit for it. I wouldnt have it in a home shop. I got the power, I got the forklift, I got the tech to fix it, I got it for 100$ and I had some torch parts.
Can PVC conduit (scheduled 40) be ran in walls (residential with insulation), I have read that it can't but I can't find anything on the actual code. If not what would be be used just straight EMT tubing? What type of junction box would be recommended, metal or plastic?
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Can PVC conduit (scheduled 40) be ran in walls (residential with insulation), I have read that it can't but I can't find anything on the actual code. If not what would be be used just straight EMT tubing? What type of junction box would be recommended, metal or plastic?
Where are you reading this? Its not correct.
Definitey use plastic boxes otherwise you would have to bond the box.
Where are you reading this? Its not correct.
Definitey use plastic boxes otherwise you would have to bond the box.
I found a couple of forums that people stated you couldn't use PVC conduit inside res walls for running the wires. I was making sure I couldn't or couldn't.
sberry
Banned
If I was going to come up with a piping scheme it would be steel. Feeding thru a common residential wall it would be cable.
If I was hell bent on future proofing with this would buy enough 8 cable for a welder outlet and a wire for a 5 hp comp.
If I was hell bent on future proofing with this would buy enough 8 cable for a welder outlet and a wire for a 5 hp comp.
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I found a couple of forums that people stated you couldn't use PVC conduit inside res walls for running the wires. I was making sure I couldn't or couldn't.
If you want conduit in the wall run Smurf tube
nsula_country
Well-known member
My AC/DC Hobart Stickmate is fed with #6 from a 50 Amp Breaker. I built the system to exceed the minimum requirements.
I have the same welder. 2.3A at idle (fan) 47.5A at max output (235AC/160DC), I used #6. One day I may get a 300-400A machine and I am good, instead of pulling #10 out and pulling #6 in. Also, same circuit powers my 50A RV receptacle outside of building. #6 neutral also.
With this said, #10 on a 50A breaker "DEDICATED WELDING" circuit will run most hobby welders. Some of my hobbies are actually light industrial, so I tend to over engineer.
Some also say a 200A service is overkill for a 1 man shop...
CT
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If you want conduit in the wall run Smurf tube
Oh Ok, i think i might go that route. Plastic is easier to work with than metal.
strutaeng
Well-known member
Why don't you run a dedicated 120V 20A circuit and then also conduit? That way you start welding with 120V right away and don't spend extra money on wire until you need it. You can size it generously and then have room if you need to add more stuff, which is always the case.
As mentioned, a dedicated 120v 20A circuit is handy to have. You can run an air compressor later or small plasma cutter.
As mentioned, a dedicated 120v 20A circuit is handy to have. You can run an air compressor later or small plasma cutter.
sberry
Banned
A decent setup would have both voltages and a line dedicated to air comp. If I had the wall open as does the op would certainly put provisions in for a welder circuit if I thought I might want it. Some are short in residential garage, some extra is economical.
I was going to price some 4 ser alum for giggles. I think it would be legal on 10-50?
Easy to estimate when its cheap too.
I was going to price some 4 ser alum for giggles. I think it would be legal on 10-50?
Easy to estimate when its cheap too.
sberry
Banned
So people that don't install a 50 amp for welder instead install a double pole or single 20 amp breaker for their welder?
There are lots of 120V machines but I had to read it a couple times to get your drift. I was making the same point sort of, a real welder circuit is 240V with big enough wire. 4x the power. Same for air comp really. 5 hp being really common and sought after.